Jump to content


This is a read only archive of the old forums
The new CBn forums are located at https://quarterdeck.commanderbond.net/

 
Photo

The Beretta .25


16 replies to this topic

#1 J.C.D'Arc

J.C.D'Arc

    Sub-Lieutenant

  • Crew
  • Pip
  • 149 posts
  • Location:Florida, USA

Posted 08 December 2004 - 02:56 AM

Greetings. This is my first (of many, hopefully) post here. I'm wondering if any of you firearms enthusiasts (or others, of course) have ever researched and/or come to a conclusion as to what model of Beretta Bond was supposed to have carried in the first several books. I'm not real familiar with their models from the '50s and before. Can anyone shed some light?

Edited by J.C.D'Arc, 08 December 2004 - 02:58 AM.


#2 Qwerty

Qwerty

    Commander RNVR

  • Commanding Officers
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 85605 posts
  • Location:New York / Pennsylvania

Posted 08 December 2004 - 03:17 AM

Hopefully this answers your question, but it was a Beretta .25 automatic. (That's as far of information I've found about it.)

Here is an interesting article about it, also with some Bond connections.

A very big welcome to the CBn Forums! :)

#3 Mister Asterix

Mister Asterix

    Commodore RNVR

  • The Admiralty
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 15519 posts
  • Location:38.6902N - 89.9816W

Posted 08 December 2004 - 04:42 AM

[mra]I like this guy already. :)

Welcome to CBn, Mr D

#4 J.C.D'Arc

J.C.D'Arc

    Sub-Lieutenant

  • Crew
  • Pip
  • 149 posts
  • Location:Florida, USA

Posted 09 December 2004 - 03:08 AM

Well, I devoted some effort to research today, (translation: I wasted time at work on the internet) and I'm now of the opinion that it was a Beretta "Jetfire" Model 950. That's just my opinion now, though. I'm not exactly married to it.

Thanks for your replies.


#5 SnakeEyes

SnakeEyes

    Lt. Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPip
  • 1946 posts
  • Location:Yorkshire, England

Posted 11 December 2004 - 01:04 AM

Beretta M1935 IIRC.

Horrible little gun from Italys WW2 campaign. Surprisingly popular with allied troops as a trophy though. Probably due to the size it could easily be carried back home in a bag...

Replaced of course with the 'classic' Walther PPK in 7.65mm/.32ACP in DrNo. An equally small and unimpressive firearm, but Bond was only an assasin...

#6 J.C.D'Arc

J.C.D'Arc

    Sub-Lieutenant

  • Crew
  • Pip
  • 149 posts
  • Location:Florida, USA

Posted 12 December 2004 - 02:42 AM

Have a look at this page:

http://www.littlegun... ... 950 gb.htm

That's why I think it was the M950 "Jetfire." The M1934 and M1935 were in .380 and .32, respectively--not .25ACP. There is another candidate, the M1919 ( http://www.littlegun.....201919 gb.htm ) but it's just too clunky-looking for me to imagine Bond carrying it.

Of course, the hole in the case for the M950 "Jetfire" is Bond saying that he'd carried it for 15 years and never missed with it. That would be before manufacturing began on the M950. I choose (for now, anyway) to believe that it's just a mistake on Fleming's part; he assumed that the "Jetfire" had been in production longer than it actually had.

Edited by J.C.D'Arc, 12 December 2004 - 08:57 PM.


#7 J.C.D'Arc

J.C.D'Arc

    Sub-Lieutenant

  • Crew
  • Pip
  • 149 posts
  • Location:Florida, USA

Posted 13 December 2004 - 01:47 AM

Also, thank you for the welcome Qwerty and Mister Asterix.

Edited by J.C.D'Arc, 13 December 2004 - 03:41 PM.


#8 Donovan

Donovan

    Lieutenant

  • Crew
  • PipPip
  • 974 posts

Posted 14 December 2004 - 09:40 AM

I've also seen pictures and technical info on a model 418, which is also a .25 calibre Beretta. I don't really know what the difference between a 950 and 418 is, but the term "jetfire" does ring a bell and it seems only a 950 was a jetfire pistol. So I think you may be right with a 950.

Also, Bond's Beretta had a skeleton grip. This means the grips on the sides were removed to minimize a bulge in the jacket.

#9 J.C.D'Arc

J.C.D'Arc

    Sub-Lieutenant

  • Crew
  • Pip
  • 149 posts
  • Location:Florida, USA

Posted 14 December 2004 - 08:30 PM

From what I gather, the "418" is a variant of the M1919, sort of like a "Vantage" is (often) a variant of an existing Aston Martin model like the DB4 or DB5. The M950 is a newer design than the M1919. (I believe the M950 began manufacture in 1950.) "Jetfire" refers to an M950 that is chambered in .25ACP. There was also an M950 chambered in .22, call the "Minx."

Edited by J.C.D'Arc, 14 December 2004 - 08:32 PM.


#10 right idea, wrong pussy

right idea, wrong pussy

    Sub-Lieutenant

  • Crew
  • Pip
  • 200 posts

Posted 14 December 2004 - 08:38 PM

Of course, the hole in the case for the M950 "Jetfire" is Bond saying that he'd carried it for 15 years and never missed with it.  That would be before manufacturing began on the M950.  I choose (for now, anyway) to believe that it's just a mistake on Fleming's part; he assumed that the "Jetfire" had been in production longer than it actually had.

 



I have to compliment you on your knowledge of firearms, J.C.D'Arc. It's far better than mine, and I am duly impressed.

As for the inconsistancy between the time of the Jetfire's production and how long Fleming has Bond carry the gun, you are almost certainly right, and Fleming just made a mistake. Fleming had many virtues as an author, but scrupulous research and consistency with his timeline were not among them. After all, he had Bond buy a Bently when he would have been 13 or so! So if your lengthy and thorough research conflicts with Fleming, your research is probably right.

#11 ComplimentsOfSharky

ComplimentsOfSharky

    Lt. Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPip
  • 2804 posts
  • Location:Station PGH, Pittsburgh

Posted 16 December 2004 - 02:37 AM

This is something I've thought about quite a bit.

JCDArc presents a good case, but I wouldn't be surprised if Fleming just made it up. He knew the name Beretta and associated .25 with being a compact,light caliber and combined them. I've found that some thriller writers do it all the time. It doesn't really detract anything from the story in this case. Since he says Beretta, most everyone has a vague idea of what to picture, I think. Had he just said 'a small automatic' it may have been disappointing.

Regardless, the Beretta's got a special place for me as the classic Bond gun, even a little bit more than the PPK.

#12 darkpath

darkpath

    Lt. Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPip
  • 2688 posts
  • Location:Stamford, CT

Posted 22 November 2007 - 01:19 AM

I realize that this has long been a dormant discussion and regrettably most of the linked articles have vanished from the respective servers they once sat on; but I did find this intriguing and was wondering if anyone had copies of those articles lying around?

After reading the Fleming books, I'd actually wanted to purchase a Beretta .25 but could not find a Beretta 1919 (Bantam, I think I read them being called) in usable condition at a price I found palatable and even finding a Jetfire in decent shape at an acceptable price eluded me. Consequently, when a Model 20 (I believe this is the correct nomenclature) fell into my lap, I was thrilled even though the poor thing had been grossly maligned and abused before I got it and it was well past the time frame Fleming would have been referring to.

#13 Trident

Trident

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPip
  • 2658 posts
  • Location:Germany

Posted 22 November 2007 - 06:50 AM

While reading this thread I was trying to find some pics of the respective models via google. I stumbled over an article that has several very interesting shots of some Berettas, including a version of the 'taped grip' that Fleming mentions. Unfortunately that article is in Japanese (or so I think, might be Korean or Chinese for all I know). Anyway, maybe some CBners might be interested:


http://images.google.....26rlz=1I7DADE

Edited by Trident, 22 November 2007 - 06:53 AM.


#14 Kilroy6644

Kilroy6644

    Lt. Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPip
  • 2063 posts
  • Location:Saginaw, MI

Posted 22 November 2007 - 01:21 PM

Yep, that's in Japanese. I ran it through Google's translator... boy is that fun :D. It takes a bit of work, but you can generally figure out what they're saying. I did come across a few words that, for whatever reason, were not translated properly. The characters are English, but the words are in what is sometimes known as "Engrish."

DETIKUTIBU (also DITEKUTIBU)- Detective (in reference to the Colt Detective Special)
GURIPPUPANERU - Grip panel
GURIPPUSEFUTI - Grip safety
DISUKONEKUTA - Disconnect
BERETTAPISUTORU - Beretta pistol
GURIPPUTEPU - Grip tape
MANYUARUSEFUTI - Manual safety
BURAUNINGU M1910 - Browning M1910

Here is the translated version. It looks like it only translated half of the page, but we got most of the Beretta discussion. They really did a lot of research to figure out what model Bond carried. If you can figure out what it says, it's pretty interesting.

#15 Trident

Trident

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPip
  • 2658 posts
  • Location:Germany

Posted 22 November 2007 - 04:40 PM

Here is the translated version. It looks like it only translated half of the page, but we got most of the Beretta discussion. They really did a lot of research to figure out what model Bond carried. If you can figure out what it says, it's pretty interesting.


Splendid! Thanks very much for this translation, it's really fun.

#16 RazorBlade

RazorBlade

    Lt. Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPip
  • 1248 posts
  • Location:Austin, TX

Posted 22 November 2007 - 06:41 PM

So what model did Bond carry? I just remember it was a Beretta .25.

#17 Double-0-7

Double-0-7

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3629 posts
  • Location:Muirfield Village, Ohio

Posted 22 November 2007 - 07:45 PM

As I recall from Dr. No, M said it was a "Damned Beretta Again". Not much for marketing to work with, but memorable!