24 replies to this topic

[CharlieBind]

Watching the excellent Harry Palmer movie BILLION DOLLER BRAIN the other night, it struck me that the Bond series has never had an American villan. Even when American actors played such roles (such as Telly Savalas and Chris Walken), they play characters who are not American in origin.

Would an American villan be a good idea? Who would you like to see play such a bad guy?

[hrabb04]

Christopher Walken again, but with more cowbell.

[Gabe Vieira]

Wasn't Elliot Carver American? In the original script he was British, but I thought he was American in the film. Brad Whitaker was American. Whatever. Anyways, I don't think that an American as a villain would work very well unless he was a character like Carver or Whitaker, and neither was a great character. The reason I think that the villains were from other countries is that they, the countries, have a "better" history to base villains off of. Viktor Zokaz was a Bosnian terorist, Tan-Sun Moon was a rogue Korean Colonel, Alec Trevelyan's parents were Lienz Cossacks, Francisco Scaramanga was Cuban-British and that's alot of history there, Ernst Blofeld was Polish so he has alot to be mad about, and Karl Stromburg was German so he has even more to be mad about. Those countries just have more history to them, so it's easier to pick out "occupations" for the villian; Yugoslavian terrorist, neo-Nazi, rogue communist general, Hitlerite wanting revenge, and so on. America doesn't have much to use except a Ted Turner-Alexander the Great combonation and a character that should have been Middle-Eastern. The only think that I think could work is a gigantic pharmaceutical company that is really a bunch of eco-terrorists who is in league with a security company that's seting up terrorist attcks to get a contract for security at the Summer Olympics games, and release the deadliest biological attack that will lay dormant for six months, then kill the host, then move one to the next victim, and only the eco-terrorists will survive because only they have the cure. But that's all ready been used

[Loomis]

Would an American villan be a good idea? 

An American villain? Are you crazy? It's difficult enough as it is to get US audiences interested in the adventures of this limey spy (I believe Americans are, on the whole, somewhat less fanatical about Bond than other peoples, with the films always doing sensational business internationally but usually merely respectable business Stateside - DIE ANOTHER DAY failed to rank among the top 10 US theatrical grossers of its year). That's why MGM insisted on hiring the likes of Teri Hatcher, Denise Richards and Halle Berry.

An American villain - and I mean a main villain, rather than a Whitaker-style subordinate or the sort of American minor villain or henchman you can find dotted about the series - is not entirely out of the question, but you can bet your bottom dollar that, if they did go for a main baddie from the States, there'd be a Jinx-style American main Bond girl and probably a few other sympathetic American characters on the side of right and virtue in order to balance things out. I mean, a British hero teaming up with a couple of foxy Euro babes to take out an American villain? Can't see Hollywood greenlighting that one, and the Bonds, let us never forget, are Hollywood movies.

(Thought: perhaps Felix Leiter's entirely useless role in THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS is purely to provide pro-US balance in the face of the evil Whitaker.)

Going off on a bit of a tangent, but is FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE the only Bond film in which there are no American characters at all? I think it may be, but I'd be grateful if someone would correct me if I'm wrong on this one.

BTW, Gabe Vieira, no offence, but how could you have thought Carver American? Is it just my hearing, or does Jonathan Pryce deliver his lines in a plummy English accent? Have you seen TOMORROW NEVER DIES only once?

[Loomis]

Who would you like to see play such a bad guy?

James Woods springs to mind immediately. Also James Gandolfini and, while he'd almost certainly not be interested, Sylvester Stallone.

[Gabe Vieira]

BTW, Gabe Vieira, no offence, but how could you have thought Carver American? Is it just my hearing, or does Jonathan Pryce deliver his lines in a plummy English accent? Have you seen TOMORROW NEVER DIES only once?

For starters, I knew that Pryce was English, but I never heard an accent on his character. They never mentioned where Carver was from, but he did say that he worked in Hong Kong when he was younger, so that could implacate that he was British. Also, I always saw CMGN as a metaphor of CNN, both being the world leaders in there own realms; CNN is American. In the beginning of the film, Carver asks Mr. Wallace to "call the President. Tell him if he doesn't sign the bill lowering the cable rates, we will release the video of him with the cheerleader in the Chicago motel room." I'm assumeing he means the American President. After all, I doubt he wants the cable rates in France lowered. That's why I thought he was American.

[Double-Oh-Zero]

I personnally am not really interested in seeing an American villain.

One of the things I always look forward to is hearing the long-winded story from the villain about his upbringings in the circus from some small country we've never heard of, and the actor's attempt to match the accent. Always gives me a chuckle.

[Scottlee]

I'd be up for an American villain so long as the main Bond girl was NOT American, cos' I'm getting pretty bored of USA Bond girls.

Bond hasn't even been on American soil since 1989, so to take on a Yank villain would be cool.

[Von Hammerstein]

I'm American and I can tell you as long as the film doesn't preach UN multilateralism then an American villain is as good as any other. Though I prefer the villians with their "foreign" accents. "Gud bye, Mister Bund!" But an American billionaire businessman who plans to place WMD's into the hands of rogue Arab states knowing that the US will conquer them and leave him open to trillions in contracts for oil,infrastructure repairs and controlling interest in the Middle East , sounds like a real Bond villian to me. He just have to have the requisite hulking henchman, a gorgeous mistress and/or a female villain Bond can turn to his side as only he can. And of course he must be a challenge for Bond not some boorish buffoon charicture but some onew refined like North East "old money" jetsetter, or even a suave Texas oil man who appears "aw shucks" but is really quite shrewd. Any of this would work. Remember it's the person whose the villian, not the country. So if my guidelines were to be followed you wouldn't see American's banning the film like Korea did DAD.

[Bondian]

On a 'lieter' side ( ). Some may consider George W. Bush a Villain!!!. So, why not have a 'bent' American President as the main Villain?.

Good thing would be, our British Prime Minister would have to die. Oh joy, oh bliss!!!.

Bond 21 could be called "All The Presidents HenchMEN.

OK, I've only had one coffee today so far, what can you expect.


Dunka,

Ian

[Icephoenix]

Why can't we have a villian from somewhere else then the US and UK? (But even oriental villians for the time being )

[Bondian]

Why can't we have a villian from somewhere else then the US and UK? (But even oriental villians for the time being )

That's true. How about a Villain from Helsinki who wants to 'Finnish' off the world?.

Ah, sorry about that!.

[Max Zorin]

I'd personally like to see a CANADIAN villain!

What? We can totally be evil.

[ComplimentsOfSharky]

I'd personally like to see a CANADIAN villain!

What?  We can totally be evil.

The plot for the next Bond movie deals with Quebec Separatists trying to hold the Canadian government hostage.

[Max Zorin]

Ah, perhaps Bond can take on the FLQ.

[ComplimentsOfSharky]

What a thriller...


-You see Mr Bond, all we wish is to be recognized as the French nation we are.

-Am I really here for any reason? Can I just leave?

-HAHAHAHHAHAHAHA NO Mr Bond, I'm afriad.... wait sure what the hell do we care?

-Can I take that girl with me?

-Why not? *Bond theme plays -roll end creidts

[Loomis]

An American villain - and I mean a main villain, rather than a Whitaker-style subordinate or the sort of American minor villain or henchman you can find dotted about the series - is not entirely out of the question, but you can bet your bottom dollar that, if they did go for a main baddie from the States, there'd be a Jinx-style American main Bond girl and probably a few other sympathetic American characters on the side of right and virtue in order to balance things out. I mean, a British hero teaming up with a couple of foxy Euro babes to take out an American villain? Can't see Hollywood greenlighting that one, and the Bonds, let us never forget, are Hollywood movies. ...

... Going off on a bit of a tangent, but is FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE the only Bond film in which there are no American characters at all? I think it may be, but I'd be grateful if someone would correct me if I'm wrong on this one.

Hmmm.... I guess ON HER MAJESTY'S SECRET SERVICE does feature a British hero teaming up with foxy Euro babes to take out an American villain. And no good guys or gals from the States at all in that film, if I'm not mistaken.*

OTOH, there's the argument that Blofeld shouldn't be considered an American character, even when played by an American actor speaking with an American accent (and neither should we allow Charles Gray's plummy English tones to fool us into believing Blofeld's a Brit). In that case, FRWL is not the only Bond flick in which there are no Americans to be seen.

*Can't see it happening today, though.

[Loomis]

In that case, FRWL is not the only Bond flick in which there are no Americans to be seen.

*Remembers the casino scene in OHMSS*

"Dame can't pay up."

Okay, then, FRWL is the only Bond flick in which there are no Americans to be seen.

Probably.

[Agent 76]

no american villains for now.
I want to see some wicked european villain next movie.

[The_Mole]

Why is it always European, Russian or Korean villains?

Have an American villain for once.

The reason why there aren't many American villians, even in other American films (Die Hard for example employs Alan Rickman as Hans Gruber) is that Americans do not like to consider themselves evil, or even capable of being evil. Remember, Americans are 'nice people' (no offence intended).

America also feels that it has to protect the innocence of its citizens, which is why in all action films the protagonist is almost always American (Bruce Willis, Die Hard) fighting against a foreigner of some kind, that threatens America as a country.

That is the subtext: Die Hard, for example, is not about German terrorists hijacking a building; it's based on the concept of an invasion of America and its struggle to fight back single-handedly. Maybe you should all look at films a little closer on repeat viewings and ask yourself why.

I have nothing against Americans, or anyone for that matter. Just giving an insight into the world of Film Studies. Not everything is as it seems in the world of psycho-analysis (and that's not analysing Hitchcock's Psycho, for those in a joke mood).

[hrabb04]

Let's go offbeat and unpredictable...

Dan Aykroyd

Anthony Edwards

Tom Sizemore, if they can get him out of jail

[Bondian]

I know this has been brought up before, Kevin Spacey would make a fantastic Villain. He has so much depth and charisma and I could honestly envisage him as a down-to-earth heartless power crazed git!.

Hell, get him singing the theme tune as well, this chaps so multi-talented.

Cheers,

Ian

[Seannery]

Why is it always European, Russian or Korean villains?

Have an American villain for once.

The reason why there aren't many American villians, even in other American films (Die Hard for example employs Alan Rickman as Hans Gruber) is that Americans do not like to consider themselves evil, or even capable of being evil. Remember, Americans are 'nice people' (no offence intended).

America also feels that it has to protect the innocence of its citizens, which is why in all action films the protagonist is almost always American (Bruce Willis, Die Hard) fighting against a foreigner of some kind, that threatens America as a country.

That is the subtext: Die Hard, for example, is not about German terrorists hijacking a building; it's based on the concept of an invasion of America and its struggle to fight back single-handedly. Maybe you should all look at films a little closer on repeat viewings and ask yourself why.

I have nothing against Americans, or anyone for that matter. Just giving an insight into the world of Film Studies. Not everything is as it seems in the world of psycho-analysis (and that's not analysing Hitchcock's Psycho, for those in a joke mood).

Nah. I have no problem with an American villian and if you look at Hollywood pictures they have lots of American villians in fact that is the politically correct thing to do--to have establishment types in business, government as corrupt and power hungry. While also having Americans of all stripes being mean and nasty.

In no way is it always the Americans as the good guys. Die Hard is just one film and of course you will have non-american villians but you have TONS of American villians and Americans are fine with that. Just one example to go with your Die Hard--Die Hard 2 had the main villian as an American.

So no, Americans wouldn't mind an American villain in a Bond film as long as the film is good. They are used to "American villains" and films that are self critical of the USA and they often love them. In fact one can argue that our films overdo the negativity--But that is debatable. Of course you have rah rah American films too but more often you get a lot of darker ones. It's just a fact.

Edited by Seannery, 27 November 2004 - 08:39 PM.

[hrabb04]

Using that same example, what about Bruce Willis playing a bad guy, and Richard Gere being Irish in the Jackal?

[Prav_007]

I'd personally like to see a CANADIAN villain!

What?  We can totally be evil.

We can be violent(Hockey)and peace-friendly(Suez Canal Crisis).