27 replies to this topic

[Byron]

Dear comrades,

Would someone be kind enough to give me a bit of info regarding this "lost" Bond novel. It's background, author and what it's supposed to be about.

Many thanks.

[wattenscheid09]

I'm sure there are several threads, Byron, but here's the short version. Basically it's another COLONEL SUN-like Fleming follow-up commissioned right after that one - by Jennings who claimed to have developed the storyline with Fleming. Supposedly it's set in Africa. The manuscript is sitting in the vaults of the Fleming Foundation. It was never published and is something of a Holy Grail for Fleming/Bond completists. It's not hard to see why:

a) There's a shadow of a real influence by Fleming Himself.

It is a book from Ye Olden Days when spies still were spies, men still men and cigarettes were smoked without bad conscience...

c) Nobody has read it. It may turn out, of course, that it's mediocre and was therefor withheld. I'm terrified of that prospect but keep thse fingers crossed.

Lastly I sincerely hope spynovelfan chimes in. He is on it since months and knows everything. And I mean EVERYTHING. But he won't tell:) - that is, until in a very short time when he will spill the beans...

Edited by wattenscheid09, 19 May 2005 - 10:47 AM.

[spynovelfan]

There will be news about this very soon, I hope. There have been some significant developments, but a lot of stuff is happening and there may be more, so it would be silly to get into it now. But I am on the case, believe me.

If you want to know more about the background to the book, check out the article at 007Forever, which I believe was written by Nick Kincaid. If anyone has contact details for Nick, who I last corresponded with a couple of years ago, please PM me - the email address I have of his at the moment doesn't get any response.

[Skudor]

Interesting stuff... I had never heard of this book before. Look forward to learning more.

[doublenoughtspy]

Now that EON has confirmed South Africa location filming - I can't wait for someone to ask about "Per Fine Ounce" at a press conference.

[zencat]

There will be news about this very soon, I hope. There have been some significant developments, but a lot of stuff is happening and there may be more, so it would be silly to get into it now. But I am on the case, believe me.

Excellent. Keep us posted, spynovelfan.

[ACE]

I understand that Per Fine Ounce was seen by people at Glidrose as a ruse for Jenkins' publishers, Collins to get in on the lucrative Bond action when the void opened up after Fleming's death.

In those days Glidrose were very particular about preserving Fleming's literary reputation ("The Property Of A Lady" was not included in the hardback because it was felt it was below par). Per Fine Ounce was apparently just badly written but purchased nevertheless. Glidrose/IFP have always retained the right NOT to publish.

Furthermore, the protection and preservation of intellectual property and copyright in the 1960s was not as sophisticated as it is today and publishers were gearing up to publish Bond novels of their own. It was, in part, to stop this potential threat that the continuation Bonds came about.

ACE

[ACE]

Incidentally, there are other, unfinished Bond short stories by Fleming which have not seen the light of day.

ACE

[Hawkeye]

Spynovelfan, you've piqued my curiosity. I await information with bated breath and a fanboys prayer for this novel seeing the light of day. Even if it was badly written i'd still buy it. Ya never know maybe they'd get someone to re-write it.

[zencat]

I understand that Per Fine Ounce was seen by people at Glidrose as a ruse for Jenkins' publishers, Collins to get in on the lucrative Bond action when the void opened up after Fleming's death.

In those days Glidrose were very particular about preserving Fleming's literary reputation ("The Property Of A Lady" was not included in the hardback because it was felt it was below par). Per Fine Ounce was apparently just badly written but purchased nevertheless. Glidrose/IFP have always retained the right NOT to publish.

Furthermore, the protection and preservation of intellectual property and copyright in the 1960s was not as sophisticated as it is today and publishers were gearing up to publish Bond novels of their own. It was, in part, to stop this potential threat that the continuation Bonds came about.

ACE

Interesting info. Thanks. ACE.

Incidentally, there are other, unfinished Bond short stories by Fleming which have not seen the light of day.

ACE

[Qwerty]

One with a villain named Zographos I believe.

[ACE]

One with a villain named Zographos I believe.

Well no. Z was an actual gambler whom Fleming admired and had Bond meet him in one of the unfinished Bonds.

On the research trip that SpyNovelFan attended, at least one other unfinished Bond story was discovered involving Bond being sent to jail as a ruse to deceive a fellow prisoner to revealing information.

ACE

[Qwerty]

Yes, not a full unfinished story, but parts at least.

[ACE]

The point is, Z was not the villain.

[Qwerty]

Ah yes, my mistake.

[zencat]

On the research trip that SpyNovelFan attended, at least one other unfinished Bond story was discovered involving Bond being sent to jail as a ruse to deceive a fellow prisoner to revealing information.

ACE

Wow! This info has my head spinning. I sure hope these stories will come to light some day. I don't suppose you guys can share any titles with us, can you?

[ACE]

No because I don't know them. I did not attend the trip, just know most of the chaps who did.

Obviously IFP are careful about this information. They have lots of papers and notes by Fleming, not all of it Bond related.

When informally asked whether they would publish assorted bits of Fleming's journalism and writing, IFP supposed there would be no market for it.

[Hawkeye]

Well this just gets more intriguing. Please fill us all in when you can reveal stuff spynovelfan. Could we actually be getting close to finding the bondian holy grail...?

[Byron]

Any update on Jenkins per fine ounce SPYNOVELFAN?

I pray your mission hasn't stalled.

[wattenscheid09]

Yeah, don't let us wait forever.

[spynovelfan]

LOL. Patience is a virtue.

Trust me, I'm extremely busy with this, and will tell you all about it in good time. I can't relate it now, though.

But if anyone knows how I can contact Nick Kincaid, please PM or email me. Thanks.

[Gri007]

The short stories that Benson have wrote havn't appeared in short story collection yet. I hope one day they do.

I'am surprised though that the Bond story that Felming had started but never got round to fininshing it which had a MrZ? in wasn't completed by Kinsley Amis, as i belive he finished TMWTGG off.

Edited by Gri007, 14 August 2005 - 08:22 AM.

[K1Bond007]

I'am surprised though that the Bond story that Felming had started but never got round to fininshing it which had a MrZ? in  wasn't completed by Kinsley Amis, as i belive he finished TMWTGG off.

Fleming and Fleming alone wrote TMWTGG. The only other person to touch it was Fleming's editor, Plomer. When it was released, Amis reviewed it in a newspaper and essentially called it "lifeless".

John Cork around the time The Legacy was released confirmed that Amis had nothing to do with it. Cork even wrote, "Fleming did write The Man With The Golden Gun. Kingsley Amis famously read the typescript, but his suggestions were not implemented. The book, the story, the characters, and the language (apart from the usual editor's work) is Fleming's. I have personally looked at the typescript, and it was not altered upon publication."

A lot of other biographers and etc have all come to the same conclusion including Andrew Lycett.

[Byron]

Found 2 pages from Per Fine Ounce on the net. Don't get too excited as they aren't anything that special. Scroll down for pages 88 and 89.

Darren (spynovelfan) or anyone else deeply involved in the hunt has seen these before?

Apologies if these have already appeared in the KKBB magazine article - i still have to pick up an issue.

Enjoy:

http://au.rottentoma..._...ic&uc=31973

[clinkeroo]

Jeremy (SNF) is gone now, but I dropped him an email about these just to get his thoughts. Interesting stuff, including the entire thread, not just the alleged pages of PFO.

Great catch.

[Byron]

Jeremy (SNF) is gone now, but I dropped him an email about these just to get his thoughts. Interesting stuff, including the entire thread, not just the alleged pages of PFO.

Great catch.

Thanks mate! Spy Novel Fan is gone??? Sorry about confusing his name.

If it's not too much trouble, please let me know of Jeremy's thoughts when he gets back to you.

[MkB]

Found 2 pages from Per Fine Ounce on the net. Don't get too excited as they aren't anything that special. Scroll down for pages 88 and 89.

Darren (spynovelfan) or anyone else deeply involved in the hunt has seen these before?

Apologies if these have already appeared in the KKBB magazine article - i still have to pick up an issue.

Enjoy:

http://au.rottentoma..._...ic&uc=31973

Fascinating catch, Byron! Kudos!
These 2 pages don't offer groundbreaking writing, but at least we learn that Bond was more or less "going rogue" for this mission.
What I find even more intriguing is this mention: "I received these two pages of source from my colleague, Ronald Pane, "Agent-of-Note" for the Geoffrey Jenkins Estate. Ron Payne and myself are diligently searching for the remainder of the 'Geoffrey Jenkins' manuscript."
Could it be possible? And if they do find the remainder, could they make it public (as opposed to "commercially publish it", which I believe they couldn't because of IFP)?

[wattenscheid09]

Oh, yes, please. The Holy Grail... at hand.. in reach... p-p-p-leeeease!