60 replies to this topic

[WC]

Can anyone recommend any non-Bond spy fiction that is would be a good read? I'm looking for something which isn't Cold War (so no John Le Carre) and isn't WWII either. I personally find Tom Clancy a bit dated so I want to avoid him if I can, and guys like Raymond Benson seem to do mostly Bond. I've read the Bourne Trilogy but haven't read the other Ludlum books. I want something modern day since the break up of the Soviet Union, and possibly political/military/techno - well, any kind of espionage thriller that is set post 1991.

I'm really stuck as to what to read, and I've trawled through hundreds of lists on Amazon and various book reviews. After a while my mind just goes numb and I can't think of any spy authors or novels.

Can anyone help?

Thanks

[Qwerty]

Tom Clancy/Raymond Benson, even if you want to avoid them, I did enjoy the Splinter Cell book which was published quite a while ago. Just throwing that suggestion out for everyone.

[TheSaint]

If you want the serious stuff, I have no suggestions but, if you want anything in the Bond vein, I'd recommend Donald Hamilton's Matt Helm series. Those are some good books. Not campy like the Dean Martin films(though I love them). Unfortunately, they are not in print but, worth tracking down.

[WC]

Thanks for the suggestions. I don't mind stuff in the Bond vein at all. I'm just looking to read stuff other than Bond, and some things fairly up to date.

Aren't some Tom Clancy books (the later ones) a bit of a mish-mash of his earlier stuff? I've read hundreds of bad reviews for "The Bear and the Dragon". What's that one "The Cardinal of the Kremlin" like? Any good? Oh, and isn't that "Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell" actually written by someone called David Michaels?

Any other suggestions? Please keep them coming. I'd like to get a list of different books I could choose from.

Thanks

Edited by Welshcat, 15 August 2005 - 02:23 AM.

[Bond_Bishop]

I think Tom Clancy writes very well. Cardinal is probably the best book of the ones I've read (I am going to read Rainbow Six now). I can also recommend Robert Ludlum's Jason Bourne books. And the swedish author Jan Guillou's Carl Hamilton books (I think you can find them on English if you search). Clive Cussler doesn't exactly writes spy fiction but he writes his Dirk Pitt novels like Fleming wrote his Bond novels. I haven't read any books by Frederick Forsythe but I have heard much good words about his book, especially about: "The Day of the Jackal".

[Syndicate]

Tom Clancy is one of those authors that does a lot of research before writing, he understands the CIA's Directorate Operation, Directorate of Intelligence, Directorate of Admin., the CIA Director's power and role in the intelligence community,when does the director brings someone along to brief the president, all the department heads's role and power, Special Operation Command, joint CIA and Army Special Forces operation, Naval Special Warfare, Senate Intelligence, House Intelligence, President's National Security Advior's power ansd role in meetings, FBI HRT, FBI Director's role and power, all the FBI's departments. Not only does he know those stuff he also knows and do research on the British Secret Intelligence Service, Secruity Service(the FBI's counterpart), the whole Brisish Special Operation system and their Intelligence community. Those are some of the stuff there are still alot more that Clancy knows and do research on, and other counties. He even understand the terms like Black Ops, HALO, and so on. John Le Carre is also a author that does a lot of research before writing and understands them.
But for those of you who don't want to read their novels try Vince Flynn's, Christopher Whitcomb a former FBI HRT sniper, before that a speech writer for a congressman. He join the FBI in his mid 20s in the 1980s. Try out for the HRT at 32 in 1991. I'm not into his stuff but maybe some of you might like it, try Stephen Coonts. Last of all try David Morrell's Brotherhood Of The Rose and Dale Brown's Act Of War.

Edited by Syndicate, 19 August 2005 - 07:33 AM.

[K1Bond007]

I think Tom Clancy writes very well. Cardinal is probably the best book of the ones I've read (I am going to read Rainbow Six now). I can also recommend Robert Ludlum's Jason Bourne books. And the swedish author Jan Guillou's Carl Hamilton books (I think you can find them on English if you search). Clive Cussler doesn't exactly writes spy fiction but he writes his Dirk Pitt novels like Fleming wrote his Bond novels. I haven't read any books by Frederick Forsythe but I have heard much good words about his book, especially about: "The Day of the Jackal".

Cardinal is good? I'm not objecting, but I tried to read that a while back and I thought it dragged. Actually I like Tom Clancy, but I think he's meticulous... about details that really don't always matter. Maybe it was just the start of the book, I don't know.

I'd go with Splinter Cell and pretty much anything by Robert Ludlum. I've always wanted to read some stuff by John le Carre (Cornwell), but I've never gotten around to it.

[spynovelfan]

Can anyone recommend any non-Bond spy fiction that is would be a good read? I'm looking for something which isn't Cold War (so no John Le Carre) and isn't WWII either. I personally find Tom Clancy a bit dated so I want to avoid him if I can, and guys like Raymond Benson seem to do mostly Bond. I've read the Bourne Trilogy but haven't read the other Ludlum books. I want something modern day since the break up of the Soviet Union, and possibly political/military/techno - well, any kind of espionage thriller that is set post 1991.

I'm really stuck as to what to read, and I've trawled through hundreds of lists on Amazon and various book reviews. After a while my mind just goes numb and I can't think of any spy authors or novels.

Can anyone help?

Thanks

I only really read spy thrillers set during the Cold War and earlier, so I can't help much, I'm afraid - I just prefer the stories where the agent can't simply call up his HQ on his satellite phone. However, I have read a few post-Soviet thrillers. I'd highly recommend QUILLER BALALAIKA by Adam Hall. Written in 1996, it's the last in a long-running series about a ruthless British agent, and deals with the Russian mafiya - click on the title for a synopsis and a brief excerpt. If you want an exciting thriller, Hall's your man. In my view, it's the best espionage series ever written. I've heard good things about Lee Child, Barry Eisler, David Morrell and Andrew Vachss over at my spy-thriller discussion group (address in my profile). It really depends on exactly what you're looking for. I think there is a lack of decent spy writers at the moment - crime seems to have taken over.

If you ever wanted a list of great Cold War spy novels, well then I might be more useful.

(Incidentally, 'David Michaels' is Raymond Benson.)

[Melanie]

Robert Littell - The Company: A Novel Of The CIA

Synopsis
Robert Littell does for the CIA what Mario Puzo did for the Mafia Robert Littell's The Company is an engrossing, multigenerational, wickedly nostalgic yet utterly entertaining and candid saga bringing to life, through a host of characters --historical and imagined - the nearly 50 years of this secretive and powerful organization. In a style intelligent and ironic, Littell tells it like it was: CIA agents fighting not only 'the good fight' against foreign enemies, but sometimes the bad one as well, with the ends justifying such means as CIA-organized assassinations, covert wars, kidnappings, and toppling of legitimate governments. Behind every manoeuvre and counter-manoeuvre, though, one question spans the length of the book...Who is the mole within the CIA? The Company - an astonishing novel that captures the life and death struggle of an entire generation of CIA operatives during a long Cold War.

[Trident]

I can recommend some of the names above: Robert Littell is more in the realistic branch of spy writers, although some of his older novels have a kind surrealistic feel to them.

Jan Guillou wrote some good novels about the Swedish agent Coq Rouge. Some feature fantastic action and suspense.

Adam Hall has written tremedous stuff and I'm still thankfull for the recommendation. Not as over the top as some Bond novels, yet not completely in the pen-pushing tradition.

Clancy knows his stuff about the US and British Services extremely well. Unfortunatly he shows this knowledge in every single novel of his on at least 300 pages. That takes a bit off his momentum and doesn't help the plot developing IMHO. On the other hand you get the feeling, things could really happen exactly the way he describes. It depends, whether you want this over-realistic feeling or are into a more novel-style. Sometimes I like his books very much. Only RAINBOW comes across a thiny little bit unrealistic. A multi-national counter-terrorist unit operating without the slightest bureaucratic problem in several European countrys on short notice is completely ridiculous. But apart from that it was a fine read. Not my favourite, but a good one.

Another one I can recommend is Daniel Silva. He is somewhere in between the adventurous Fleming style and the realistic but sometimes dull leCarre school. I can recommend "The Mark of the Assassin", "The Marching Season" and "The Kill Artist". The first two are about a CIA agent, the third about a Mossad killer that has settled down under cover but is reactivated time after time by his old boss.

I didn't know that Andrew Vachss wrote spy fiction? I stopped reading his novels, which were extremely well written page turners, about the time my daughter was born and I couldn't stand the thaught of child abuse, which was his main theme back then. Did he change his topic? I must take a look at him then again!

Edited by Trident, 18 August 2005 - 05:37 AM.

[spynovelfan]

No, you're right - Vachss writes crime thrillers. He has been recommended several times in the forum I run - the discussion can range across genres - and he's sometime compared to Adam Hall (and I believe has spoken highly of the Quiller series), which is why he came to mind.

I've heard a lot of good stuff about Silva, too.

[Trident]

Yes, Vachss is a frighteningly good writer. He writes hard boiled novels that make the world of "Pulp Fiction" seem like a kids playground. The bad guys in his novels are really scary. No, forget that. I mean, they are SCARY!

He has one main-theme in his works and that is child-abuse. He has worked as a lawer in cases of child-abuse and most of the detail he writes about is accurate. And this accuracy shows in his novels and makes the reader cringe under the plot. I've read pretty much stuff in my time but I have to say that I stopped reading Vachss cause I couldn't stand his prose any more. Not because it wasn't good, but because this guy writes straight from hell.

I'm a fan of Silva and was very fond of the books mentioned above. He seems to have settled into writing about the Mossad agent Gabriel Allon. His last books lack a bit of the spirit of his earlier works, but are still a good read. I haven't read his latest "Prince of Fire". I've read somewhere on the net that his Allon series is to be adapted for the screen. Don't know any details about it yet. Also I havn't read his first book yet, "The unlikely Spy". I think it is set in WWII. Some day I will catch up on that one.

Edited by Trident, 17 August 2005 - 08:12 PM.

[spynovelfan]

That's pretty much what I've heard about him, too, Trident. I think I'm too much of a wuss to read him!

Agree with most of what you've written here, incidentally, of the writers I'm familiar with.

[hcmv007]

Clancy-Hunt For Red October, Teeth of the Tiger, Clear and Present Danger

Ludlum-The Bourne Trilogy

[WC]

Thanks for the further suggestions.

Which would be the best Tom Clancy to read if I want a modern working knowledge of the CIA? Do some of his older stuff still hold up or has stuff in his novels changed since the end of the Cold War?

Not too sure why people are recommending Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell" in the same breath though. It's not actually written by Clancy but by David Michaels, just like the new "Robert Ludlum's The Bourne Legacy" is actually by someone else (since Ludlum is dead).

I'll have to check out some of the other authors on Amazon. Is this Robert Littell mostly a Cold War author?

[K1Bond007]

Not too sure why people are recommending Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell" in the same breath though. It's not actually written by Clancy but by David Michaels, just like the new "Robert Ludlum's The Bourne Legacy" is actually by someone else (since Ludlum is dead).

Mostly because this is a James Bond forum and David Michaels = Raymond Benson. It's also a pretty decent novel (told in the first-person). I don't think anyone has stated it was written by Tom Clancy. The title just so happens to be Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell, just like all the games (e.g. "Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory") and all his other spinoffs such as Op-Center, Power Plays, and Net Force.

[Bond_Bishop]

Anyone read John le Carre's novels? I would try out one. "The Spy who came in from the cold" looks interesting. Which should I begin with?

[spynovelfan]

Anyone read John le Carre's novels? I would try out one. "The Spy who came in from the cold" looks interesting. Which should I begin with?

That one's the best, in my opinion.

Welshcat, yes, Littell is basically a Cold War author. I get the impression you're looking for something really up-to-the-minute. You may want to check out Barry Eisler's 'Rain' series, about an American-Japanese assassin, I believe. Haven't read them, but have heard they're good. Here's a taster. As for the Clancy-style up-to-the-minute techno thriller stuff, you may want to check out the likes of Stephen Hunter, Dale Brown and Patrick Robinson. Lots of details about planes and boats. I can't vouch for them, though, as I've never read them - but they seem to be the market-leaders.

[FLEMINGFAN]

As a throwback to the Fleming/Bond era, and without any of the Cold War politics, see if you can find any of the "Charles Hood" books written by James Mayo. The first, and best, is titled HAMMERHEAD, and there were five others after that. The adventures flow pretty easily and he has a nice, mature style of writing that one wishes a Benson or Gardner could achieve.

However, they may be difficult to find, though they were printed in both hardcover and paperback and ran from 1964 to 1971.

Also, per 'TheSaint', any of the 27 Matt Helm books were always a good read, and the earlier ones were quite brutal and would be quite shocking to anyone that just followed the films. They would make an interesting film series (which I think has just been re-optioned on).

[Loomis]

All the Clancys I've tried to read bored me silly, with the notable exception of "The Sum of All Fears", which may well be the most exciting and unputdownable thriller I've ever read. The film version is abysmal, though.

I also recommend "The Human Factor" by Graham Greene.

[spynovelfan]

Nice picks, FLEMINGFAN, and I could add a few more in that vein. I somehow get the feeling that Welshcat's looking for very up-to-date stuff, though - he says he finds Clancy dated. The Hood adventures may not feature Cold War politics overtly in the plots, but they were written during the Cold War and are absolutely a *part* of the Cold War, in that they feature a ruthless and suave British agent driving fast cars, bedding beautiful women and battling nasty foreign baddies. I seem to remember HAMMERHEAD features some kind of religious cult and bevies of beautiful women. I'm quite interested in Mayo, because he was apparently a friend of Fleming's. I think you could fairly easily change the name 'Charles Hood' to 'James Bond' and a few minor details in some of those novels and you'd think you were reading Fleming, or at least a pretty damn good continuation. He knows his art, and all that. LET SLEEPING GIRLS LIE opens with a very Flemingesque scene, in which a woman laughs herself to death in a hotel lobby. And, of course, he titled one of the books SHAMELADY, which as I'm sure you know was Fleming's original name for Goldeneye.

The Helms were reoptioned a couple of years ago, but they seem to be in development hell. Great thrillers, though. I interviewed Donald Hamilton on the phone a couple of years back - the article is the last post in this thread, and mentions another couple of writers from that period you may enjoy.

[hcmv007]

Thanks for the further suggestions.

Which would be the best Tom Clancy to read if I want a modern working knowledge of the CIA? Do some of his older stuff still hold up or has stuff in his novels changed since the end of the Cold War?

Teeth of the Tiger is pretty new, check it out. It is long, but it is good.

[Bond_Bishop]

Rainbow Six I think is very excellent.

[Lazenby880]

Welshcat, yes, Littell is basically a Cold War author. I get the impression you're looking for something really up-to-the-minute. You may want to check out Barry Eisler's 'Rain' series, about an American-Japanese assassin, I believe. Haven't read them, but have heard they're good. Here's a taster. As for the Clancy-style up-to-the-minute techno thriller stuff, you may want to check out the likes of Stephen Hunter, Dale Brown and Patrick Robinson. Lots of details about planes and boats. I can't vouch for them, though, as I've never read them - but they seem to be the market-leaders.

I hate to disagree with spynovelfan but having attempted to read a novel by Stephen Leather I would urge you not to waste your money. Although he may know the situations and technology about which he is writing, Mr Leather does so with a stunning lack of literary flair to the point where I could not go on. Andy McNab is another culprit. Much the problem with thriller writers these days, they have very often been there but simply cannot write about it.

I read the first chapter of Hard Rain and that does seem like a very interesting twist in the spy thriller genre written with much proficiency, may try and track it down. Another one that has come highly recommended is Legacy by Alan Judd (set in the 1970s) which I have bought, as well as he works of relative newcomer Charles Cumming. However, although probably not of the ilk that the questioner was looking for, Eric Ambler's Cause For Alarm comes highly, highly recommended by me. I'm getting through it at a quick pace and it is, thus far, a spy thriller worthy of the name.

[WC]

Welshcat, yes, Littell is basically a Cold War author. I get the impression you're looking for something really up-to-the-minute. You may want to check out Barry Eisler's 'Rain' series, about an American-Japanese assassin, I believe. Haven't read them, but have heard they're good. Here's a taster. As for the Clancy-style up-to-the-minute techno thriller stuff, you may want to check out the likes of Stephen Hunter, Dale Brown and Patrick Robinson. Lots of details about planes and boats. I can't vouch for them, though, as I've never read them - but they seem to be the market-leaders.

I hate to disagree with spynovelfan but having attempted to read a novel by Stephen Leather I would urge you not to waste your money. Although he may know the situations and technology about which he is writing, Mr Leather does so with a stunning lack of literary flair to the point where I could not go on. Andy McNab is another culprit. Much the problem with thriller writers these days, they have very often been there but simply cannot write about it.

I read the first chapter of Hard Rain and that does seem like a very interesting twist in the spy thriller genre written with much proficiency, may try and track it down. Another one that has come highly recommended is Legacy by Alan Judd (set in the 1970s) which I have bought, as well as he works of relative newcomer Charles Cumming. However, although probably not of the ilk that the questioner was looking for, Eric Ambler's Cause For Alarm comes highly, highly recommended by me. I'm getting through it at a quick pace and it is, thus far, a spy thriller worthy of the name.

Err... not sure what you're talking about here. Where did "Stephen Leather" come into it? Do you mean Robert Littell or Stephen Hunter? Or are you referring to someone else?

[Lazenby880]

Err... not sure what you're talking about here. Where did "Stephen Leather" come into it? Do you mean Robert Littell or Stephen Hunter? Or are you referring to someone else?   

My apologies, you are right on re-reading SNF was referring to another author entirely. Seeing a name that vaguely resembles Stephen Leather's tends to send me off into a rant.

[FLEMINGFAN]

Nice picks, FLEMINGFAN, and I could add a few more in that vein. I somehow get the feeling that Welshcat's looking for very up-to-date stuff, though - he says he finds Clancy dated. The Hood adventures may not feature Cold War politics overtly in the plots, but they were written during the Cold War and are absolutely a *part* of the Cold War, in that they feature a ruthless and suave British agent driving fast cars, bedding beautiful women and battling nasty foreign baddies. I seem to remember HAMMERHEAD features some kind of religious cult and bevies of beautiful women. I'm quite interested in Mayo, because he was apparently a friend of Fleming's. I think you could fairly easily change the name 'Charles Hood' to 'James Bond' and a few minor details in some of those novels and you'd think you were reading Fleming, or at least a pretty damn good continuation. He knows his art, and all that. LET SLEEPING GIRLS LIE opens with a very Flemingesque scene, in which a woman laughs herself to death in a hotel lobby. And, of course, he titled one of the books SHAMELADY, which as I'm sure you know was Fleming's original name for Goldeneye.

The Helms were reoptioned a couple of years ago, but they seem to be in development hell. Great thrillers, though. I interviewed Donald Hamilton on the phone a couple of years back - the article is the last post in this thread, and mentions another couple of writers from that period you may enjoy.

[spynovelfan]

No problem, lazenby880 - and for all I know Stephen Hunter could be just as bad. I tend not to read this kind of spy fiction because I find most of it is chockablock with technical detail and poor writing. If I want to read a manual, I'll read one. But that's my own personal preference, and I was just trying to help Welshcat out. I could recommend hundreds of brilliant spy thrillers, but they wouldn't fall into what Welshcat asked for, so I was just rooting around in my brain for authors in this field who I've heard people who are into this kind of thing appreciate.

FLEMINGFAN, were you going to add something?

[Bond_Bishop]

I am looking for a spy novel which has all the spy elements. It should have a intriguing story not too much political stuff in it. A couple of action sequences. Cool descriptions of weapons and so. Could you give me any good suggestions?

[WC]

No problem, lazenby880 - and for all I know Stephen Hunter could be just as bad. I tend not to read this kind of spy fiction because I find most of it is chockablock with technical detail and poor writing. If I want to read a manual, I'll read one. But that's my own personal preference, and I was just trying to help Welshcat out. I could recommend hundreds of brilliant spy thrillers, but they wouldn't fall into what Welshcat asked for, so I was just rooting around in my brain for authors in this field who I've heard people who are into this kind of thing appreciate.

FLEMINGFAN, were you going to add something?

Well I guess you could still list some of those spy thrillers here. Are they mostly Cold War though? Is that why you say they're not what I'm looking for? I guess I wouldn't mind trying to read them if the plot in itself was good, regardless of Cold War elements. Don't get me wrong - I do love Cold War stuff, but I'm trying to look at some modern day stuff at the moment (which has good writing and isn't purely technobabble).

Incidentally, on a Cold War note, did anyone here ever read stuff by Craig Thomas? He was pre-Clancy. If so, what did you think? And what's happened to him these days?