59 replies to this topic

[JackChase007]

And you, DLibra, spoil this board for me by so harshly bashing Arnold so much.

[DLibrasnow]

Bashing? I am stating a fact, even those people who like Arnolds work admit that he overuses the James Bond theme. I am merely saying that I think he overuses it to the extent that it has lost its significance -- which is a shame!

Now with STARGATE I think he did a great job!

[Qwerty]

The only thing is DLibrasnow, you already have brought up the topic of your thoughts on David Arnold's work in another thread today, why bring it up in this one as well? I don't understand.

[DLibrasnow]

Does that make my point any less valid?

[Qwerty]

No, certainly not less vaild at all. You're entitled to your point, what I guess I just don't understand, is that you already stated that you don't like David Arnold in a thread today, why bring it up also in this Roger Moore film discussion thread and another Roger Moore discussion thread you posted in today?

[DanMan]

I don't think he overuses the James Bond theme at all.

TND- A lot of the score is an instrumental version of Surrender.
TWINE- Most of the action scenes use Garbage's TWINE melody.
DAD- Arnolds action theme can be heard in Hovercraft Chase, Cuban Clinic Fight, and Whiteout. And Graves' theme is used quite often in the movie.

[JackChase007]

Very well-pointed out, DanMan. Arnold actually creates a lot of really good themes. I especially love his "Surrender" theme from Tomorrow Never Dies.

[DLibrasnow]

No, certainly not less vaild at all. You're entitled to your point, what I guess I just don't understand, is that you already stated that you don't like David Arnold in a thread today, why bring it up also in this Roger Moore film discussion thread and another Roger Moore discussion thread you posted in today?

I love Arnolds work on "Stargate" so I don't not like David Arnold. I'm just not a fan of the 007 stuff he has done thats all.

[Qwerty]

DLibrasnow, you already said that and I understand it. What I asked is why you bring it up in two Roger Moore threads when it was being discussed in another thread?

[JackChase007]

Yes, it felt quite unnecessary and off-topic. It's about as relevant if I were to say that Never Say Never Again is the worst film made since Raise The Titanic.

[DLibrasnow]

I already answered you Qwerty. Okay, let's drop the whole David Arnold thing

Fancy a beer?!

[Qwerty]

Okay, okay, deal. Just don't be so hard on the guy in every single music thread. He's not that bad!

He's done some pretty good stuff with the music in the Bond films and I always await his next job on the next film.

No beer for Qwerty....underage.

[Bond Bug]

I love Arnolds work on "Stargate" so I don't not like David Arnold. I'm just not a fan of the 007 stuff he has done thats all.

If I could remember any of it, I might be a fan, but who is to say if memorable movie music is essential?

[DLibrasnow]

I think memorable movie music is essential....IMO the haunting music for Moonraker definately elevated that movie.

[Qwerty]

Exactly. It's the music of the film, that really gives the film the edge. Such cues in Moonraker such as the haunting Flight Into Space or the light Bond Lured to Pyramids tracks add a little extra to the film and only help it. They're tracks that sound fantastic on the soundtracks, but even better when played with the film.

[DLibrasnow]

I am in total agreement with you on this Qwerty!

[SPECTRE ASSASSIN]

I hated Bill Conti's score. The downpoint of For Your Eyes Only, which is one of the best Bond films. The score sounded like a late 70's pørn movie. Conti's score for Rocky was way better.

Edited by SPECTRE_ASSASSIN, 29 March 2004 - 03:22 AM.

[Qwerty]

Oh really? What parts of it did you not enjoy? The disco influenced themes or the increasing Barry accustomed tracks in the second half of the film?

[SPECTRE ASSASSIN]

What your talking back to me, Qwerty? Just kidding.

Both of your choices are lame! The disco theme was worse, though. Better suited in a Rick James video.

[Qwerty]

Okay, so you thought the entire score was bad? Granted, the disco isn't the normal event for a Bond film, but it added some punch to the two main chase sequences it was in.

[SPECTRE ASSASSIN]

Disco themes aren't in Bond films Qwerty. It could have worked better if Bond was dancing or doing the hussle with the assassins in that scene.

At least it's not embarissing as the Beach Boys' song in A View to a Kill .

I respect your opinions about the score, Qwerty.

[Bond Bug]

For somebody who has a very limited musical memory, I can think back to that car chase with the Citreon 2CV and I can hear the music. How it conveyed so many things all at once: the fun, the pace, the comedy, the drama.

Then there is the orchestral use of the main theme for Bond and Melina on that horse and cart, a more contemplative and romantic pace with use of horns. It isn't music I would want to listen to on its own like John Barry, but it is in perfect for the movie.

Conti really captured the atmosphere and brought in that very Greek sound which was ideal and a theme tune that was so good it could be used for almost any situation.

[Dunph]

And George Martin didn't? Go and listen to the Live And Let Die score, and tell me that every second track doesn't have a thematic reference in it. Arnold used the theme in Tomorrow Never Dies to the right extent. I felt it more than made up for Serra's harsh exclusion of a raw form of the theme in his score.

Bill Conti's score for For Your Eyes Only I feel is one of the best in the series (as are the scores of most of the one-timers) he adds an energy to the chases and an easy listening lilt to the love themes. Those who said on the DVD that he was anything like Barry need their ears testing in my opinion; quite simply Conti was the hottest composer of the time and he brought a superb new disco influenced sound to the table.

P.S. I'm moving this thread

[Brian Flagg]

I couldn't find a thread praising Bill Conti's score, and since I've been listening to this cd a lot lately, I just thought I'd put my thoughts here.

Title Song: Absolutely gorgeous and evocative theme, one of the series' best. Conti is a supreme melodist. I also dig the way Sheena Easton stretches out the "only" about 2:10 into the song.

The "Disco" Elements: I think Disco is the wrong word, it sounds more like very early 1980s synth dance music. For those of us old enough to remember, Disco by 1981 was anathema to the world at large. Plus, Disco has a preponderance of strings in the arrangement. Conti's "Disco" is synth driven. Also notice that this stuff is only used during the lighthearted chases. All work really well in conveying the Moore-era lightness and humor.

The Barry-esque Elements: Conti gets serious when the film gets down to business. Even when employing the synths. The climb, the "Ski...Shoot...Jump" sequence, the underwater material. Conti also employs some pseudo-ethnic cues in "Melina's Revenge" and Gonzales Takes A Drive [sic]" and while not very John Barry, they are hummable and catchy melodies. Right out of Barry in the result, if not the delivery. Although John would resort to drum machines in TLD. He may have learned from Maestro Conti.

Other Great Moments: The best moment for me is "The P.M. Gets the Bird" which is so somber, touching and then WHAP! the great segue into the reprise of the title song! Magnificent! Also, the great Gunbarrel sequence that gets things cooking musically; and I cannot forget that great dissonant piano in the aforementioned "Ski...Shoot...Jump."

In sum, an alternately lovely, funky, melodic, dramatic score. Not to mention just plain fun!

Edited by Brian Flagg, 16 June 2004 - 05:26 PM.

[Kingdom Come]

DL, you have to realise, as I have been 'made' to in the past, that everyone on this site or anyone on the planet called Earth MUST like and NEVER critisise David Arnold!!!

I agree Arnold relies way too heavily on the James Bond Theme and I wouldn't mind if he could come up with an exciting version of it like Serra did, but his versions always sound tacky, plastic and like some old record of Bond themes from the 70s. I loved Conti's score to For Your Eyes Only - suited the film perfectly with lots and lots of local colouring, which was a nice change.

[Qwerty]

The "Disco" Elements: I think Disco is the wrong word, it sounds more like very early 1980s synth dance music. For those of us old enough to remember, Disco by 1981 was anathema to the world at large. Plus, Disco has a preponderance of strings in the arrangement. Conti's "Disco" is synth driven. Also notice that this stuff is only used during the lighthearted chases. All work really well in conveying the Moore-era lightness and humor.

Also, the great Gunbarrel sequence that gets things cooking musically; and I cannot forget that great dissonant piano in the aforementioned "Ski...Shoot...Jump."

In sum, an alternately lovely, funky, melodic, dramatic score. Not to mention just plain fun!

I think the late 80's ending disco styles fit this film rather well, and they made for some really exciting chase music. He opens that film up with a literal blast of a gunbarrel, which works quite well.

I always thought the piano though, while original, seemed a bit too much for that scene.

[marktmurphy]

In fairness to Arnold the primary reason he uses the Bond theme too much is because, with the exception of TWINE, he hasn't been able to compose his own theme tune. TWINE made use of the theme because it was written by Arnold, while TND was a tribute to the Barry era. Arnold had little else to rely on in DAD. Also the use of music comes from the director who tells the composer what he wants.

In saying that, I think he should come up with a secondary theme, like the 007 theme, which Barry used to do so well.

Eh? 'Surrender' appears repeatedly during TND, his theme tune pops up just as much in TWINE, and DAD is full of his unused 'I Will Return'. So wot you on about?

And as for Bill, there simply isn't a more exciting Bond score. The car and ski chases really get those juices pumping (especially when the car chase kicks into gear after the Citroen is righted. Let's go James!). Plus, the best, most bombastic gunbarrel of them all. Compare and contrast to DAD's tinny effort.

[Qwerty]

Compare and contrast to DAD's tinny effort.

Die Another Day was good admittingly, rather an attention grabber. But For Your Eyes Only's does indeed blast onto the screen, so to speak.

[marktmurphy]

'admittingly'?

What I am surprised about, gunbarrel-wise, is the fact that the melody goes absolutely full-bore blare out trumpets on the second bar (Is that the right term?) and that nobody has used this trick since. It's fantastic!

Of course Arnold is rather hampered by the fact that the current gunbarrel is a lot shorter than the pre-Pierce ones and he has to curtail the Bond theme quite nastily. Surely a good enough reason to make a new version?

[Qwerty]

'admittingly'?

I phrased it like that because I know many people who were not too thrilled with the gunbarrel, musically and appearance wise for Die Another Day. I thought it worked well though.