32 replies to this topic

[Felix_Leiter]

I think Tomorrow Never Dies is clearly the weak link. It's missing the charm. Mind you, I love GE and TWINE. From the looks of it DAD might give GE a run for it's money as my favourite Brosnan bond film.

[Mr Trump]

I would also go with TND. It's not that I dislike the film because I love it but It's not as good as the other two.

[ray t]

YOU NEW POSTERS KILL ME!

(Horatio! I am Killed...)

"dis-liked the most?"

You're [cuss]ing kidding right?

the three so far ARE INFINITELY SUPERIOR to 97.2 percent of the movies ever made....

I thought these forums were for "fans"

there i go again...i better stop before i say anything that will send me into another self-imposed exhile

PATHETIC!

[Loomis]

ray t (20 May, 2002 03:38 p.m.):
YOU NEW POSTERS KILL ME!

(Horatio! I am Killed...)

"dis-liked the most?"

You're [cuss]ing kidding right?

the three so far ARE INFINITELY SUPERIOR to 97.2 percent of the movies ever made....

I thought these forums were for "fans"

there i go again...i better stop before i say anything that will send me into another self-imposed exhile

PATHETIC!

What's pathetic are suggestions that every single one of the Bond films is a work of genius, and that as "fans" we should be forbidden to entertain any kind of criticism relating to the hallowed 007 series.
I won't get worked up, though, because I'm 99.9, well, 97.2% sure that your posting was some kind of joke. All of us who post messages on this site are Bond fans, and no doubt there are many who would regard us as geeks, but it's just tragic beyond belief to suggest that so-and-so is some kind of heretic for disliking a Bond film or disloyal to the Church of Broccoli for asking other people which Bond films they dislike. A film critic friend of mine claims to have received death threats from "Bond fans" in 1989 after publishing a negative review of Licence to Kill. One letter threatened: "I'm going to use my licence to kill on you, ************." I used to take that story with a pinch of salt, but now....
We should all relax and feel free to post our opinions - to which we are all entitled - without fear of drawing the wrath of people who have evidently turned their love of Bond into a kind of religion. I'm assuming most of us are intelligent adults, so my message is: be a geek, by all means, but don't be a loser.

[Sanchez]

I would have to agree with Blofeld's Cat & ray t.

[Mouse]

LTK is the BEST ever!!!!!

[Simon]

Loomis - bang on accurate. It's all there.

TWINE turned out to be good idea and incorrect execution the whole way through. Pleasing 15 different audiences seemed to be par for the course with serious bits interspersed with buffoonery. The action was lame and the direction bland.

I have to lay the blame for this one at the door of the producers as they went with an entirely inappropriate director in Apted. His style of film creation was straight out of 60's TV production which wasn't helped by his background in documentaries. It was the first Bond film I have ever sat through at the cinema where I actually checked my watch to see how much longer I had to put up with it. And it hasn't improved with age and video viewings.

I am a fan but the recent films have all tried to pander to every audience, which then runs the risk of appealing to none. The films in the past knew where they were heading and went with it - there currently seems to be a lack of confidence in any one direction hence the various anomolies and this is shown more in Pierce's tenure as he wants more realism, more grit and more nudity. But then the producers stick a bit of clowning in the Q scenes which has the effect of throwing the entire presentation off kilter.

With the next film, I sincerely hope that they have the confidence to head down one route and not try to off-set the tension of Bond's bearded handover with Q tripping over his new lab coat.

[Tedley King]

I don't dislike any of the films, although I admit, there are parts in each film that do bore me a little, but what film doesn't have parts that are boring?

[Felix_Leiter]

Easy everybody, relax. Just because it's a bond film doesn't mean to have to love it to death. Notice that my subject line doesn't say that you hate the film, merely dis-liked. My original post is not a negative one. It's just stating my opinion, which is what I thought these forums were for. Surely all of you must have a bond film that you don't particularly care for? Well, TND is mine.

[Plan Omega]

Felix_Leiter (20 May, 2002 08:42 p.m.):
Easy everybody, relax. Just because it's a bond film doesn't mean to have to love it to death. Notice that my subject line doesn't say that you hate the film, merely dis-liked. My original post is not a negative one. It's just stating my opinion, which is what I thought these forums were for. Surely all of you must have a bond film that you don't particularly care for? Well, TND is mine.

I think there's a link here - TND is my least favourite as well, it was less Bond and more Seagal/Rambo etc. The pre-titles being the downer for me, it was a bit of a dumb sequence, do we really believe that Bond has died when they lose the satellite link up - of course not!
By the way Barry Norman (Uk film reviewer) had a mojor pop at TWINE, I think he called the whole film banal or something, and it mad me so damn mad because I think it's such a quality Bond film.

Looking at things as they stand (could well change when DAD comes out) my run-down is 1. TWINE 2. DAD 3. G/EYE 4. TND.

[Carver]

I've got to agree with Blofelds Cat and ray t, all the Brosnan films are great! All have great action sequences, beautiful women and great story lines. Give TND some slack though, this was the frist Bond film not produced by Cubby Broccoli so the stakes were high. This is a negative post by the way from you newcomers, and I'm suprised that Xenobia has'nt posted a reply to show her disgust :-)

[Felix_Leiter]

So Carver, every post must be optimistic, non-confrontational and state the opinion of the populus and not of the individual? I think this was a great post. Just look at the geniune discussion it produced. Isn't that what forums are for, discussion?

[Felix_Leiter]

So Carver, every post must be optimistic, non-confrontational and state the opinion of the populus and not of the individual? I think this was a great post. Just look at the geniune discussion it produced. Isn't that what forums are for, discussion?

[General Koskov]

This era seems to be the one plagued by 'the little things' like too much action, [cuss] music, and too much 'drama'.

Anyway, I mentioned my alternate plot for Tomorrow Never Dies. No one seemed to care, so I'll just post it in this thread of CMGN (appropriately ) forums anyway.

[Felix_Leiter]

Carver (22 May, 2002 09:33 p.m.):
Ok, this is a bit long in replying, but here's to Koskov. In TWINE, Robinson went 'out in the field' to ecort Bond and DR Jones to the pipeline, so thats how he escaped Elektras guards. Don't you remember?
And to Felix, ok, I'm sorry for whatever it is I said, but surely everyone loves Pierce's films, don't they?

Don't worry about it.

[007luvchild]

I really can't recall ever disliking a Brosnan era film. I find them slique, modern and appealing. But I find myself not disliking any of the bond films. I like them all to be honest with you. I have a category of excellent and then watchable, and tolerable,

[Loomis]

I agree, I think LTK is one of the best Bonds ever.

[Carver]

Ok, this is a bit long in replying, but here's to Koskov. In TWINE, Robinson went 'out in the field' to ecort Bond and DR Jones to the pipeline, so thats how he escaped Elektras guards. Don't you remember?
And to Felix, ok, I'm sorry for whatever it is I said, but surely everyone loves Pierce's films, don't they?

[Mouse]

I would have to say GE. Having waited 6 years it was great seeing Bond on the big screen for the first time (I was too young to see LTK). I loved it. But then TND and TWINE came along and upstaged it in my opinion.

[Simon]

Jim (21 May, 2002 07:01 a.m.):
He was much stronger and relaxed in Tomorrow Never Dies, probablky because that film tried to mean very little. He seems to be striving to add depth to his performance, and that striving shows to the film's detriment. He just seems to be working too hard, which is odd, given that Bond isn't a particularly challenging role.

Maybe that's the director's fault.

Absolutely that is the director's fault. Brosnan has been seen to give relaxed performances - to wit, TND, Thomas Crown and Tailor/Panama. To be so overly earnest has to have been drawn out of him by Apted. But I don't blame Apted. He was just hired for something that made him a fish out of water.

I believe Brosnan realises his overly strained efforts as he has stated to be striving for a more relaxed performance with DAD. Time will tell but if he's realised it and has voiced it - I believe we will get it.

[freemo]

And all this time I though I was the only one. I agree Jim, though there are also a few other reasons why I have TWINE as the least of the three.

[General Koskov]

Ah, now I understand about Robinson. And Loomis, your friend didn't like Licence to Kill?!?!?!? How could anyone not like Licence to Kill? Honestly, people are so hard on that one...

[david0007]

I think he has delivered a defining performance in TWINE, and has made the role his.

[Double-Oh-Zero]

I'm not really a person who looks at the negative side of things, but for me, The World is not Enough doesn't appeal to me as much as the others. First, there's Denise. Next, there's the opening sequence that is way too long. Last, the plot can be a wee bit confusing at times. Of course, maybe it's just me. BTW Xen, I thought that GoldenEye had a good score, too.

[Jim]

The World is not Enough

The film feels terribly soggy, and turgid. Although lauded elsewhere, Mr Brosnan's performance is offputting and divertingly poor. He was much stronger and relaxed in Tomorrow Never Dies, probablky because that film tried to mean very little. But the undernourished portentousness of The World is not Enough seems to serve Mr Brosnan badly. He seems to be striving to add depth to his performance, and that striving shows to the film's detriment. He just seems to be working too hard, which is odd, given that Bond isn't a particularly challenging role.

The romance is too uninvolving for the first climax (no pun intended) to work properly. Maybe that's why Mr Brosnan has to overemphasise theatrically all the way through, to try to impress upon the audience that it had some significance. That's not acting; it's detrimental overacting. The performance hasn't been gauged correctly. Maybe that's the director's fault.

The central performance aside, other weaknesses are Sophie Marceau's performance; acting in another language, ok, forgiven, but she looks bored all the way through. That may be intentional, but it's very offputting. Maybe that's the director's fault too.

Extraneous rubbish like Zukovsky, the helicopter attack and M being so damned stupid wither me inwardly.

Resolutely plain.

[Tanger]

I'll have to say GoldenEye. Since I've watched it soooo many times, I'm now bored of it and loathe it. I tried watching it today and had to switch it off after the gunbarrel! LOL!
Actually, I got as far as the Admiral death scene and then got bored. Yawn, seen it too many times.

I'll take Tomorrow Never Dies as my favourite. Love the action and the score, better story I feel. The World is not Enough has a dark feel to it. It just seems all wrong. Sure it was Okay on the big screen, but that was 3 years ago and it hasn't aged well since.

[Dmitri Mishkin]

Simon (20 May, 2002 04:28 p.m.):
TWINE turned out to be good idea and incorrect execution the whole way through.  Pleasing 15 different audiences seemed to be par for the course with serious bits interspersed with buffoonery.  The action was lame and the direction bland... (edited)

Well-said, Simon.

[rafterman]

Tomorrow Never Dies is mindless action, but it has great music and doesn't bore me like GoldenEye....I love The World is not Enough...can't get enough of it....

[Blofeld's Cat]

Why post such a negative thread?

[Loomis]

I disliked TWINE the most.
For me the problem with TWINE was that the filmmakers didn't really know what kind of Bond flick they wanted to make and came up with something they hoped would please everyone. The film's tone was extremely uneven, with the light, escapist moments jarring with the "serious" aspects and making the latter seem fairly unpleasant. For instance, we have the usual banter between Bond and Q, and also we have a heroine (Sophie Marceau) who mutilates herself, which simply doesn't belong in a Bond movie. A girl cutting off part of her ear would be okay in Ian Fleming, but definitely not in the films.
The filmmakers hired a "classy" director in the shape of Michael Apted who almost immediately shot his mouth off all over the world's media about how much he wanted to make a "serious, dramatic, believable, zzzzzzzzzz......" Bond film, and hired writers who obviously tried hard to come up with an "intelligent" storyline. TWINE occasionally seems like the only Bond film one could actually call pretentious. At the same time, they still felt compelled to "play to the gallery" by incorporating all the old Bond shtick, i.e. Q, innuendo, girls & gadgets, which made the film sometimes seem condescending to the audience and makes watching TWINE feel a little like watching parts of two rather different films spliced uneasily together. I don't say it's a rotten film, or even among the worst of the Bond flicks, but I think there's a heck of a lot wrong with it. Some terrific action scenes were ruined through indifferent cinematography and clumsy editing (I'm thinking especially of a paraglider/ski chase). Other set piece action scenes (e.g. the caviar factory battle and the final showdown in the sub) are virtually cures for insomnia. TWINE doesn't touch GoldenEye or Tomorrow Never Dies, which both seemed so much more assured and less, well, lumpy.