32 replies to this topic

[Marc-Ange]

In Fleming's novels Bond carried a Colt .45 in his glovebox, as far as I remember. Is that the gun he used to shoot Baron Samedi? Who decided on that gun? Was it Moore? Did it make sense he would bring a higher calibre gun when he knew the details of his assault? Did the producers want to show that Bond would (righly so) use a bigger gun when the stealth of the PPK was not needed? BTW Moore is holding the gun on the cover of Live and Let Die SE DVD. Your thoughts, corrections, suppositions, and insight would be greatly appeciated.

[cwaters007]

The gun I think was a Nickle plated 44 Magnum much like the one used by Clint Eastwood of Dirty Harry fame

[Turn]

It does seem rather strange Bond would have such a massive gun for an operation that was supposed to be carried out quickly.

I can think of perhaps two reasons why he carried such a gun:
1. They were still trying to get away from the memory of Connery by sticking Bond with a different gun most of the time, save for the sequence where Tee Hee twists the Walther into junk, we just don't see it.
2. Since they were already sort of cashing in on blaxploitation, why not cash in on another popular character of the day - Dirty Harry.

I like the look of the gun, it suits Bond well. But it just seems unwieldy. Notice in a lot of the publicity pictures for LALD, Moore seems to be posing every type of firearm but the Walther. It's in a few, but not the majority that I've seen. I'm surprised he carried it in the gunbarrel.

[Trident]

To me the guns seems like a 44' magnum S&W k-frame with 6" barrel, square butt and wooden grips. It certainly is extremely difficult to shoot well if one is not a trained shooter as Bond is. The model comes closest to the 629 though I don't know wheather the 629 is available with 6" barrel. Fleming refered to a Colt '45 in a secret compartment beneath the dashboard. I never found out, wheather he meant the '45 ACP or a '45 Colt revolver.

Edited by Trident, 01 March 2005 - 03:44 PM.

[Bryce (003)]

It's a .44 S&W model 29 (Dirty Harry) with the 6.5 barrel.

With that kind of firepower, I never understood why Rog felt he had to put two more into the ceramic Baron Samedi - his first was a head shot.

Of the heavy guns Bond has used my favorite is the Ruger RedHawk kept in the Saab in Icebreaker.

[ComplimentsOfSharky]

It's a .44 S&W model 29 (Dirty Harry) with the 6.5 barrel.

With that kind of firepower, I never understood why Rog felt he had to put two more into the ceramic Baron Samedi - his first was a head shot.

Of the heavy guns Bond has used my favorite is the Ruger RedHawk kept in the Saab in Icebreaker.

I was just thinking about Icebreaker today actually....as I nearly lost control of my car on the snowy streets. I was waiting for snow plows to try and smash me.

And yeah I didn't get why you would need to put in 2 more with ANYTHING if the head of your target just exploded. Maybe 1 to be safe...but 2...come on Roger, think.

[Genrewriter]

It's a .44 S&W model 29 (Dirty Harry) with the 6.5 barrel.

With that kind of firepower, I never understood why Rog felt he had to put two more into the ceramic Baron Samedi - his first was a head shot.

Well, the guy is supposed to be the Lord of the Undead or something. Beoing cautious never got anyone killed...outside of action movies when it's the guy who is three days from retirement.

[Qwerty]

It's a .44 S&W model 29 (Dirty Harry) with the 6.5 barrel.

With that kind of firepower, I never understood why Rog felt he had to put two more into the ceramic Baron Samedi - his first was a head shot.

Never take chances when you're 007.

[JackLordIsFelix]

I don't know whether the use of a different gun was meant to be a departure from Connery, but Roger Moore never looked so bad- as he looked dressed all in black toting that Magnum -- elegance and machismo personified.

LALD is quite possibly the best of the Bond films that are generally considered not up to snuff. If you forget Kananga's comical death and the J.W. Pepper scenes (the latter of which is not as intrusive nor as bad as many make them out to be), it's a pretty cool Bond flick. Roger plays Bond rough yet smooth, there's an excellent score by George Martin and there are some all-time classic one-liners (the one about the short man who lost a fight with a chicken slays me every time ).

[Mark_Hazard]

Fleming refered to a Colt '45 in a secret compartment beneath the dashboard. I never found out, wheather he meant the '45 ACP or a '45 Colt revolver.

Casino Royale mentions his “long-barrelled Colt Army Special .45”. The actual length of barrel was not mentioned, nor was it mentioned as to whether this was a revolver or an automatic and, although make and “type” were mentioned, I could not find this model documented in my research material, although “long barrelled” usually refers to revolvers.

[Stuart]

If memory serves, Fleming mentioned Bond with revolvers on several occasions. The 'Police Positive with the sawn barrel' would be a Colt model Police Positive .38 Special with a shorter-than-standard barrel, example 4" barrel cut to 2" or so by Q branch.

For the longest time, I thought that the 'Colt .45' mentioned in TMWTGG and other novels was a semi-auto. Learning more about firearms and re-reading the text has caused me to conclude that Fleming was referring to a Colt .45 revolver, either a double-action New Service model or the single-action Single Action Army.

It's also kind of funny that on the LALD dvd cover, the revolver that is shown is a stainless steel Ruger Redhawk, not a Smith and Wesson nickel model 29. Funny because the Redhawk didn't debut until 1980 or so.

Agree that Moore looks devastating in all black with the shoulder rig and the 29. Very dangerous, indeed.

[Trident]

I believe Colt even produced some service revolvers in .45 ACP during WWII. They were using a kind of speedloader clips and fired the .45 ACP ammo. On the other hand I believe there has been a long-slide version of the .45 auto too. So Fleming could have meant either weapon.

With Scaramangas Colt I'm pretty sure it was a revolver. Bond takes a quick raid on Scaramangas hotel room while the killer is working out on the trampolin. There he finds the gun and takes the "round in the cylinder that would next come up for firing". That clearly refers to a revolver.

[ComplimentsOfSharky]

Yeah I think he even calls it a revolver in TMWTGG at some point. It's just logical since a revolver would be mroe accurate than an automatic of the time.

I'd also guess that Bond's .45 was a revolver since in Dr No he gets a compact automatic (the PPK) and a revolver (S&W Centennial Airweight) to replace his old load out.

[Mark_Hazard]

A) Fleming was referring to a Colt .45 revolver, either a double-action New Service model or the single-action Single Action Army.

It's also kind of funny that on the LALD dvd cover, the revolver that is shown is a stainless steel Ruger Redhawk, not a Smith and Wesson nickel model 29.  Funny because the Redhawk didn't debut until 1980 or so.

A) I don't have access to my books at the moment, but the revolver in "Golden Gun" is depicted on the cover of the Cape version, and I am pretty certain that it a single action type.

If you look at the dvd covers, it appears that all the pistols (and harpoon guun) have been added as an afterthought, they just don't look as if they are being held by the relevant actors.

[Trident]

The S&W Centennial Airweight .38 was Flemings error. He had been in lenghty discussion via letter with a chap called Boothroyd who was a great fan of his books, but as a marksman could not accept Bonds use of the .25 Beretta. Boothroyd voted for a drastical change of Bonds weaponry, or at the very least of the caliber of the Beretta, if he didn't want to give up his connection with the company. Boothroyd stated, the .22 caliber had a higher stopping power due to the lead projectiles than the .25s full metal jacketed ones.

He also recommended several other guns in bigger calibers for different uses. For close-up combat and concealability the Walther was one of his favourites; another one the mentioned Centennial Airweight revolver in .38 caliber.

For long-range shooting he recommended the S&W .357 magnum which could also fire the weaker .38 rounds if necessary. Fleming mixed this up and ended with giving Bond the Walther as personal handgun and the Airweight (which Boothroyd had also suggested as personal gun) for penetrating heavyer stuff or further distanced targets. Fleming was very thankfull for the help Boothroyd had provided and invented a 'Major Boothroyd' as armourer of the service. As he realised his error it was already too late for a change and Fleming and Boothroyd both took the thing in pretty good humour as they both expected gun toters all over the world to correct their false choice of revolver.

[SecretAgent007]

The gun Roger Moore used at the end of LALD was a S&W M-29. They were produced from 1956-1999/2000. It has been replace by a stainless steel version called the 629. (All S&W's models that start with a "6" are stainless) He carried the gun in a Bianchi shoulder holster. The modern version of the shoulder rig is the X-15.

[right idea, wrong pussy]

I noticed on other sites listing the "tributes" in DAD that the gun Bond had at the Los Organos Clinic was the same as the gun Bond used at the end of LALD. That is simply not true. As others have so well established here, Bond uses a .44 Magnum in LALD. I'm not sure what gun he uses in the Cuba portion of DAD, but I think it might be a .45 M1917 or something very much like it M 1917

Edited by right idea, wrong pussy, 20 March 2005 - 11:22 PM.

[Stuart]

Someone on the tribute site is on crack.

The gun in DAD was a blue S&W K frame with fixed sights, in either .38 Special or .357 Magnum (they are hard to tell apart) with a four inch barrel.

The LALD gun was, as noted above, a 6 or 6 1/2" barrel nickel finish M29, which is an N frame gun (larger) with adjustable sights.

[Marc-Ange]

Yeah I think he even calls it a revolver in TMWTGG at some point.  It's just logical since a revolver would be mroe accurate than an automatic of the time.

I'd also guess that Bond's .45 was a revolver since in Dr No he gets a compact automatic (the PPK) and a revolver (S&W Centennial Airweight) to replace his old load out.

The Golden Gun is a revolver. Bond removes a bullet from the next chamber as a possible "edge" against Scaramanga.

[00Twelve]

On a simpler note, does anyone think that the .44 Magnum was used to capitalize on Dirty Harry's popularity? I loved it, myself, and I would never mind seeing Bond with it again.

Edited by 00Twelve, 22 March 2005 - 06:56 AM.

[Bryce (003)]

Stopped by my "quartermaster's" place of business today and he has a blued M29 with the 6.5 barrel.

I'm thinking about it.

Never know when I'm going to have to rescue someone from the un-dead.

The great thing about the .44 in Dirty Harry's hands was that it was a one shot-one kill revolver but with enough control that Harry could actually wing someone.

From the original:

Scorpio Killer: (having just been grazed by Harry in the middle of a stadium)
"You tried to kill me!"

Harry: "If I had tried to kill you your brains would be all over the field. Where's the girl?!"



Wouldn't mind seeing Bond with one again though.

[SecretAgent007]

Since we are on the subject of guns. I thought you guys might like to know that they never used a PPK in Dr. No. All of the "PPK's" in the film are actually PP's. Also, when Bond puts the hushpuppy silencer (there was, nor is any such silencer as the Brausch)on the PPK to kill Dent, the gun is not a PP, or PPK. Anyone want to guess as to what it is. (This will give you an excuse to watch the movie)

[Bryce (003)]

...the gun is not a PP, or PPK.  Anyone want to guess as to what it is.  (This will give you an excuse to watch the movie)

If memory serves, it's a Browning 1910.

[SecretAgent007]

Bingo, Brice. That was too easy.

[Bryce (003)]

Thanks.

...but were you really expecting anything less?

I do have a reputation to maintain....What exactly that is, I'm not sure...

*shrugs*

eh...What're you gonna do?



Good little gun the 1910. I still prefer the 1935 Hi-Power though.

[Almadjian]

Gentlemen:

Stuart is correct in that Scaramanga's .45 seems to be (per the book) a .45 revolver. I believe it is a single action army as a .45 double action wasn't produces until later and I assume Bond had had is for some time.

Trident is right--those clips were nicknamed "half-moon" clips. as you used two, not one with which to reload. Also, besides the reference you mentioned, Bond also shoots Scaramanga's gun at the party and pulls back the hammer to inspect the cylinder.

I think we might be confused about this because, although appropriate for a showy pistolero such as Scaramanga, such a gun has limited practical use, (IMHO). perfect for target shooting, but lacking in power. I've never shot one, I'm going on what I've read or heard from others.

Check out the following link and take a look at the Cove cover: http://www.shatterha...OVELTMWTGG.html

The picture above is on the cover of my Signet p/b version. It shows Scaramanga with a .45 auto.

Regarding Bond's .45:

The confusion lies between the name of the cartridge .45 Long Colt (for the revolver) and the .45 ACP (for the semi-auto). Both have relatively long barrels. Flemming, not the gun expert himself, could have thought that a 5" Colt 1911 was long, (I do). The .45 revolver with a 6" barrel is long too. It also fires the "Long Colt" .45 round. I would think that since Flemming called both Scaramanga's gun and Bonds a long Colt and since Scaramanga's is doubtless a .45 revolver commonly used for shows, etc. Bond's would be too.

Here's where I interject with my own opinion:

The .45 Long Colt is nearly defunct now and was becoming so then. It was used and still is for Cowboy action shooting or for "Annie Oakley" type shows--hence Scaramanga's expertise with them.

For Bond, though, who fought in WW2, which was liberated in part by the American GI with his Colt .45 semi-auto, I would think he had a 5" barreled semi-auto pistol, not a revolver. He would have had access to it and may have even used one during the war, hardly the case with the revolver. the .45 auto is still today, one of the most effective sidearms made, hardly the case for the revolver. Combat troops and officers swear and swore then too, by the .45 auto, not the revolver. Flemming, I say, would probably have gained a relatively high opinion of this weapon as opposed to the revolver.

Let Scaramanga have his cowboy gun, but give Bond a .45 auto.

One final note: Trident, the .22 has marginally equal stopping power when compared to the .25. All factory info given about the .22 is measured from a rifle. Most handgun tests I have reviewed for the .22 in a pistol have been fired from a 5.5" barreled handgun, usually a Ruger. The most reputable .22lr test I have reviewed stated emphatically that .22 and .25 inflict the same wound trama. The problem with the .22 in a pocket gun is reliability--very picky about ammo it will function with, must keep it absolutely spotless so fouling doesn't cause misfires. .22 ammo is dirty. The .22 bullet tumbles and often exits wound channels early, causing a small permanent wound cavity. The .22 wasn't made originally to be magazine-fed and is not as reliable in small automatic pistols for that reason. What really surprises me about Boothroyd's usually infallible opinion is that .22 ammo was crappy back in the day when compared to .25. FMJ vs lead would make little difference except that lead would flatten out more readily than FMJ and thus penetrate less, decreasing the effectiveness of the bullet.

[Trident]

Yes, you're right about the meagre stopping power of the .22 and I could never understand such a recommendation. Although rumour has it, the .22 Beretta is the weapon of choice of the MOSSAD (I can't believe it). But I have to defend Boothroyd against an impression my fallible memory might have made before:

To tell the truth I only remember the story from the german edition of "For Bond Lovers Only". I've read the book some twenty years ago but unfortunately I've lost it somewhere between here and five or six different cities I've lived in since . And now that you mention it I seem to remember, Boothroyd at first tried to convince Fleming of giving Bond a .38 S&W revolver. Fleming stated, Bond uses the Beretta for its easy concealability and shooting (what somehow makes sense), not for its particular stopping power. I believe, Boothroyd then tried to convince Fleming of at least changeing to a .22 revolver. I'm not absolutely sure but I think Boothroyd even mentioned that the .22 auto is a miserable feeder. And the more I think of it the surer I get, Boothroyd was all in all a far greater fan of wheelguns than of automatics and only mentioned the automatics (Sauer, Walther, Tokarev) on Flemings behalf. In fact I'm not sure any longer, Boothroyd recommended namely a .22 Beretta auto.

Edited by Trident, 02 April 2005 - 02:37 PM.

[Almadjian]

Beretta didn't begin making a really good .22 until the model 70 series, which was used by the Mossad. It has an excellent reputation as not jamming (it has an extractor, unlike the smaller 21A. Prior to that the 949 was in .22 but wasn't common, and was larger than the .25 M1919, BTW. I hardly think Boothroyd would have suggested that. As I said, .22 ammo wasn't as good as today's stuff by any means. The .25 was a surer bet and was WIDELY used in small, concealable pistols from the military to civilian use all over the world.

A .22 revolver makes sense-no stoppage problems, no spent casings to pick up. Just ask Bobby Kennedy. The problem with a revolver from Flemming/Bond's standpoint is that it is impossible to satisfactorily silence it. Thus the need for an automatic. The Sauer was a well-made piece. The Tokarev was very popular in eastern block countries but was rather large. The PPK would be a no-brainer when compared to the others he mentioned.

[Trident]

Yes, I remember reading Fleming mentioned a silencer and Boothroyd was against silencers altogether. He found them clumsy and ruining the aim and balance of a gun. And he stated, most people wouldn't recognise the noise of a shot anyway. To reduce the noise if necessary I think Boothroyd recommended special ammo with reduced load (but with an auto you might then have to exchange the spring). Another issue was the question of concealability as Fleming had Bond wearing his gun on a regular basis and found revolvers to be too difficult to conceal (and back in the fifties clothes and pockets used to be far more comfortable and friendly to the needs of a shooter).

In their letters they skipped several topics related to guns such as the weapons of the Resistance and other groups fighting the nazis in WWII. Fleming was very impressed by some of the disguised trick-weapons and I believe Red Grants shooting book was another result of the exchange between Fleming and Boothroyd.

[billy007]

The handgun 007 uses in Cuba in DAD is a Smith & Wesson Model 10 .38 Special revolver with a heavy 4 inch barrel. I'm extremely familar with this weapon,I've carried one for almost 20 years