18 replies to this topic

[Trident]

I hope this wasn't asked and answered somewhere else.

In the Acknowledgments to "FOR SPECIAL SERVICES" Gardner mentions Tony Snare, who researched for him "a short list of motorcars which eventually led to...putting Bond into a Saab." I always wondered which other cars were on this list? Does anybody here have an idea? At that time I imagined Bond in a Porsche, but this cars seems to me by far too obtrusive now. And I downright hated the Bentley although it is the original Bond-brand.

[Qwerty]

Perhaps there's mention of this in the CBn John Gardner-Saab article?

[Righty007]

Zencat, our Saab 900 Turbo expert, may know the answer to this question.

[Qwerty]

http://debrief.comma...showtopic=14677

The article I referred to.

[Trident]

Thanks for the kind information!

[Snake]

I have no idea what a Bentley is. I prefer the Aston Martin V8(The LIving Daylights). I also like WEt Nellie(Lotus Espirit).

[Trident]

In Flemings original novels Bond was driving a 1933 4.5 litres Bentley. The car must have looked similar to this one:

http://www.maserati....C_BentleySS.jpg

After 'Moonraker' Bond drives a Continental 'R'-type convertible like this one:

http://www.oldtimer....der/bentley.gif


The cars are rather oldfashioned classics one hardly sees nowadays. The movies didn't go for the Bentley cars although you can see Connery driving (or rather dining in) one at the beginning of FRWL and another type (was it the sports tourer?) at the beginning of NSNA.

Continuation author John Gardner felt driving a Bentley nowadays (that is: back in the '80s) was a ridiculous thing for a secret agent to do. He put Bond into a Saab 900 turbo, in those days the first 'conventional' car to adopt turbo-technology. Strangely enough, in later novels, from 'Role of Honour' onwards, Gardner didn't feel anything ridiculous by letting Bond inherit a considerable sum of money and then letting him buy a Bentley Mulsanne Turbo. The car looked somthing like this:
http://www.classic-c...big/bentley.gif

In my opinion it's not nearly as classic as the vintage ones. And far more obtrusive and high-profile than the Saab. Thats why I hate it, and hate it thoroughly!

Edited by Trident, 04 March 2005 - 06:18 PM.

[zencat]

Zencat, our Saab 900 Turbo expert, may know the answer to this question.

Afraid I don't. I would like to know the answer to this myself.

[Trident]

Oh, I had hoped so dearly!

Of course it's purely speculative but I'd say the list could have looked something like this (don't mind the order):

-Porsche
either the 928:
http://home.casema.n...924_zijkant.jpg
or the 911:
http://www.porsche-c...3-jan-1a-lg.jpg

-BMW
the 635CSi
http://www.cs-zone.c...del/BMW 631.jpg

-Jaguar
the S-type
http://mclellansauto...otos/B14319.jpg

-Audi
Quattro
http://www.audiquatt...aqprototyp7.jpg

-Jensen Interceptor
http://www.lecollezi...20catalogue.jpg

and of course
-Saab 900 turbo
http://www.saabklubb...v/900/90004.jpg

Porsche, Jaguar and Jensen seem a bit high profile in my opinion but certainly held the Bond-like distinctiveness. Also they sported a considerable sum on the price tag. BMW, Audi and Saab were not exactly cheap either but you wouldn't have to be a millionaire to buy them (and could thus spend more money on security devices).

[marktmurphy]

Good call on the Audi and BMW- definitely had potential. I think the only Jag he would have considered would have been the XJ-S (or even XJ-RS), although the XJCV12 as driven by John Steed would have been a great successor to the Bentley's crown ( http://www.retrocars...desktop640.html ).

[Trident]

Yes, I remember Steed driving a Jaguar XJ in the 'New Avenger' episodes. It looked pretty hefty and powerful to me but I never actually realized it was a Coupe'. Somehow I had the saloon in mind but as I checked it now in my copy of 'The Complete Avengers' it too says it was a Coupe'. Haven't seen the new episodes for quite a while now.

Another choice, although exotic, might have been the Lancia Zagato:
http://mclellansauto...hotos/B6849.jpg
(sorry, don't know the specifications of this model but to me it seems like a model of around 1980)

Also from Italy: the Alfa Romeo "Alfetta" GTV
http://www.seriouswh...V-red-fa-lr.jpg
not a brand new model but still not to be underestimated

Both Lancia and Alfa had Ralley tradition and would have suited Bond as they were no 'ordinary' cars and yet not so exclusive only sheiks from Arabia could drive them.

To mention some Brithish cars of the period:
there has been the Rover SD1 but it was notoriously unreliable and didn't look so fantastic in the bargain:
http://www.classican...SD1/Rover-3.jpg

A complete "outsider" so to speak:
the Range Rover from 1980; very big, not exactly elegant and not easy to handle on regular roads. But it might easily have been "personalized" and is certainly one of the few off-road capable cars of this period whith lots of space for any special items Bond might have needed.
http://www.tobiasull...ars/rr/img6.jpg

The producers of 'The New Avengers' had several problems with starting and operating cars from British Leyland at that time and were very frustrated to say the least. Similar proplems had the crew of 'The Professionals' in the first season. Therefore they changed from Rover to Ford cars. You can still see Body and Doyle driving cars from British Leyland and in later episodes from Ford (the Capri comes to my mind).

Edited by Trident, 05 March 2005 - 11:07 AM.

[marktmurphy]

You're right about British cars of the time being a pretty rough deal and I think you've chosen a good bunch of contenders. Certainly the Range Rover does seem to suit Bond (and again, New Avengers Steed had one!) and a two door model with modifications form Overfinch or the like would be great for him. Pretty much the only other Brit car which would have suited Gardner's Bond seems to be an Aston V8!
My favourites wouldbe the Audi, the 6-series and a bastardised XJ-S, although the RAnge Rover sparks my interest. Good call on all.

[marktmurphy]

How about a Lister XJ-S? They didn't start making them until 87, but it suits Bond's liking for luxury British cars turned into monsters.

[Trident]

Oh yes, that would have been a quality choice! I just checked the Lister out and found this pic:
http://www.captainja...ster_Poster.jpg

Another would have been the Lynx Performer which also was a bit of "monster" with up to 450 hp. Still elegant and yet extremely powerfull:
http://jaguar-xjs.de...x_performer.jpg
And Lynx made custom bodywork for their models as well:
http://www.jag-lover...s/lynx_all.html
So Bond could have ordered almost any kind of interior and exterior he might have wished for.

These cars might well have been Bond models and not only in the novels. They would have looked great in any movie too. Can't tell if they would have been Gardners choice. He seemed to select the Saab for two reasons.
First the then brand new turbo technology used in the new 900 model. And secondly the unobtrusiveness of the Saab as compared to the other cars mentioned above (provided at least some of them really were on the list).

If this kind of "anonymity" was the major aspect for a new Bond car, Gardner might have chosen the Audi, BMW or the Range Rover. If a writer is more inclined to power, elegance and a certain kind of personality a Bond vehicle should have, one might choose among the more luxurious brands. Personally, I think the Range Rover would make a very unobtrusive means of transport for Bond. But the perfect (IMHO) successor to Bonds Bentley (customized too, as we learn in TB and OHMSS) would be the Lister or Lynx.

[David Schofield]

quote=Trident,6 March 2005 - 15:38]
If a writer is more inclined to power, elegance and a certain kind of personality a Bond vehicle should have, one might choose among the more luxurious brands. Personally, I think the Range Rover would make a very unobtrusive means of transport for Bond. But the perfect (IMHO) successor to Bonds Bentley (customized too, as we learn in TB and OHMSS) would be the Lister or Lynx.

[/quote]

Of course this was the whole problem with Gardner and his Bond: didn't have the courage to update Fleming' slightly irresponsible man and instead made him an 80s keep fit fairy - with car to boot.

[eyeinthesky]

I've compiled a list of cars that i doubt made it to the list mentioned above, but are a list of cars i would have liked bond to have driven in the novels in the 1980's:

Aston Martin(james bond's manufacturer of choice)
Lagonda (1976-1990)

Audi
Quattro (4 wheel drive- good in snow - ICEBREAKER)(1983-1989)

Bitter
SC (saloon version)(1979-1984)

Bmw
5 Series (1983-1991)

De Tomaso
Longchamps (1972-1989)

Jaguar
Xjs (1983-1991)
Xjr (1988-1992)

Lancia
Montecarlo (1981-1984)
Gamma coupe (1976-1984)
Thema v6 (1985-1988)

Lotus
Excel (1985-1992)

Maserati
Khamsin (1974-1982)
Kyalami (1976-1983)
Quattroportte 3/royale (1977-1987)

Mercedes Benz
280 (1980-1991)
190 (1983-1993)
300 (1987-1995)
400 (1986-1991)
560 (1986-1991)

Porsche
928 (1986-1994)

Tvr
Tasmin (1980-1984)

[Trident]

I just stumbled about a manufacturer that I didn't even know existed (ok, that's not such a sensation).

It's an extremely exclusive classic brand, yet it looks rather low profile which could be a major advantage and attract the literary Bond's tastes: the Bristol Cars (check them out here: http://www.bristolca....uk/index2.htm) and especially the Blenheim 3 model ( http://www.bristolca...uk/gallery5.htm ). Although it's from the present product range I find it looks quite 80's-stylish.

Gardner's choice from the end-70's/early-80's could have been either a 411 model, the newer 412 or the Brigand/Britannia ( http://www.blenheimg...ex.php/t49.html ). As Bristols come with an exceptionally large price tag Bond might have been forced to acquire a used model, which are considerably less expensive but usually in peak condition. It would have been a nice but rather unconventional pick IMHO and the more I look at the different models, the more I think a Bristol would have been just great. I'm even tempted to revise my opinion regarding the Saab, which is my favourite literary Bond car up to now.

[marktmurphy]

Bristols are lovely: very stylish without being overbearing, but I'd say their image is a bit more of a gentleman's cruiser than the luxurious but utilitarian racer type which Bond usually prefers.

How about a Jensen? I could see him tooling around in an old Interceptor:
http://en.wikipedia....Interceptor.jpg

[Trident]

How about a Jensen? I could see him tooling around in an old Interceptor:
http://en.wikipedia....Interceptor.jpg

Great! Nice find, just the right thing for Bond. I remember Hall's Quiller driving one of these and I myself would even favor the Jensen over an Aston Martin.

Bristols are lovely: very stylish without being overbearing, but I'd say their image is a bit more of a gentleman's cruiser than the luxurious but utilitarian racer type which Bond usually prefers.

Frankly, I didn't even know Bristols existed till last monday. I was zapping through the channels and by chance stopped at an Inspector Lynley. Said Inspector was driving a classic car that I at first glance identified as an old Volvo. Only when somebody mentioned "Bristol" and I had the chance to research via google, I found out about Bristol Cars. Even though I spent a year in London (from 89 to 90) I don't think I ever came across one of these. Or at any rate I didn't notice if I did. Still I have to admit I'm very impressed by their cars. If only Gardner would have used one of these instead of that rather bland Bentley Mulsanne to replace the Saab.

Regarding the gentlemens cruiser image, I'd have suggested a proper souping up by one of the many car tuners. That should take care of any sedate misbehaviour one might expect from a gentlemens cruiser. Otherwise, the only other thing I'd add would be a large caliber gun and Bond would have been back in business.