130 replies to this topic

[spynovelfan]

I've only read HIGH TIME TO KILL, and I thought it was very poor. Loomis praises Benson's research into Hong Kong in ZERO MINUS TEN; the segment in Brussels in this book is downright embarrassing, with Bond parking in the Grand Place (not possible) and meeting his contact at the Mannekin Pis. The Maguffin is something called Skin something or other, but that's all I remember about it - perhaps something to do with air technology? Like many thriller writers, Benson seemed not to have realised that readers do actually need to give a damn about the Maguffin. But the worst thing about the book was the prose, which was clumsy and banal throughout. Things got a touch more interesting towards the end, granted (although it's very similar to Trevanian's EIGER SANCTION), but I thought it was a weak thriller that probably wouldn't have been published had it not had Bond in it. I'd give it three cyanide capsules out of ten.

But one of these days I'll give Benson another shot (perhaps a double-one). Some of you people seem to like him.

[David Schofield]

the Man With the Red Tattoo as Bondian as the line about Bond having become Tony Blairs favourite agent.

I may be wrong, but I don't think Blair is actually mentioned by name at any point in the book. Bond is "the Prime Minister's" fave. Besides, haven't there been plenty of references to real people in the books and films, ever since Fleming's day?

No you right, Blair's not mentioned directly (though I do think we're meant to believe its him). It just grates trying to imagine Fleming's Bond (tough, sexist, hard drinking) in Blair's version of Britain.

[David Schofield]

But one of these days I'll give Benson another shot (perhaps a double-one). Some of you people seem to like him.

[/quote]

Personally, I wouldn't bother. I've tried it - because as you say, some people clearly like, even admire, his work - and all it does is make you feel even worse about the books.

[Loomis]

It just grates trying to imagine Fleming's Bond (tough, sexist, hard drinking) in Blair's version of Britain.

I hear ya. Mind you, that's a problem with the recent films, too. And I have a hard time accepting Fleming's Bond (in Gardner) as a blunt instrument of the Thatcher years. Couldn't be helped, I suppose, other than by setting these continuation novels and films in the '50s/'60s (which is something that has more than once struck me as not necessarily a bad idea).

Talking of "The Man With the Red Tattoo", there's a very gratuitous and clumsy reference to 9/11. M (Dench's M, naturally) informs Bond that: "Potential threats to representatives of Western governments are a constant concern since the events of September 2001." So they weren't a concern before 9/11? And it begs the question: why haven't the Brits sent their best agent after al-Qaeda/Bin Laden? Besides, who in 2002 would have referred in conversation to "the events of September 2001"? People would have said "September 11th" or "9/11".

[Zing!]

While I disagree on the merits of ZMT Loomis, I do agree that Benson could have benefitted from having a better editor. Really, I would have fired the editor after ZMT. If that editor still has a job I'd be VERY surprised.

Amen to that! Benson had some very good ideas and certainly knew his Bondian lore better than most, but his way with words (or lack thereof) simply dragged his books down. A better editor was needed to give Benson guidance and punch up the dialgoue. To me, reading Fleming is like dining on savory filet mignon, while reading Benson is like chowing down on a cheeseburger.

[David Schofield]

[quote name='Loomis' date='19 April 2005 - 12:46']
[quote name='David Schofield' date='19 April 2005 - 12:39']It just grates trying to imagine Fleming's Bond (tough, sexist, hard drinking) in Blair's version of Britain.

[/quote]

I hear ya. Mind you, that's a problem with the recent films, too. And I have a hard time accepting Fleming's Bond (in Gardner) as a blunt instrument of the Thatcher years.

Dunno, Loomis. I COULD see Bond as a blunt instrument for a might is right, couldn't give a government like Thatchers. I'm sure Fleming would have approved, as, of course, did Kingsley Amis.

Just can't see Bond as part of Blair's touchy-feely brigade.

[Loomis]

Dunno, Loomis. I COULD see Bond as a blunt instrument for a might is right, couldn't give a government like Thatchers. I'm sure Fleming would have approved, as, of course, did Kingsley Amis.

Yes, you're right.

Just can't see Bond as part of Blair's touchy-feely brigade.

So you haven't seen THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH?

[David Schofield]

To me, reading Fleming is like dining on savory filet mignon, while reading Benson is like chowing down on a cheeseburger.

[/quote]


Careful, Zing, we're dangerously close to Benson's own superior opinions about Gardner. Might upset someone!

[David Schofield]

Dunno, Loomis. I COULD see Bond as a blunt instrument for a might is right, couldn't give a government like Thatchers. I'm sure Fleming would have approved, as, of course, did Kingsley Amis.

Yes, you're right.

Just can't see Bond as part of Blair's touchy-feely brigade.

So you haven't seen THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH?

Well, now, without ruffling anyone else's feathers - hell, wny not - doesn't Brozza have a resemblence of Tony Blair?

[Loomis]

Well, now, without ruffling anyone else's feathers - hell, wny not - doesn't Brozza have a resemblence of Tony Blair?

I certainly think Timothy Dalton looks a lot like Geoff Hoon.

Hmmm.... British politicians. If Fleming's Bond is what we're after, let's hope the next big screen 007 is a lot closer to Charles Kennedy than Tony Blair!

[David Schofield]

Well, now, without ruffling anyone else's feathers - hell, wny not - doesn't Brozza have a resemblence of Tony Blair?

I certainly think Timothy Dalton looks a lot like Geoff Hoon.

Hmmm.... British politicians. If Fleming's Bond is what we're after, let's hope the next big screen 007 is a lot closer to Charles Kennedy than Tony Blair!

Yes, Geoff Hoon and TD - scary.

And isn't Charles Kennedy on EON list of 72? The original tough talking, hard drinking (though in denial, lovies) Scotsman. I believe he has no filming commitments after 5 May.

Edited by David Schofield, 19 April 2005 - 01:22 PM.

[spynovelfan]

[Jim]

You've just tapped into my worst nightmare.

[hrabb04]

Jim's going to have to go back to the shrink again.

[David Schofield]

Brozza reign as Bond = Tony Blair's governments achievements.

Discuss.

[Loomis]

And isn't Charles Kennedy on EON list of 72? The original tough talking, hard drinking (though in denial, lovies) Scotsman. I believe he has no filming commitments after 5 May.

Oh, you know he's on that list of 72 (along with, presumably, David Beckham, Keanu Reeves and Mark E. Smith of The Fall).

But don't forget Michael Howard - now then, who'd be closer to Fleming's Bond: the drinking, smoking Scot, or the guy often accused of racism and xenophobia?

[David Schofield]

And isn't Charles Kennedy on EON list of 72? The original tough talking, hard drinking (though in denial, lovies) Scotsman. I believe he has no filming commitments after 5 May.

Oh, you know he's on that list of 72 (along with, presumably, David Beckham, Keanu Reeves and Mark E. Smith of The Fall).

But don't forget Michael Howard - now then, who'd be closer to Fleming's Bond: the drinking, smoking Scot, or the guy often accused of racism and xenophobia?

Well, you know, Michael Howard does have black hair, has mid-European heritage, is suitably upper-middle class...

And besides, Loomis, the only thing I KNOW is that Clive Owen will be Bond #6. Oh, and that Blair WILL win the election. Safe bets.

[Tanger]

Isn't this a thread about Benson?

I gave up on him myself. I've only read TMWTRT and his DAD novelisation. Partly because his books are so damn hard to get hold of and partly because it just doesn't seem worth it. I don't understand the praise for TMWTRT, sure it had it's moments but parts of it were ludicrous. The whole trying to fit the Kappa legend into the story by having a midget with a dent in his head that collects water when it rains. Somewhat typical of Benson's splap-dash approach.

[DLibrasnow]

Hey, great, another chance to rip into Benson.

That was not the purpose of this thread. Besides, the one person who needs to be ripped apart is Benson's editor.

[DLibrasnow]

http://www.commander...es/2441-1.shtml

and

http://www.commander...es/2457-1.shtml

Which reminds me that I should have finished the High Time to Kill piece ages ago. Will dig it out, bung it up.

I read your FOD review yesterday when I was researching which Benson book to try out. Great job. I would love to read an indepth review of HTTK from you.

[Jim]

Brozza reign as Bond = Tony Blair's governments achievements.

Discuss.

Mystifyingly popular, nakedly populist. Insubstantial, rejecting its roots, upsetting to many long-time supporters. Superficially financially sound. Started a war.

[David Schofield]

Brozza reign as Bond = Tony Blair's governments achievements.

Discuss.

Mystifyingly popular, nakedly populist. Insubstantial, rejecting its roots, upsetting to many long-time supporters. Superficially financially sound. Started a war.

Pretty spot on, and to bring this thread back to its starting point, it could sum up:

Brozza's reign as Bond = Tony Blair's governments achievements = Benson as continuation novelist.

La ronde.

[DLibrasnow]

<< Desperately trying to keep this thread on topic >>

[Loomis]

And besides, Loomis, the only thing I KNOW is that Clive Owen will be Bond #6. Oh, and that Blair WILL win the election. Safe bets.

I think only one of those things is a safe bet. And it's not the thing I'd like to think a safe bet.

[Loomis]

<< Desperately trying to keep this thread on topic >>

Sorry, D.

Erm, Benson's short stories? Any cop?

[DLibrasnow]

Not the ones I have read

[Loomis]

Which have you read?

I've read none of 'em, but I quite like the fact that the old boy wrote some Bond short stories. Seems quite a Flemingian thing to do.

[DLibrasnow]

Which have you read?

I've read none of 'em, but I quite like the fact that the old boy wrote some Bond short stories. Seems quite a Flemingian thing to do.

I've read the short story that appeared in PLAYBOY before Bensons first novel was released. I think its title was BLAST FROM THE PAST but I could be wrong and I've read the one that appeared in TV Guide, I think that one was called LIVE AT FIVE.

[Jim]

Brozza reign as Bond = Tony Blair's governments achievements.

Discuss.

Mystifyingly popular, nakedly populist. Insubstantial, rejecting its roots, upsetting to many long-time supporters. Superficially financially sound. Started a war.

Pretty spot on, and to bring this thread back to its starting point, it could sum up:

Brozza's reign as Bond = Tony Blair's governments achievements = Benson as continuation novelist.

La ronde.

Think yer stretching it a bit there, chapper.

To describe the Benson output as "mystifyingly popular" - well, amongst those that ever read it, maybe. As for "rejecting its roots" - clinging artificially to them "more loike". Not even going to touch the financial aspect.

Although it did start a war, 'tis true.

[DLibrasnow]

How did Benson start a war?