59 replies to this topic

[templer1972]

Having recentlty watched all 20 Bond film ,I can conclude that TND is the most action packed Bond film to date.My top 4 for the most non stop action from Bond film are as follows.

1.TND
2.FYEO
3.DAD
4.TSWLM

I also personally think TND director Roger Spottiswoode handle action sequence better then the rest.His action sequence is very well paced.

[YOLT]

I agree. TND is the last great Bond film. The Hamburg scenes are great. I think both TND and FYEO has the "action periods" in them. A TND/FYEO type CR will be great.

[Kingdom Come]

TND has less action than any other Brosnan film.

[Loomis]

TOMORROW NEVER DIES may (or may not) be the most-action packed Bond, but the action is by and large unimpressive and boring. Quantity is there, quality is not. I defy anyone to say that the film contains some of the best action moments of the franchise. Instead of the cleverly-conceived chase sequences and awesome stunts that the series is rightly famous for, we have explosions explosions explosions and lotsa machine guns. The Saigon pursuit is okay, I suppose.

[Qwerty]

Probably is. My favorite too of the Brosnans.

[Turn]

TOMORROW NEVER DIES may (or may not) be the most-action packed Bond, but the action is by and large unimpressive and boring. Quantity is there, quality is not. I defy anyone to say that the film contains some of the best action moments of the franchise. Instead of the cleverly-conceived chase sequences and awesome stunts that the series is rightly famous for, we have explosions explosions explosions and lotsa machine guns. The Saigon pursuit is okay, I suppose.

Okay, Loomis, I'll take the bait. I won't necessarily say TND contains some of the best action moments of the franchise, but I think the majority of those contained are more creative and interesting than most of the others in the Brosnan era at least and that goes a long way in a series that has become more about Bond's feelings than the results of Bond doing his job.

Yeah, there's a lot of explosions and gunfire in the film. But that's been the norm of the genre the past 15 or so years. One could look back at the '70s era and say those films were based on a lot of chases where a lot of destruction resulted.

Here's a list of things that work in TND's favor for me:

1. At 2 hours, it's one of the shortest Bond films in years, making it seem more action packed than it may be. It seems to move at the pace of a Lewis Gilbert Bond film.
2. It has the least personal baggage of the 4 Brosnan films, which may make it seem like then there is more action. They deal with the personal issues and move on, the way it used to be in the earlier films.
3. I'll take most of TND's action sequences compared to the boring, overrated tank chase in GE (a throwback to the Moore era), anything in TWINE and the majority of DAD. It's sad when the standout action piece of a James Bond movie is a swordfight.

TND just seems to be a fun, spirited James Bond film that fits more comfortably with the series than the others of the Brosnan era that seem to want to create a new era while throwing out some of the things that made it appealing to begin with. Yeah, it adds the guns and explosions, but at the core you still have the creative action for the most part around it, at least IMO.

[Kingdom Come]

I disagree Loomis, quantity was not there. It is obvious that the film has at least two major action sequences that are missing - comparing it to other films in the series since the 70s. Tomorrow Never Dies was a waste of a Bond film. It comes across like they were not sure what to do.

[Tarl_Cabot]

The pretite is awesome and so is the Halo-jump, and Hamburg stuff was fun; David Arnold's score really invigorated the film after the dismal Erric Serra performance. The stuff in Saigon(London, bangkok) was pretty weak and tedious as was the cookie cutter climax. Still, it's the most entertaining Brosnan Bond, for me anyway.

[Scottlee]

The action sequences are a mixed bag on TND

Utterly wonderful sequences
- Pre-titles
- ALL of the Hamburg stuff

Enjoyable enough
- Ending on the stealth boat

Just didn't do it for me
- Motorbike chase.

Mixed stuff, but on the whole it's a decent enough Bond for action-related stuff

[Qwerty]

Still, it's the most entertaining Brosnan Bond, for me anyway.

Has to count for something.

[doublenoughtspy]

Turn,

Did you miss the subplot with Paris Carver? That qualifies as personal baggage in my book. We are supposed to believe that of all the women Bond has been with - Paris got the closest? Please.

Yes, there is a lot of action in TND - but a lot of it is generic action for action's sake.

As a friend who had dinner with the Broccoli's after seeing the film said "I don't need to see James Bond with a machine gun again any time soon."

Think about it. How many times did you see Connery blowing people away with a machine gun Rambo style? None.

Now there are times when it makes sense for Bond to use automatic weapons - for instance when leading an assault (ala OHMSS or TSWLM). I know times have changed for action films - but turning Bond into a Rambo isn't a good idea.

I agree with Scotlee - the motorcycle chase did nothing for me. While I understand why Spottiswoode put it in there (as an opposite to the tank chase) - it just didn't prove exciting or dangerous. I half expected to hear a slide whistle when the bike jumped over the cgi helicopter blades.

[Turn]

Turn,

Did you miss the subplot with Paris Carver?  That qualifies as personal baggage in my book.  We are supposed to believe that of all the women Bond has been with - Paris got the closest?  Please.

Yes, there is a lot of action in TND - but a lot of it is generic action for action's sake.

As a friend who had dinner with the Broccoli's after seeing the film said "I don't need to see James Bond with a machine gun again any time soon."

Think about it.  How many times did you see Connery blowing people away with a machine gun Rambo style?  None.

Now there are times when it makes sense for Bond to use automatic weapons - for instance when leading an assault (ala OHMSS or TSWLM).  I know times have changed for action films - but turning Bond into a Rambo isn't a good idea.

I agree with Scotlee - the motorcycle chase did nothing for me.  While I understand why Spottiswoode put it in there (as an opposite to the tank chase) - it just didn't prove exciting or dangerous.  I half expected to hear a slide whistle when the bike jumped over the cgi helicopter blades.

I didn't discount the Paris Carver thing at all. My point was it was there and resolved before the movie was half over whereas the other three Brosnans carried the weight of the personal issue the length of those films. In TND, Bond grieves, gets revenge and moves on with the mission. He's even smiling, having a good time in the BMW chase in the parking garage a few minutes later and that's the kind of Bond I'd prefer to see.

True the machine gunning thing was un-Bondlike, but it was for one film and I could stand it for that; then he was at it again in TWINE in the missle silo. It seems like a lot of people don't like the bike chase and that's okay. I've read opinions of people who think the NSNA motorcycle chase is good and I find it one of the lamest motor chases in Bond history.

Everybody has likes and dislikes and I like TND which seems more sure where it wants to go as opposed to films like TWINE that wants to to be James Bond drama with action thrown in.

[JackLordIsFelix]

I used to think that TND was the second-best Brosnan film, but I have a strong case for DAD in that regard. The end of TND is too dark and dank for a Bond film -- all lit red like it was The Hunt for Red October or something. DAD was in living technicolor all the way through, CGI be damned -- I loved how the scenes in the planetarium looked so much like a similar scene in Moonraker.

[Sun Tzu]

TND is one of the most underrated James Bond films. Also one of the most enjoyable to me. I love it. It's the movie that got me hooked on James Bond films. I thought the action, while maybe not the most ever seen in a Bond film, was really good. That little moment Brosnan has before sending the BMW off the building is magic.

Edited by Sun Tzu, 19 March 2005 - 01:57 AM.

[Problem Eliminator]

The parking garage sequence is superb. Original, executed with flair, and expertly accompanied by Arnold's driving (no pun intended) score. In terms of set piece enjoyability, it is one of the highlights of the entire series, regardless of whether the film has too many machine guns elsewhere.

[Bondian]

Action wise, Tomorrow Never Dies was far superior to the rather mundane GoldenEye and had the best Arnold score of the series.

The tone and colour of the film is reminiscent to The Man With The Golden Gun and The Spy Who Loved Me and I agree, the Hamburg scenes were good.

This is indeed my favourite of the brossies, but unfortunately it only runs on one cylinder.

[Qwerty]

TND is one of the most underrated James Bond films.

I think you're right. If not underrated, than one that is just overlooked. It is by far Brosnan's best Bond film, taking the GoldenEye formula that made a successful film even further.

[right idea, wrong pussy]

Is TND "action-packed"? Yes, but that's precisely what ruins it as a movie. It is more action-packed than usual even in the first half, but the action is at least fairly well integrated with the plot and other dramatic elements up through the Hamburg carpark chase. The car park chase is good, and I agree that it's nice to see Bond enjoying himself after the equally well-plotted but "personal baggage" filled scenes from before.

However, after Bond's BMW ends up going through a shop window, the movie goes downhill REALLY fast, and was, until I recently watched the absolute piece of stinking horse that is DAD, my least favorite Brosnan Bond by far. Why does TND go from being so promising to being so bad? Well from the HALO jump until the end of the movie we basically have non-stop action. We don't get to see Bond leisurely checking into a hotel, the camera doesn't take in the local color, there are really none of the things that used to nicely break up the action sequences in the pre-Brosnan era. Instead we get non-stop action in indifferent locations. The fact that the action is poorly plotted and directed and full of machine guns doesn't help, but it isn't the inherent problem. The filmakers showed earlier in the movie that they knew how to make a good Bond film. You have plenty of set-up, plenty of time for Bond to stretch his legs and show his class, and they you have a great set-piece action sequence like the car park chase.

. . .And then you're supposed to give the audience a nice breather before the next sequence, but that's where this film fails. Maybe the motorcycle chase would have been better if it it been properly led up to, but it's just part of the 50 minute or so long mush that starts on the wreck of the Devenshire and ends on the Stealth ship. The scenes between Bond and Wai Lin while they're showering and while they're in her "safe house" are the closest things we get to breathers, but they're prefunctory and immediately look to keep the action going . No one relaxes, we're immediately looking at video screens showing that something or another is happening in Kowloon Bay, and they we're shipped off there. To be honest, the end of this film gives me a headache and ruins the whole film for me.

[Dmitri Mishkin]

Is TND "action-packed"? Yes, but that's precisely what ruins it as a movie. It is more action-packed than usual even in the first half, but the action is at least fairly well integrated with the plot and other dramatic elements up through the Hamburg carpark chase. The car park chase is good, and I agree that it's nice to see Bond enjoying himself after the equally well-plotted but "personal baggage" filled scenes from before.

However, after Bond's BMW ends up going through a shop window, the movie goes downhill REALLY fast, and was, until I recently watched the absolute piece of stinking horse that is DAD, my least favorite Brosnan Bond by far. Why does TND go from being so promising to being so bad? Well from the HALO jump until the end of the movie we basically have non-stop action. We don't get to see Bond leisurely checking into a hotel, the camera doesn't take in the local color, there are really none of the things that used to nicely break up the action sequences in the pre-Brosnan era. Instead we get non-stop action in indifferent locations. The fact that the action is poorly plotted and directed and full of machine guns doesn't help, but it isn't the inherent problem. The filmakers showed earlier in the movie that they knew how to make a good Bond film. You have plenty of set-up, plenty of time for Bond to stretch his legs and show his class, and they you have a great set-piece action sequence like the car park chase.

. . .And then you're supposed to give the audience a nice breather before the next sequence, but that's where this film fails. Maybe the motorcycle chase would have been better if it it been properly led up to, but it's just part of the 50 minute or so long mush that starts on the wreck of the Devenshire and ends on the Stealth ship. The scenes between Bond and Wai Lin while they're showering and while they're in her "safe house" are the closest things we get to breathers, but they're prefunctory and immediately look to keep the action going . No one relaxes, we're immediately looking at video screens showing that something or another is happening in Kowloon Bay, and they we're shipped off there. To be honest, the end of this film gives me a headache and ruins the whole film for me.

Well-put, right idea, wrong pussy! (had to laugh while typing that name ). The second half of TND always is a long, breathless watch for me. Up until then it was great fun and generally well-paced. But I often watch just the first half and then parts of the motorcyle chase (which in itself is a tad too long). There is no room to digest the action. Another expository scene should have been here, to break it up. And Bond himself is no longer showcased from the Kowloon Bay introduction until the death of Stamper. For all the action, we lose the character (a problem with DAD's ending as well). And I'm not talking about "emotional" or "dramatic" elements either, but rather about those moments, those quips and those moves that are just Bond and make us want to follow him through as opposed to any other character. David Arnold actually expresed this well on the DVD interview. He showed that it's the "yes!" moments that really make the movie enjoyable. We need more of those.

[YOLT]

The first half of TND was great. I would have improved the second half like this: ( after the BMW secenes ):

Why is the US army involved? The halo jump is a good idea but instead of an US army plane I would have used a British Airways civilian plane and Bond jumps out from the toilet:) After the BMW scenes he goes to the British embassy in Hamburg or Berlin and wants help.

The underwater scenes could have been improved. A bit more colorful action beneath the sea would have been great.

I think the motorbike scenes are good. But after it they loose time with "coming together". Why dont introduce a Chinesse Q?

Why make Bond too much Rambo. There is the British and Chineese army why dont use them more?

I think with 1 2 new chracters in the second half, TND would have been the best Bond film maybe after FRWL

[Scottlee]

The motorcycle chase is the only thing about the film that has ever bothered me, mainly because of the stupid way Bond destroys the helicopter in the climax. Overall, I've never thought the action in TND to be too fast moving, though. I also do not buy this claim that Bond becomes "Rambo" at any point during TND. So what if he machine guns 4 or 5 guys in the space of 10 minutes? Field operatives must use every means at their disposal to achieve their objective.

[Qwerty]

The underwater scenes could have been improved. A bit more colorful action beneath the sea would have been great.

I'm just glad they didn't overdo the underwater scenes for this one.

[YOLT]

The motorcycle chase is the only thing about the film that has ever bothered me, mainly because of the stupid way Bond destroys the helicopter in the climax. Overall, I've never thought the action in TND to be too fast moving, though. I also do not buy this claim that Bond becomes "Rambo" at any point during TND. So what if he machine guns 4 or 5 guys in the space of 10 minutes? Field operatives must use every means at their disposal to achieve their objective.

I hate to see Bond in commando suit. I just dont like it. I would allways prefer a Dr.Dent kill for some commando Bond action. Let him kill just one but let it be the best.

[Roger Moore's Bad Facelift]

TND has many faults (too many for me to recount), but most telling is towards the end where the writers had the brazen, misguided stupidity (or is it just oblivousness?) to have the missile launch accompanied by some omnipresent, female, robot-like voice, counting down the launch in typical emotionless, robot-like manner stating "T-minus 10 and counting... T-minus 9 and counting...T-minus 8 and..."

What a joke!

The spy spoof, Autin Powers rightfully parodied that absolutely beyond-trite action-film cliche just some years earlier, and the writers of TND merrily insert it in the film in this day and age as if it's not risibly out-of date & glaringly hackneyed.
If one flaw in the series ever made me question the mind set of the people in charge, it would have to be this one. Inarguably, these people are simply out of touch.


Goldeneye gave the series a good (albeit flawed) resurrection and launched the series into modern times, TND, on the otherhand, kinda sent Bond back a few decades. Whereas Goldeneye seemed fresh, elegant and contemporary, TND seemed already dated upon its release. How else can I put it? In comparison to Goldeneye, TND seemed about as fresh as Mayday

[YOLT]

TND has many faults (too many for me to recount), but most telling is towards the end where the writers had the brazen, misguided stupidity (or is it just oblivousness?) to have the missile launch accompanied by some omnipresent, female, robot-like voice, counting down the launch in typical emotionless, robot-like manner stating "T-minus 10 and counting... T-minus 9 and counting...T-minus 8 and..."

What a joke!

The spy spoof, Autin Powers rightfully parodied that absolutely beyond-trite action-film cliche just some years earlier, and the writers of TND merrily insert it in the film in this day and age as if it's not risibly out-of date & glaringly hackneyed.
If one flaw in the series ever made me question the mind set of the people in charge, it would have to be this one. Inarguably, these people are simply out of touch.


Goldeneye gave the series a good (albeit flawed) resurrection and launched the series into modern times, TND, on the otherhand, kinda sent Bond back a few decades. Whereas Goldeneye seemed fresh, elegant and contemporary, TND seemed already dated upon its release. How else can I put it? In comparison to Goldeneye, TND seemed about as fresh as Mayday’s black spandex leotard after a long, hard workout w/ Max Zorin. (sorry, just HAD to get an obligatory AVTAK nod in there somehow  )

Well if so I am pleased I will take anytime a 60s Bond over a 90s Bond. New doesnt mean that it is better. Old and classical ones are always better, which TND tried and accomplished.

[Jack_wade]

I have to agree. Although each character has the most action packed one. TND is a sweet movie and like someone said, the motor bike scene was.. yeah.
heres my opinion of action.

1.TND
2.TLDL
3.Goldeneye
4.FYEO
5. possibly LTK

[YOLT]

The underwater scenes could have been improved. A bit more colorful action beneath the sea would have been great.

I'm just glad they didn't overdo the underwater scenes for this one.

Well Roger was the best at underwater scenes. Both TSWLM and FYEO were great at underwater scenes.

[Janus Assassin]

The end on the stealth boat went on for too long. Bond looked more like Terminator than 007 in the end. The first half of the movie is when the action was paced just right. The second half is when they were all clustered together ala the Carver tower, then the motorcycle chase less than a minute later... then the fight in Wai Lin's safehouse and then the stealth boat ending. As TND is the shortest Brosnan film... they could have dragged out for another few minutes to pace the action towards the end.

[JackLordIsFelix]

"The spy spoof, Autin Powers rightfully parodied that absolutely beyond-trite action-film cliche just some years earlier, and the writers of TND merrily insert it in the film in this day and age as if it's not risibly out-of date & glaringly hackneyed.
If one flaw in the series ever made me question the mind set of the people in charge, it would have to be this one. Inarguably, these people are simply out of touch."

I don't know about other people, but I'm rapidly tiring of the way Austin Powers has supposedly taken the stuffing out of Bond. Austin Powers does not act like Bond or talk like Bond. Furthermore, the movies are not even very good satire of the spy genre. It's quite possibly the low point of Mike Myers' career, if anything...

[Scottlee]

I thought the first two Austin Powers films were quite funny, but Goldmember was rubbish. They ran out of ideas by that point.