164 replies to this topic

[marktmurphy]

Exactly, Atticus. Last week there was no new Bond novel series for adults. This week: nothing has changed, except some little Bond fans have something to read. Why is this bad?

And is it impossible that this could be the publicity-garnering first step to a full-blown new series in the future? At worse, nothing has changed; at best, it could be a new future for Bond. So why so angry?

[Hawkeye]

Because maybe if we bitch and moan enough someone in a position of power re: bond novels etc will take note. It does happen, US tv show PARTY OF FIVE was saved from the axe by fan intervention, years of fan faith in Dr Who must have helped somewhat in bringing a new series into commision.
There may only be a hundred or so active members on the boards but there will be a lot more who peruse them and visit the site for bond info and opinions. i'm something like the 2322nd signed up member, and i read these boards for over a year before speaking out myself. So i can be bothered to put some effort into throwing out an opinion, some bile, a commendation etc, doesn't mean the other thousand plus CBn users don't have opinions, we just don't know what they are, and maybe the few of us that do sit here debating/bitching/annoying the hell out of each other, whatever you want to call it may provoke debate elsewhere, or even, as we see from new posters, bring new opinions/ideas onto the boards, thereby increasing what we know of the feelings of bond fandom.

Hawkeye

[marktmurphy]

Doctor Wh ofans did bring the series back, yes. Bu they helped to end it in the first place. Plus Doctor Who sells a tremendous amount of books, DVDs, magazines etc. Bond pretty much only sells cinema tickets and DVDs, not books.

[Genrewriter]

I will not argue that this is a great idea, or that I am sure that it will work. All I am saying is that could be done well. And that people might as well give it a shot because it is going to happen whether they like the idea or not.

Agreed. I was at first, when I read this for the first time, completely against it, and still hate the idea--alot, but I will look at this in the most positive way possible.

Granted, perhaps they can do some interesting ideas and plots with this younger Bond, there are a lot of things I'm wondering how they'll include, but I suppose it's fair to judge after the first one is out, to know for sure.

I agree. While I think the idea isn't the best, there is the possibility for something pretty darn good. I just hope they have the right guy for the job. If they're going for something in the mold of Harry Potter, it could work as Potter is more sophisticated than most stuff aimed at younger audiences.

[brendan007]

NEWSFLASH
The world does not revolve around a couple of hundred people on Bond websites. Just because you dont like something, doesnt mean it matters. No matter how much bitching and moaning you people do, it wont change anything, and why should it.
THESE BOOKS ARE FOR KIDS!!!!!!!!!!!! The IFP couldnt care less if you dont like them, BECAUSE THEY ARENT FOR YOU!!!!!!!!!!
For a James Bond Forum, theres far too much whinging and bitching around here over the stupidest things. A lot of posters here need to realise that their opinions dont really matter in the scheme of things.
It reminds me of a funny simpsons quote by Homer when he is describing the internet "Ahh the wonderous tool that allowed the world to discover what some nerd thinks about Star Trek".

[DLibrasnow]

You know....lets just see what kind of job Higson does on the project!

[Loomis]

(Getting someone to write more continuation novels featuring an adult 007 is) a great idea. If only they'd...oh no, wait: they did try it. It was rubbish and no-one bought them. They want to make some money. Yes, it's off the back of their relative's work, but everyone's gotta make a buck somehow.

"It was rubbish"? Okay, that's a matter of taste - personally, I'd take the worst of Benson over the best of Higson, though, since Benson at least wrote about the adult James Bond. I'm a simple fellow, and want nothing more from my Bond than the usual old mixture of martinis, girls, guns, exotic travel, and, of course, a grown-up 007. "No-one bought them"? Well, perhaps IFP/the publishing houses ought to have thought about promoting the books. How can people summon up enough interest to shell out cash for novels they don't know exist?

I take it you saw Die Another Day?

Yep, and I loved it. I take it you view DAD as a witless, juvenile apology for a Bond film. Well, many here will share that opinion, but even its harshest detractors must concede that it is, at the very least, a James Bond adventure, as opposed to a cold, cynical attempt to mate the Bond brand name with the HARRY POTTER phenomenon.

This is the populist approach, by a famous writer. This is what they asked for.

People were asking for a populist approach by a famous writer on the James Bond literary series, not on a Young James Bond literary series.

everyone just trots out the ''airports' quote and insists it be written as and aimed at the same market as Uncle Ian did it. Which just isn't realistic, as the past has shown us.

Why is it not realistic? With a decent author and editor, quality control and proper marketing, why couldn't Uncle Ian's old market be once again served? The Benson era didn't fail simply because Benson isn't the most brilliantly gifted writer on earth, but because of a number factors, not least the fact that IFP's collective heart just wasn't in it.

Everybody here seems to hate everything, and it might be best for your sanity if you let the idea of a book series for kiddies slide. As Benson pointed out: all the internet does is let people slag things off continuously. There's never anything positive or constructive. It's tiring. I like Jim an awful lot, but when was the last time you heard him mention something he actually liked? He just bashes the films and books endlessly and sometimes it would be nice to come to a fan forum and discuss how much you actually like something. No?

I find it astounding that adults can get so wound up over this.

NEWSFLASH
The world does not revolve around a couple of hundred people on Bond websites. Just because you dont like something, doesnt mean it matters. No matter how much bitching and moaning you people do, it wont change anything, and why should it.
THESE BOOKS ARE FOR KIDS!!!!!!!!!!!! The IFP couldnt care less if you dont like them, BECAUSE THEY ARENT FOR YOU!!!!!!!!!!
For a James Bond Forum, theres far too much whinging and bitching around here over the stupidest things. A lot of posters here need to realise that their opinions dont really matter in the scheme of things.
It reminds me of a funny simpsons quote by Homer when he is describing the internet "Ahh the wonderous tool that allowed the world to discover what some nerd thinks about Star Trek".

I'm not getting "wound up over this", but merely expressing my opinion on a message board devoted to the discussion of all things Bond (and doing so without attacking other members). Believe me, I do have a sense of proportion. I'm not planning to sabotage the publication of the "Young James Bond" books, or fashioning a voodoo doll with Charlie Higson's likeness in which to stick pins. No need to suggest that I'm teetering on the brink of insanity just because I dislike the idea of YJB and have aired my negative views on this board. It's a discussion appropriate to CBn, but I assure you that I don't rant and scream about Higson offline. And bringing up nerds and STAR TREK is fine, so long as those doing so bear in mind the fact that they also post their film/TV opinions on internet discussion boards and may therefore be accused of being people in glass houses throwing stones.

I strongly disagree, Mark, that "everybody here seems to hate everything" - just read the average post by zencat, for instance. And you must also have missed my own recent thread extolling the virtues of DR. NO. Get me started on, say, "Colonel Sun" or THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN (or on DAD, for that matter), and you'll soon see my enthusiasm pouring forth. We all have our likes and dislikes, and if we object to reading those of others, perhaps we ought to think about staying away from CBn.

Anyway, Mark, I don't recall all that many "positive or constructive" posts from your good self. You seem to do more than your share of carping.

It's a book series for kiddies. What does it actually matter? Who does it harm?

Fair point. But you might as well apply that logic to, well, anything. "THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH is a popcorn movie for teens. What does it actually matter? Who does it harm?" Let's shut down CBn if we're no longer interested in negative views on things.

I always cringe when fans believe the object of their affection belongs to them

Same here. I've never been so arrogant as to assume that Bond belongs to me. But am I speaking out of turn, or posting above my station, by airing my views? If I am, where does that leave everyone else here? Where does it leave you, Mark?

Yup. I reckon ("Young James Bond" is) a very bad idea.

Right. So why play devil's advocate? And then growl at people who don't agree with what weren't in the first place exactly deeply-held beliefs of yours?

And why should anyone care what Bond fans say? There are, perhaps about one hundred active members here. With a similar amount on the other two boards. That's not exactly a representative cross-section, just a bunch of bored yank teenagers. Who cares?

Quite. Who cares? (And I'm amused by the way you implicitly set yourself apart from "bored Yank teenagers".) Let's close this site, then.

And is it impossible that this could be the publicity-garnering first step to a full-blown new series in the future?

It's not impossible, but it doesn't strike me as particularly likely. After all, if "Young James Bond" does well, I'd expect it to be followed by more of the same, not another Benson-type author writing Benson-type books. Besides, the folks at IFP seem already to have reached the (in my book erroneous) conclusion that new, non-Fleming Bond novels aimed at grown-ups amount to commercial suicide.

[DLibrasnow]

Why be so surprised. EON has shown for years that they don't care what the fans think, or want!

[marktmurphy]

I'm not getting "wound up over this", but merely expressing my opinion on a message board devoted to the discussion of all things Bond (and doing so without attacking other members).

You've got a funny way of doing that, mate. Mentioning my name at the beginning of every paragraph and pointing out where I have gone wrong almost seems quite the opposite to be honest.

I can't be bothered to point out where you have misunderstood my points on purpose or just repeated my points as it is a book series for kiddies. I just don't care enough.

[Loomis]

You've got a funny way of doing that, mate. Mentioning my name at the beginning of every paragraph and pointing out where I have gone wrong almost seems quite the opposite to be honest.

I only mentioned your name about three times, in a relatively long post. Not sure where I've attacked you, but I guess you're just being characteristically quick in taking offence.

I can't be bothered to point out where you have misunderstood my points on purpose or just repeated my points as it is a book series for kiddies. I just don't care enough.

Yeah? So what are you doing posting a reply, then?

[DLibrasnow]

Always have to take Loomis with a pinch of salt

[marktmurphy]

Okay then; just a couple of points:

Why is it not realistic? With a decent author and editor, quality control and proper marketing, why couldn't Uncle Ian's old market be once again served? The Benson era didn't fail simply because Benson isn't the most brilliantly gifted writer on earth, but because of a number factors, not least the fact that IFP's collective heart just wasn't in it.

The Bond series is well known as a dead duck which has spouted rubbish for the last twenty years and is desperately unsuccessful. Couple this with the fact the films aren't exactly big on plots or characterisation which are the two things thriller novels can really do with, and you have a book series which is pretty much unsalvagable. How do you want them to sell this 'new series'? : "Please have a look; we've made them good this time" Great. That'll inspire confidence.
Sometimes if the brand is dead, no amount of publicity will attract a new audience. So whether you make them well or not doesn't really matter.
Once you know disneyland is built on a sewage works, no amount of really good rides will make you want to go back.

I take it you view DAD as a witless, juvenile apology for a Bond film. Well, many here will share that opinion, but even its harshest detractors must concede that it is, at the very least, a James Bond adventure, as opposed to a cold, cynical attempt to mate the Bond brand name with the HARRY POTTER phenomenon.

Blimey. You're contrasting DAD with a 'cold, cynical' approach?

People were asking for a populist approach by a famous writer on the James Bond literary series, not on a Young James Bond literary series.

Yes. I. Know. I didn't say they did. My point (again) is that you can't market a dead series. To push it publicity-wise, it has to be re-invented. You can't have your cake and eat it. That was my point. I didn't mean it literally. Please don't make me explain it again.

Fair point. But you might as well apply that logic to, well, anything. "THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH is a popcorn movie for teens. What does it actually matter? Who does it harm?" Let's shut down CBn if we're no longer interested in negative views on things.

Negative views on things we have seen is fine. On things we haven't seen is a debatable point ("I'd take the worst of Benson over the best of Higson"). Do you like to debate?

Right. So why play devil's advocate? And then growl at people who don't agree with what weren't in the first place exactly deeply-held beliefs of yours?

I'll take that as a no.

Let's close this site, then.

Fine by me, if this is all we have to talk about.

Besides, the folks at IFP seem already to have reached the (in my book erroneous) conclusion that new, non-Fleming Bond novels aimed at grown-ups amount to commercial suicide.

Erroneous? The facts are there in black and white. Bond needs an overhaul. The reset button has to be pushed. Is that the IFP's fault? Yes. Can we go back in time? No. At least they have shown an interest in keeping it going and giving it a future. Just hiring another author to write them for the fans and trying to tell everyone that they are good again ain't a future, because no-one would believe them.
I wouldn't.

[DLibrasnow]

Really I think the only people who read the Bond books are Bond fans....it's very hard to find booksellers that even stocked Raymond Bensons novels.

[Loomis]

you can't market a dead series. To push it publicity-wise, it has to be re-invented.

Fine, but why reinvent the Bond literary series as the Young Bond literary series? (Okay, okay, it's for kids, it's harming no one, etc.) Why not get a writer as well-known as Higson to take over the continuation novels from Benson, giving the new venture a decent marketing push? Might be a viable move in 2008, Fleming's centenary year.

[DLibrasnow]

Maybe they will hire another author to continue the adult Bond....

My question is - will they have the young Bond set in the present day or in the past!?

[Genrewriter]

The series will be set in the 1930's. I'll be interested to see how it pans out.

[marktmurphy]

Higson isn't that well known as a writer and certainly wouldn't convince me to return to Bond.
I want to see a new format or big thriller names. The Young idea isn't one I would have gone for, but it is a step in the right direction for me, believe it or not. It shows they are thinking.

[Loomis]

The Young idea isn't one I would have gone for, but it is a step in the right direction for me, believe it or not. It shows they are thinking.

Fair enough. I guess I'm just hopelessly wedded to a mythical golden past of heterosexuals in airports and Bond novels lining the shelves of all bookshops everywhere. Who knows? Maybe some good will come out of Young James Bond. Perhaps Higson's books will even be worthwhile. I'll try and keep an open mind, but it's hard for a reactionary old codger like me.

[Mister Asterix]

And we only have about 12 months to wait before we find out. Perhaps Higson will write a short story for Highlights or Ranger Rick.

[marktmurphy]

Ah. That'll be an American joke then. I think he means The Beano or Dandy.

[Mister Asterix]

Ah. That'll be an American joke then. I think he means The Beano or Dandy.

Thanks for the translation for those on your side of the pond.

[Coop]

The scent of Sunny Delight is nauseating at three in the afternoon. Then the soul erosion produced by Playstation- a compost of lurid graphics, fear and nervous tension- becomes unbearable and the senses awake and revolt from it.

A bit like me when I heard about these books.

Listen....

Hear that noise?

It's the sound of Ian Fleming turning in his grave.

James Bond as a kid? Written by Charlie faffing Higson?

What are those morons thinking of?

If only Ian had been a bachelor........

Edited by Coop, 09 April 2004 - 06:04 PM.

[zencat]

I did a main page article on fan reaction this HERE.

[DLibrasnow]

Its the editor in me Zencat....but its "taking" and not "talking" in your lead!

[Johnboy007]

THE WHOLE PREMISE OF MY FAN FICTION IS RUINED!!!

Poo.

[Qwerty]

THE WHOLE PREMISE OF MY FAN FICTION IS RUINED!!!

Poo.

Aw, look at that, another 'happy' fan about the young Bond news.

Johnboy, I'm sure you could still do the fanfic, doesn't have to revolve around what the IFP is doing, yes?

[DLibrasnow]

Well I was worried when I first heard the news because my fanfic revolves around Bonds time in the Royal Navy!

[Qwerty]

You're working on a fanfic, DLibrasnow, how far along are you into it?

[DLibrasnow]

Some way in....I've been working on it for over a year now...it's going really well and I hope to publish it here on CBN when I am done with it.

[Qwerty]

Interesting, as I had either forgotten or did not know, as for working on it for a year, I hope it turns out well!