25 replies to this topic

[Qwerty]

Straightforward thread, hopefully this will encourage more of you to read Diamonds Are Forever and get some reviews going here.

Which is better: Diamonds Are Forever or Diamonds Are Forever?

They're both, almost always from a general standpoint, looked upon as being slightly less. Diamonds Are Forever can sometimes be said to be the first letdown for a Bond film, while Diamonds Are Forever can be said to be the weakest of Fleming's earlier books. Common complaints are that he focuses too much on location jumping, and that it disrupts the flow of the book itself.

Personally, I find Diamonds Are Forever to be one of Ian Fleming's most underrated Bond novels ever. It's most definitely not the best of his, but it can in no way be the worst either, IMO. Truthfully, and again IMO, there really isn't a bad Fleming novel. They're all either outstanding, good, or fair. This one is a good one. I liked the locations, and I don't think they caused too much of a problem with the book. The villains, well yes they could have been better.

With the film, my judgement very often changes or varies slightly on this one. I like it, no doubt there. It isn't one that would make my top 5 or so. With Diamonds Are Forever, you just have to be in the mood to watch a fast moving Connery film. And this film works.

So where do you stand, which do you prefer?

[B007GLE]

Good thread Qwerty,

I enjoyed the book much better wehn I recently re-read it than I did my first time through it.

Despite that I have to go with the film. While the film may not be as good as some others, it is less a step down than the book is when compared to the other Fleming novels that came directly before and after it.

On a personal note in 1971, DAF was the first Bond film I saw. (I don't even think the others had played on television yet. I'll have to check the Legacy on that.) to put it simply, the movie blew me away. I had Bond toys and was a "fan" even before seeing the movie but that experience cemented it for me.

[Qwerty]

Thanks.

I agree on your one point too, reading Diamonds Are Forever more than once makes it all the better.

[00Twelve]

While I agree that Diamonds Are Forever may isn't in my top 5 list of Bond novels, I really, really enjoyed it, and much moreso than the film. The characterizations of Wint & Kidd were much better, IMO, but that is because I prefer the seriousness of the novel versions to the talkative humor of their cinematic counterparts.

Tiffany Case was characterized extremely well, easily my favorite character of the novel, and was infinitely better than Jill St. John, at least to me. Also, the feelings that Bond felt for her were so strong that she foreshadowed the greater love and tragedy that would come later.

The plot highlights and action sequences, especially the race/mud bath sequence, were very good, and I sorely missed that in the film. The only sequence that I found a bit odd was Spectreville, before Bond and Tiffany escaped. Leiter was used quite well, and the mob was a unique organization for Bond to be pitted against, if a bit random.

I actually read this novel fairly often (actually about 2 weeks ago), maybe more than most others in the series, and each time I find a new appreciation for it. The film seemed more of a self parody, and if it had to employ Blofeld as the villain, I would have preferred a much more serious confrontation between himself and Bond, considering the recent murder of Tracy (not to mention a brutal fight, which Gray would not have done well). The pre-titles were not enough for me, when compared to Bond's utter misery in the novels.

[Qwerty]

I recommend you this thread firstly: http://debrief.comma...showtopic=17133

[00Twelve]

Thanks, I guess I do get a bit longwinded, but to sum it up, I prefer the novel, especially after multiple readings.

[Qwerty]

Not long winded at all, I enjoyed reading that.

[iain]

The book should be considered in higher regard simply because Tiffany Case is the deepest and best written Fleming character outside of Bond himself.

[Qwerty]

Really? I'm interested, why do you say that?

[iain]

I am sorry if the statement was a little sweeping, but I do like the character.

She was neither the 'let me light your cigarette for you James' damsel in distress like Solitaire or the 'don't even think about it' cold case like Gala. She had been dealt a pretty poor hand yet still yearned for the fairy tale as the reader discovers during her first appearance. She is constantly torn between the path she wants to be on and the path that she travels as evidenced in the kiss and then rebuff after dinner at the 21 Club.

She actually shows more savvy than Bond when it comes to her employers. After all she (and M for that matter) end up being proved right and Bond underestimates his opposition with near deadly consequences.

Bond also, uncharacteristically, continues to underestimate the mob after making good his escape. Whereas Tiffany is yet again proved right when she feels that the game is far from over.

But in the end, I love her character because she ended up doing the right thing without any expectation that it would have anything but deadly consequences for her. Others in the novels assist Bond with the belief that he would end up saving the day and saving them. Tiffany had no such illusions. She helped Bond because it was the right thing to do, even though she felt their chances of success were slim to none. She faced and overcame her fears, which is the daily battle that we all face.

She also has possibly the best line in Fleming novel, 'it reads better than it lives'.

[Qwerty]

Thanks, I really enjoy her character, quite a bit so I wondered why you did as well.

I like her evolution in the book from the hardened smuggler to the damsel.

[hrabb04]

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't Tiffany move in with James after the end of this one? I thought I remembered something in From Russia With Love about her breaking up with him and moving out of his flat.

[iain]

She did indeed. She dumped him for a Us Marine officer stationed at the US Embassy in Grovesnor Square.

This also gave rise to one of the most awful lines in a Fleming novel when Bond describes the events as a blessing in disguise because 'mixed marriages rarely work'.

[Qwerty]

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't Tiffany move in with James after the end of this one? I thought I remembered something in From Russia With Love about her breaking up with him and moving out of his flat.

I believe,

/spoiler.gif

the possibility of them marrying came up

/gen_line.gif

[Bond111]

Diamonds are Forever the book is generally considered by me one of the lesser Fleming books. While there are some great elements to it, the pacing just seems all wrong to me. With the exception of Wint and Kidd, the main villains seem so bland and uninteresting. It's a shame they weren't given better characterization.

Diamonds are Forever the movie is, in my opinion, one of the worst of the series. I still like it, yes, but it seems generic, banal, and too lighthearted. With the slight exception of You Only Live Twice this movie is really one of the first to completely drop Fleming's story, and it shows.

Ultimately I find the book much more entertaining than the movie. The book has the right Bond ingredients to make a good story, in my opinion, unlike it's movie counterpart.

[Johnboy007]

The movie, I suppose. Not the least bit fond of either.

I thought the book Diamonds are Forever lacked a good strong main villain, and a truly "Oh no!" plan. Tiffany Case is indeed one of the better literary Bond girls.

[CharlieBind]

I think I prefer the movie slightly more than the book. It isn't the best Bond movie by a long way, but it is entertaining and gives you a lift when you feel down.

The book, though it is probably the weakest of the early books, isn't bad, it's very readable and I do have a soft spot for it (it also has one of the best opening's of any of the books). The big problem which has already been mentioned is the lack of a good villian. I suspect that even at the time, the "Mob" was already a bit of a cliche, used in hundreds of books and movies.

[Qwerty]

The movie, I suppose. Not the least bit fond of either.

I thought the book Diamonds are Forever lacked a good strong main villain, and a truly "Oh no!" plan. Tiffany Case is indeed one of the better literary Bond girls.

You bring up an interesting point though. As the villain and plan often go hand in hand, perhaps the plan would have seemed better if we had better villains than the Spangs. Better villains = Better Plot? Well, maybe.

On the whole I enjoyed the plot, it was just those lacklaustre villains.

[ComplimentsOfSharky]

While the villians were rather weak and the whole Spang in a cowboy suit was just plain weird, I don't think it detracted any from the story. Diamonds are Forever is, if nothing else, a fun book to read. I remember reading about Bond repelling down the side of the ship and diving through the window and thinking: wow, this is like something that would happen in one of the movies.

Turn off your mind, relax and enjoy imagining Bond shooting down a helicopter with a Bofors. Save the heavy thinking for trying to figure out the rules to bridge while reading Moonraker . The fantastic action makes up for any weakness in the plot or characters, IMHO. Don't over analyze it and DAF will surely not disappoint.

If nothing else, read DAF for a Tiffany Case who doesn't fall off of an oil rig because the recoil of a machine gun is too much for her.

Edited by ComplimentsOfSharky, 28 August 2004 - 01:53 PM.

[Qwerty]

Turn off your mind, relax and enjoy imagining Bond shooting down a helicopter with a Bofors. Save the heavy thinking for trying to figure out the rules to bridge while reading Moonraker . The fantastic action makes up for any weakness in the plot or characters, IMHO. Don't over analyze it and DAF will surely not disappoint.

If nothing else, read DAF for a Tiffany Case who doesn't fall off of an oil rig because the recoil of a machine gun is too much for her.

Both of those work rather well in Ian Fleming's books though. Whether it's the intense high stakes game at Blades in Moonraker or the quicker paced free action in Diamonds Are Forever, you just gotta love both.

Now I'm in the mood to read them.

[ComplimentsOfSharky]

I don't have either I lent them both to a friend at the beginning of summer and she hasn't given them back yet. I've been in the mood to reread Moonraker for a while, too.... oh well

[Qwerty]

I don't have either I lent them both to a friend at the beginning of summer and she hasn't given them back yet. I've been in the mood to reread Moonraker for a while, too.... oh well

Oooh. I'd get them both back if I could though, definitely don't want to lose them.

[ComplimentsOfSharky]

She'll get them back to me, I've lent her a bunch of other books before, I think she just keeps forgetting about them. I give out more books than the bloody library so I've learned to accept having my collections slightly broken for extended time periods. The midnight raid on her house is looking more and more like the best option though... drive up in my Aston Martin Volante (it's actually a Mitsubishi Diamante, ssh don't tell anyone)....take along Wicke PPK to club her if she wakes up....

[Qwerty]

She'll get them back to me, I've lent her a bunch of other books before, I think she just keeps forgetting about them. I give out more books than the bloody library so I've learned to accept having my collections slightly broken for extended time periods. The midnight raid on her house is looking more and more like the best option though... drive up in my Aston Martin Volante (it's actually a Mitsubishi Diamante, ssh don't tell anyone)....take along Wicke PPK to club her if she wakes up....

I guess 'overdues' just don't cut it with you then.

[ComplimentsOfSharky]

That made my day.

[Qwerty]

Well I hope you get it back then. Moonraker's a winner.