35 replies to this topic

[RevolveR]

After a long gap, I finally read Benson's final full Bond novel "The Man With The Red Tattoo" and I felt like it was lacking. In both "Never Dream Of Dying" and "Tattoo" Benson seemed to rely on old Fleming characters to liven up the novel rather than comomg up with his own. Also, the overall plot of "Tattoo" was generic and very boring.

I concluded that Raymond Benson, as much as I love his early works, just ran out of new Bond ideas.

[Qwerty]

I disagree. Never Dream Of Dying and The Man With The Red Tattoo both seem fresh to me.He just had that deal of sometimes using older characters.

[zencat]

I disagree. Never Dream Of Dying and The Man With The Red Tattoo both seem fresh to me.He just had that deal of sometimes using older characters.

Ditto. I though Benson was going from strenght to strenght. NDOD was my favorite of all his books and I love TMWTRT. Shame we never got a Benson #7...and #8...and...

Although Benson has said he was getting a bit tired and was going to ask for a year's break. Remember, he also wriote 3 novelizations and 4 short stories during this time. Quite an output.

[RevolveR]

I dind't say that "Never Dream Of Dying" didn't have a fresh plot. On the contrary it was just stupid with the turning of Draco.

But the plot of "Tattoo" was too generic. Terrorist attacks using mutated viruses is getting really old. The whole insect concept isn't even original! We all know that mosquitoes carry diseases. Even the villains are weak. Very few aspects of the book pleased me.

[Qwerty]

I disagree. Never Dream Of Dying and The Man With The Red Tattoo both seem fresh to me.He just had that deal of sometimes using older characters.

Ditto. I though Benson was going from strenght to strenght. NDOD was my favorite of all his books and I love TMWTRT. Shame we never got a Benson #7...and #8...and...

I agree. He had alot left in him IMO.

[RevolveR]

I disagree. Never Dream Of Dying and The Man With The Red Tattoo both seem fresh to me.He just had that deal of sometimes using older characters.

Ditto. I though Benson was going from strenght to strenght. NDOD was my favorite of all his books and I love TMWTRT. Shame we never got a Benson #7...and #8...and...

Although Benson has said he was getting a bit tired and was going to ask for a year's break. Remember, he also wriote 3 novelizations and 4 short stories during this time. Quite an output.

Zencat, trust me I am a huge Benson fan. I wish he would have continued also. I just found his last 2 books, especially TMWTRT to be flawed in a lot of ways.

[zencat]

I disagree. Never Dream Of Dying and The Man With The Red Tattoo both seem fresh to me.He just had that deal of sometimes using older characters.

Ditto. I though Benson was going from strenght to strenght. NDOD was my favorite of all his books and I love TMWTRT. Shame we never got a Benson #7...and #8...and...

Although Benson has said he was getting a bit tired and was going to ask for a year's break. Remember, he also wriote 3 novelizations and 4 short stories during this time. Quite an output.

Zencat, trust me I am a huge Benson fan. I wish he would have continued also. I just found his last 2 books, especially TMWTRT to be flawed in a lot of ways.

Actually, I think Benson might agree with you. He seems to not be as fond of TMWTRT as he is his other books. It was the most edited of all his books and, as I said he was tried. But, IMO, I think it's one of his best "traditional" Bond thrillers and location-wise Benson is at the top of his game in this book. But, you know, it's all a matter of taste. I need to re-read all the Bensons as I did the Gardners and see if my opinions change. But I remember loving TMWTRT when I read it in '02. As much as I enjoyed DAD, TMWTRT was the better Bond "movie" that year, again, IMO.

[RevolveR]

I disagree. Never Dream Of Dying and The Man With The Red Tattoo both seem fresh to me.He just had that deal of sometimes using older characters.

Ditto. I though Benson was going from strenght to strenght. NDOD was my favorite of all his books and I love TMWTRT. Shame we never got a Benson #7...and #8...and...

Although Benson has said he was getting a bit tired and was going to ask for a year's break. Remember, he also wriote 3 novelizations and 4 short stories during this time. Quite an output.

Zencat, trust me I am a huge Benson fan. I wish he would have continued also. I just found his last 2 books, especially TMWTRT to be flawed in a lot of ways.

Actually, I think Benson might agree with you. He seems to not be as fond of TMWTRT as he is his other books. It was the most edited of all his books and, as I said he was tried. But, IMO, I think it's one of his best "traditional" Bond thrillers and location-wise Benson is at the top of his game in this book. But, you know, it's all a matter of taste. I need to re-read all the Bensons as I did the Gardners and see if my opinions change. But I remember loving TMWTRT when I read it in '02. As much as I enjoyed DAD, TMWTRT was the better Bond "movie" that year, again, IMO.

Yes, indeed I could easily visualize TMWTRT on the big screen. I should also go back and read all of the Bensons again and then see if my opinion of TMWTRT changes.

As for Gardner, I've never read him, but I intend to get to that soon!

[zencat]

As for Gardner, I've never read him, but I intend to get to that soon!

Very hit and miss...but in this era of no new (adult) Bond books, I envy that you have undiscovered Bond adventures to read. If you get the chance, also read Pearson's The Authorized Biography of 007. It's a real gem.

[Qwerty]

As for Gardner, I've never read him, but I intend to get to that soon!

Very hit and miss...but in this era of no new (adult) Bond books, I envy that you have undiscovered Bond adventures to read. If you get the chance, also read Pearson's The Authorized Biography of 007. It's a real gem.

I second that. Start at the beginning, some of his early books are his very best.

[James Boldman]

[quote name='RevolveR' date='31 August 2004 - 05:37'] After a long gap, I finally read Benson's final full Bond novel "The Man With The Red Tattoo" and I felt like it was lacking.

Edited by James Boldman, 31 August 2004 - 11:09 AM.

[James Boldman]

I need to re-read all the Bensons as I did the Gardners and see if my opinions change. But I remember loving TMWTRT when I read it in '02. As much as I enjoyed DAD, TMWTRT was the better Bond "movie" that year, again, IMO.

I too need to re-read Benson's (and Gardner's for that matter), as I would be interested to see if my views change. When I read TMWTRT, in '02 I read it in just 2 days (and that's quick for me), I was so enthralled by it!

Edited by James Boldman, 31 August 2004 - 11:20 AM.

[Qwerty]

I disagree. Never Dream Of Dying and The Man With The Red Tattoo both seem fresh to me.He just had that deal of sometimes using older characters.

Ditto. I though Benson was going from strenght to strenght. NDOD was my favorite of all his books and I love TMWTRT. Shame we never got a Benson #7...and #8...and...

Although Benson has said he was getting a bit tired and was going to ask for a year's break. Remember, he also wriote 3 novelizations and 4 short stories during this time. Quite an output.

Zencat, trust me I am a huge Benson fan. I wish he would have continued also. I just found his last 2 books, especially TMWTRT to be flawed in a lot of ways.

I find The Man With The Red Tattoo to be one of Benson's weakest books as well. It just did not grab me like his recent past books Doubleshot and Never Dream Of Dying did. That said though, the book is still a very good Bond book. In my opinion, Benson never crashed and burned with any of his novels. Some were lesser than others, but all of them are enjoyable.

[Loomis]

Actually, I think Benson might agree with you. He seems to not be as found of TMWTRT as he is his other books. It was the most edited of all his books

TMWTRT the most edited? Must be why I like it so much. By contrast, "High Time to Kill", which I consider dire, seems not to have been edited at all (or maybe they printed the first draft by mistake).

TMWTRT may well be Benson's best (and would make a fantastic film - and who else but Takeshi Kitano as Goro Yoshida?). zencat is correct in stating that "location-wise Benson is at the top of his game in this book", and his handling of Japan seems spot-on.

Not a perfect book by any means, and certainly not Fleming (or Amis), but definitely one of the most enjoyable of the (mostly mediocre) post-1980 continuation novels.

[Qwerty]

Actually, I think Benson might agree with you. He seems to not be as found of TMWTRT as he is his other books. It was the most edited of all his books

TMWTRT the most edited? Must be why I like it so much. By contrast, "High Time to Kill", which I consider dire, seems not to have been edited at all (or maybe they printed the first draft by mistake).

I believe it was edited, but very poorly. It's a shame really, since it's such a great book IMO.

To spend so little time on editing doesn't make sense though.

[Loomis]

I believe it was edited, but very poorly.

Yes, that's my point.

[RevolveR]

Ok, location wise, TMWTRT is good. Benson handles Japan well, but we can't expect anyhitng less from him as good as he is.

It's just the overall plot and like many of you mentioned, poor editing. Bond gets catpured by the Yakuza so many times that I lost count. It also seemed foolish how he continually loses his PPK and magically Tiger replaces it. It's almost laughable.

[Qwerty]

Ok, location wise, TMWTRT is good. Benson handles Japan well, but we can't expect anyhitng less from him as good as he is.

It's just the overall plot and like many of you mentioned, poor editing. Bond gets catpured by the Yakuza so many times that I lost count. It also seemed foolish how he continually loses his PPK and magically Tiger replaces it. It's almost laughable.

I strongly recommend you read some of John Gardner then and compare. It might be interesting to see which of the two authors you prefer more.

They both have their good and bad books I suppose.

[Jim]

His ideas were never the issue.

[License To Kill]

His ideas were never the issue.

Then what was it, Jim? Elaborate.

[Jim]

The expression of the ideas.

[RevolveR]

Ok, location wise, TMWTRT is good.  Benson handles Japan well, but we can't expect anyhitng less from him as good as he is.

It's just the overall plot and like many of you mentioned, poor editing.  Bond gets catpured by the Yakuza so many times that I lost count.  It also seemed foolish how he continually loses his PPK and magically Tiger replaces it.  It's almost laughable.

I strongly recommend you read some of John Gardner then and compare. It might be interesting to see which of the two authors you prefer more.

They both have their good and bad books I suppose.

Well I intend to read Gardner from the start since I haven't yet. Again, I love Benson and TMWTRT is his only book that I'm not very fond of. NDOD is weak IMO, but I still enjoyed reading it.

[Loomis]

The expression of the ideas.

I suppose Glidrose/Ian Fleming Publications controlled the literary franchise as tightly as Eon controls the film franchise. In other words, no auteurs, please - just crank something out to a regular schedule and don't upset the applecart. Don't think, or, if you must, think "product", not "art".

[License To Kill]

Look at all the quality stuff he had in The Facts Of Death and Zero Minus Ten. Then look at his stuff in, lets say, The Man With The Red With The Tattoo. It's just not as developed as the former two I mentioned. Those two were a joy to read, but with TMWRT it seemed like a chore. I felt like I was reading YOLT (the movie) with a premise that has been done quite often (biological warfare).

[Qwerty]

[quote name='RevolveR' date='31 August 2004 - 10:40'] [quote name='Qwerty' date='31 August 2004 - 14:30'] [quote name='RevolveR' date='31 August 2004 - 10:28'] Ok, location wise, TMWTRT is good.

[RevolveR]

[quote name='Qwerty' date='31 August 2004 - 14:46'] [quote name='RevolveR' date='31 August 2004 - 10:40'] [quote name='Qwerty' date='31 August 2004 - 14:30'] [quote name='RevolveR' date='31 August 2004 - 10:28'] Ok, location wise, TMWTRT is good.

[Qwerty]

Many of his books are very good, so you won't be dissapointed IMO.

[BONDFINESSE 007]

I really did enjoy his bond books a lot and wish he were still doing them, sadly i guess it will be awhile before someone does anymore "good" bond books

[Qwerty]

I really did enjoy his bond books a lot and wish he were still doing them, sadly i guess it will be awhile before someone does anymore "good" bond books

More than ever will it be time to go back and do some rereading. Still, at least we've got something in the Young James Bond books coming.

[RevolveR]

DO we know how long the wait might be before we have some "fresh" literature?