134 replies to this topic

[Loomis]

I'll take the Timothy Dalton economy of humour anyday over stupid cracks like that. Are stupid lines like that be the writer's attempt to make Brosnan "fun" to watch? Also, how about keeping Bond in character? He never gave a damn about Q's feelings..

I think it's a classic example of writing-by-committee: the "joke" is there simply because "the formula" dictates its presence. Wouldn't surprise me if there's an Eon rule stating that in every x minutes of chase/gunfight action there must be at least 2.4 sight gags and 3.0 verbal jokes.

In other words: "This is great stuff, but we can't have Bond's car sliced in half without a quip in response from Bond." "Why not?" "Well, we just can't. Add a quip, please." "But maybe the scene would play better without a joke from Bond? After all, cutting the car in two counts as a sight gag, surely?" "No, put a joke in. Audiences would expect it."

Besides, it's an exceptionally lame line - couldn't they think of anything funnier than "Q's not going to like this"? Doesn't even make sense - after all, Q's not the one whose transport has just been trashed and who may only have seconds to live.

[Icephoenix]

I found it funny - even in the face of danger he's worried about Q giving him an earfull when he get's back

[Tarl_Cabot]

I guess the martini glass is half full for you Icepheonix.

[Double-Oh-Zero]

Then there's the forced humor with Robbie Coltrane flailing in caviar. This is another aspect of the inconsistent tone Loomis speaks of. You could sort of see Zukovsky as a somewhat powerful gangster in GE, but somebody thought it would be more amusing to make fun of him. It reminds me of when they turned the Marcus Brody character into a buffoon in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. Did they really miss a Jack Wade type that much they needed to do this?

Yes, Zukovsky in TWINE isn't the Zukovsky of GE. It's a much watered down version, with him becoming almost strictly comic relief. The Zukovsky I liked did not have a goatee (he appeared more dangerous without it), but more importantly, resembled the kind of shady, ex-KGB character that could be a powerful gangster. The Zukovsky of TWINE seems too polished. Yes, he is now a "legitimate businessman", but he no longer seems dangerous. He is tamed, and hardly bitter and cynical as he was before (I liked the character in GE, and I liked the staging of the first meeting between the two). He and Bond retain their sort of I help you-you help me, reluctant partnership, but he is a little too affectionate toward Bond for my liking. It may be something in Robbie Coltrane's performance. I'm not sure. But the character didn't seem the same when I watched TWINE, and that was part of the disappointment.

I hear you both, but I thought it was great at the end when Zukovsky starts going on a killing spree to avenge his nephew. Also very noble of him to help Bond out in his last moments of life, despite his smirk being a little too sentimental.

Still, I agree that Zukovsky's involvement in the film seemed rather forced. I don't see why he just couldn't pop up as a corrupt arms dealer like in GE, and leave out the bits with his nephew and owning the casino and caviar factory and all that.

[Qwerty]

I found it funny - even in the face of danger he's worried about Q giving him an earfull when he get's back

I found his expression to it rather good. The cut to Zukovsky's grin was pretty fun stuff.

[[dark]]

I found it funny - even in the face of danger he's worried about Q giving him an earfull when he get's back

Well put, Icephoenix. I find it to be a genuinely funny moment. Probably the funniest quip in the film, actually. That, or, "The insurance company is never going to believe this!"

[Turn]

I think the Q comment is appropriate considering the scene is less than serious in a movie that takes itself way too seriously.

I compare it in a way to the scene in Moonraker where Bond uses the explosive in his watch to blow the ventilation system so he can escape being incinerated by Moonraker 5. After he blows it, he quips "Right on time." I think that situation was a bit more serious, though in a movie that doesn't take itself seriously.

In a similar film, DAF, when Bond is using the piton gun to scale his way to Whyte's penthouse, he quips "So help me Q if if I fall, I'll kill you." Either the line was cut or never used at all. I liked the way the sequence worked without the dialogue.

Another thing on the Zukovsky scene at Elektra's. I find it hard to swallow that he is shot and dying, but still a steady enough shot that he can shoot the restraint off Bond's hand accurately enough to free him.

[MattofSteel]

How I look at TWINE honestly depends on the kind of day I'm having.

It was a fresh script from Purvis & Wade, one that was a little complicated - but I enjoyed that. It actually made you think, gave some substance to the explosions.

What drags this film down for me is that Renard was, quite simply, the most WASTED villain in Bond history. He can't feel pain, and except for a bullet grazing his shoulder and a hot rock in his hand once - this is almost never used. Potentially the coolest device to go along with a Bond villain, and it feels like an ancillary note.

Great Bond girls though. Denise Richards could have been given better lines, or just delivered in a less cheesy fashion. One or the other.

Brosnan, though. Top of his game.

[DLibrasnow]

I never hated it as much as you or Darren but it has some flaws that keep it very low on the totem pole for me but my reaction wasn't nearly as bitter as I felt after 'Die Another day'.DAD was my TWINE.

When TWINE was being filmed I had so many reasons to be excited based on advanced publicity: I loved Sophie Marceau,Cigar girl(Maria...? from 'Il Postino')and Robert Carlysle was also awesome in 'Trainspotting' and 'The Full Monty'. I knew Denise Richard's was eye candy but she was hot;I just didn't expect her role to be so ridiculously inappropriate for Denise's "talents"(would it kill us all and end the feminist movement forever to just have one bimbo Bond girl for a change?).

As for Carlysle's character, I was expecting him to be a Balkin version of 'Carlos the Jackal'.That seemed to be how he was being built up. I didn't expect him to be such an irrelevant and impotent(literally) character. A total waste of a cool actor and I think his career still hasn't recovered.

I was also anticipating the "third time is a charm" law of Bond history to play out for Brosnan. It didn't. This wasn't Goldfinger or The Spy who loved me. It wasn't even close. Brosnan's best moments come at the very beginning of the pretitle in Spain. He is genuinely  cool and threatening. His James Bond hadn't fully arrived for me until that scene but then something happens after that credits are done. His Bond turns into a wimpy, p-wipped drip. I can't stand him in this film. Seeing him indignant just doesn't feel right; he's also bored out of his skull too and has too much makeup on (but those are minor quibbles). I blame Apted, who was grossly mis-hired as a director. What were they thinking hiring a chic movie director? Is being brittish all that matters to them?

So, Bond goes to a casino and doesn't gamble.I hate the gadgets, especially that puffy jacket which looks like a giant human buttocks.The ski action is contrived and dull compared to past snow stuff we've scene.The locales are dull and recycled, again.The last line made the audience groan with embarrassment, even the teens thought it was a lame comment.

Yes,The film is dull and joyless as you say.I still watched the first 3 minutes because it's terrific stuff but that's all I care to rewatch.

I agree with every single comment you make Tarl. Other than that my thoughts on this abomination of a movie are well known.

[Brian Flagg]

Don't know how much more can be added to this thread, but I re-read it today and have to say it's probably one of the more insightful, interesting and civilized threads I've had the pleasure of following and contributing to since I've been here at CBn. Bravo!

[JimmyBond]

A horribly disjointed film. Has some great dramatic moments that feel out of place among the over the top action sequences...of which only the boat chase is really exciting. All the other action scenes are pretty mediocre. A film that has no idea what it's trying to be.

Definately my least favorite of the Brosnan Bond's, and probably of the whole sereies.

[RITZ]

5 years - doesn't time fly

I saw this film in the cinema 7 times(Really, i did). At the time I was very excited and had just started to really get into the world of Bond. I'd watched all the making-of documentaries, bought the magazine artiicles, and seen all the promtional material and advertising. What impressed me most about this film at the time was the music, Brosnan's mannerisms and the action. I saw TND and automatically declared Brosnan as "the best James Bond" in my personal diary(I think the BMW's did it for me lol). He bought a lot style and "suaveness" to Bond - so naturally I was eager to see Brozza's latest offering. As a modern Bond movie - it worked 100%. I liked it alot and it looked great on the big screen.

After the film, I began to really study and appreciate the older Bond films and Fleming's Bond from the books. Then I sucumbed to Dalton - I really thought he captured the essential character of Bond.

I havent watched TWINE from start to finish since it came on british tv a few years back. Today its a different story altogether. I took a sabatical from Bond for a while and then came back when DAD was announced as the new film.

If I decide to watch TWINE again today, I know for a fact that I wont enjoy the whole movie and will find it difficult to sit through. Perhaps i've become a mature Bond fan lol. Its hard to place TWINE with Brozza's other 007's - If I had to choose I would place it second after Goldeneye.

Isnt it funny how your opinion of a Bond movie can change dramatically over a certain period of time? Ive found this with many other Bond films.

[MattofSteel]

I agree Ritz, for the most part my opinion of a particular Bond movie depends largely on the kind of mood I'm in (Although the classics rarely deviate from their plateaus of greatness). Whoa that sounded cheesy....

I was equally hyped for TWINE, as I joined the Bond fan ranks after GoldenEyE 64, TWINE, was my first REAL Bond movie (IE Got to see the movie in theatres, etc.) At the time I was overjoyed, but as time goes on, the flaws become more evident.

I still liked it though. A wasted villain, and a wasted ski scene that served no real purpose.

Good movie, I'd give it a B- as a Bond film. But it could have been so much more!

Matt

[Turn]

Isnt it funny how your opinion of a Bond movie can change dramatically over a certain period of time? Ive found this with many other Bond films.

You've hit on why it's fun to be a Bond fan -- being able to change your mind and opinion. Being a CBn member has helped me appreciate certain things about the Bond world more and in other ways made me feel I wasn't alone in other opinions.

[YOLT]

People who dont like TWINE dont understand that this way or that way a film like TWINE was a must, it has to be done. I totally agree that TWINE could have been better especially the action scenes. If you watch TWINE after Moonraker it seems as the worst Bond film, but if you watch it after For Your Eyes Only it seems OK.