19 replies to this topic

[Genrewriter]

I've been thinking of this thread for awhile and figured it was about time it went up. While some feel Goldfinger is the best Bond film ever, I place Thunderball above it. While GF set the template for future Bond films, Thunderball set the pacing and tone that a great majority of the following movies would follow. Let's examine some of the elements that make Thunderball so great.

1. Sean Connery: He gives his definitive performance as Bond, layering it as well as anyone since. He's tough and resilient in the underwater battle and chateau fight and shows the human side of Bond quite nicely in the beach scene with Domino. The close up of his hand trembling slightly as he gives Domino her brother's watch and ID tags is all you need to know in the scene, acted to perfection. There is also the great transition from nice guy to killer when Vargas approaches.

2. Adolfo Celi: Jim has brought it up before, but Celi's performance as Largo is truly one of the best villains in the series. Rather than a megalomaniacal lunatic hell bent and insane, Largo is cool and methodical with a strong streak of cruelty that makes him viciously chilling.

Another aspect to him that i'm not sure has been touched on is his similarity to 007. Both men are professionals who are willing to do anything to get their respective jobs done. It can be said that Largo is the first instance of a villain who is the dark side of Bond.

3. The Editing and Music: Peter Hunt and John Barry do their usual brilliant jobs but the bit I've always been thrilled by is the fight on the Disco Volante. It's one of the best five minutes of film I've seen and really warrants closer inspection.

The music starts us off right, transitioning from the lyrical underwater theme to the pounding rendition of the 007 Theme. From there, we get Domino being set free in two short scenes that play out in short movements, just long enough to relay the needed information. The ensuing fight is great as Bond and Largo fight for control of the steering wheel. I'm especially fond of the shot where Bond is steering around the rocks. Connery sells the moment brilliantly.

As for other elements, the film was marketed brilliantly, building on the success of Goldfinger by touting the next film as even bigger. Thunderball is not without a few flaws, the missile theft scene could have been dealt with a little faster while still conveying the idea of the scene but really it's a minor flaw.

There are so many great elements in the film it's almost impossible to cover them all. But hey, life is full of small challenges, eh?

[Qwerty]

You know what Genrewriter, I think you may be right about Thunderball being better, or at least as good as Goldfinger. It's that way in my book anyway. The villains and Bond girls are some of the very best the entire series has to offer, Barry's score is screaming with adventure. Sean Connery is superb and the plot is excellent!

Emilio Largo is one of my all time favorite Bond villains. He's just a smooth operator. I think one of his best traits is how calmly he discusses things with Bond. Little touches like pointing the gun at his face and that sort. just excellent. Fiona Vople is just fantastic. One of the very best ever, with the evil and lines to prove it. Her dancing with Bond is excellent.

Domino as a damsel in distress, is yet another favorite of mine from the series. So innocent and perfectly portrayed as 'the bird with a wing down.' Her killing of Largo is great.

Barry's score and the locations are over the top in the best kind of fashion. What can I say: They're great.

I could go on about this film, but I'll leave it at that. I like it alot.

Great thread Genrewriter!

[Turn]

Thanks, Genrewriter, for saying what I've always thought also -- that TB is the ultimate Bond film. GF is okay and I tip my hat to it being the film that got so many to like Bond, but something about it never gripped me the way TB did.

People look at GF's villains as the ultimate, and I don't disagree. But instead of trying to top or clone them, TB goes with a different approach. You and Qwerty already gave fine descriptions of why Largo works. But nobody talks about what a different villain Fiona was and how she broke ground for the time.

While Rosa Klebb was the first female Bond villain, she really didn't do much until the end as far as being a direct threat to Bond. Fiona was a liberated woman who used her body as well as her mind to do her job. Instead of falling for Bond the way Pussy did, she in turn used Bond and then captured him. The confrontation scene in the hotel is one of the best in the series. And they've been cloning her ever since.

And I can't understand why people find the underwater scenes boring. Maybe the early scene when they capture the Vulcan, but the scene in the underwater cave was suspenseful. And the final battle pulled out so many tricks and had such nice cinematography I don't see how anybody couldn't be involved.

[Genrewriter]

Thanks, Qwerty. If I remember correctly, this is the first Connery "Bond film I ever saw. At any rate, it's always been a personal favorite of mine.

[Genrewriter]

And I can't understand why people find the underwater scenes boring. Maybe the early scene when they capture the Vulcan, but the scene in the underwater cave was suspenseful. And the final battle pulled out so many tricks and had such nice cinematography I don't see how anybody couldn't be involved.

I agree. Actually, the missile theft scene could have been done in much the same style as a similar scene in Tomorrow Never Dies and worked just fine.

[doublenoughtspy]

Thunderball is certainly the high water mark of the Bond series from a financial and cultural influence standpoint.

I love the film and its marketing, but there are unfortunately some flaws which prevent it from being a better film than Goldfinger.

1) Underwater scenes go on waaay too long.

2) Lots of continuity mistakes.

3) Rick Van Nutter's clueless Felix Leiter: "Gosh James, What do we do now?"

There are some great things about the film (Auger, Celi, music) but it is a little disjointed in places compared to the very tight Goldfinger.

[Turn]

I actually like Van Nutter's Felix. He seems a little more in line with the book version than any other portrayal of the character. And he's a huge improvement over GF's Cec Linder, who I like to refer to as Uncle Felix as he doesn't look anything like I'd picture the character. In fact, I think he looks a lot like Rodney Dangerfield.

It's true TB is more disjointed and less tight than GF, but it is much more epic in scope. But in terms of flow, I don't find the underwater scenes any less involving than when Bond is captured in GF's Kentucky stables. That seems to go on forever to me.

[Scottlee]

TB is my favourite Connery Bond film. It's so beautiful to look at it, and has more of an epic feel to it then any of the other early efforts in the serious (Before O.H.M.S.S). Unlike some people, I'm fascinated by the underwater scenes, even the Vulcan one. I can't find much fault with this film at all. Even the smaller parts are legendary. For instance, when M ribs Bond for being late but then later backs him up in front of a suit. Q has a good scene too, although I heard they cut a bit of it out due to film length.

The dancing scene with Volpe is one of the most effective scene in any Bond film. The music is perfect, and it really is one of those moments where you just watch, stare, and think "How the hell will he get out of this one?". All Volpe's scenes are well written, in fact.

Domino is a technically weak character, but she is my fave Bond girl of the series just for the fact she's a stunner and incredibly cute. Sorry. Those aren't good reasons, but I'm reserving the right to live by them. Van Nutter is a good Felix, even if Pinder is somewhat characterless.

One scene that is a bit far-fetched is where Bond lights the Vodka in the car. The villains were a little bit slow to react if you ask me, but there you go.

And the ending! Fantastic! I don't care if it begs the question as how they would get down again.

[ChandlerBing]

Thunderball is one of my most favorite Bonds. I like it wayyyy better than Goldfinger. Terence Young is my favorite Bond director. He absolutely got it about Bond. Of course, he was lucky enough to pass on what he knew to Peter Hunt, which whittled down to John Glen...

Screw continuity! This is a fun movie. Probably have seen this movie 8 million times (slight exaggeration!). Hell, I could probably perform the movie for someone, but it's still great fun.


In regards to the thing between Bond and Largo, the theme Thunderball could be about both men as mentioned on one of the commentaries on the DVD. Listen to the lyrics and you'll see what I mean.

Ahhhh, if only James Bond had returned next in On Her Majesty's Secret Service. At least, he didn't do OHMSS after Goldfinger. That would have been awkward!

[Qwerty]

Q has a good scene too, although I heard they cut a bit of it out due to film length.

Yes, he spoke of some longer scenes I believe that included some dialogue between himself and Rik van Nutter.

[1q2w3e4r]

Always thought Thunderball was Connery's and the series best, followed closely by FRWL.

Nothing really more to say on it. Everyone's covered the movie!

They don't make em like they used to

[worship_decks_rule]

Thunderball is in se the typical next Bond film, it has some links to Goldfinger and how Bond lives with those events, but still it brings very few new things to the films. Goldfinger still has that mysthical thing a round the movie. Thunderball is more spectacular but not necessary more interesting then Goldfinger.

[Brix Bond]

It isn't my favourite, not by a long shot, but it does have one of the best lines ever, second only to "This never happened..."

"Do you mind if my friend sits this one out? She's just dead!"

[Kingdom Come]

You are all mad!! It is Connery's worst. A bore of gigantic proportions; even Young disowned it after editing. For a start, the screenplay is coma inducing; the dubbing is as bad as ever; everyone sounds like they were dubbed in a cardboard box; the photography very poor; quality of picture the worst in the series. Barry's score isn't even servicable; the underwater scenes are very confusing and dramatically uninvolving; the title song was written/recorded in 3 days and it sounds it and its way too long.

[Turn]

You are all mad!!

Yes, isn't everyone?

Are you the same Kingdome Come who just gave YOLT a 10 out of 10 in the Rate YOLT thread? Except for the music and photography, the only thing YOLT is memorable for these days is it being parodied in Austin Powers movies.

So what if YOLT made Bond into an epic. It also was the final straw that took Bond from an action/adventure series into the deep end of gadgetry. It was such tendancies along with the media attention that turned Connery off the series.

YOLT is fine if you like a sleepwalking Bond going from one vehicle to another with gadget after gadget. TB had its share of gadgets, but they don't overwhelm the character and the film.

And the screenplay is full of things that make little or no sense -- Bond just happens to pull a mini safecracker from his pocket in Osato's office. Bond just happens to have a ninja outfit complete with suction cups perfect for scaling the inside of artificial volcanoes. Helicopters pick up cars with giant magnets and dump them in to the bay, complete with magic cameras that project pictures from nowhere. The tunnel into the volcano is filled with poison gas, but is conveniently gone by the time the remaining ninjas and Bond need an escape route. Shall I go on?

It even borrows heavily from earlier films with Ms. Brandt being a cheap Fiona Volpe repeat and even the ticking clock being a repeat of GF.

[Kingdom Come]

As far as I know, Connery did not grow tired of the series during YOLT it was whilest he was filming Thunderball. As for Austin Powers, he sends up the entire series. Bond went gadget mad because the audience did. Also the days of questioning logic in a Bond film ended when I was at school!

[Scottlee]

You are all mad!!

, complete with magic cameras that project pictures from nowhere.

LOL. That mystery camera always cracks me up. The only plausible explanation is that Tiger has another chopper nearby, but would he really bother funding the existance of another one entirely for the purpose of showing Bond what he's done to the car?

[ChandlerBing]

Thunderball is right up near the top of the list for Bond. YOLT is good if you don't think about it too much. Roald Dahl obviously isn't too familiar with the word logical, but it's still a fun movie, even if it wastes a good book.

[DLibrasnow]

I think it has some slow moments and the underwater sequence really gets confusing and convoluted. However I probably prefer it to anything that Pierce Brosnan has put out because it does have Sean Connery!

On a personal level - and I know this is a very minority opinion - I much prefer the 1983 remake Never Say Never Again

[Turn]

As far as I know, Connery did not grow tired of the series during YOLT it was whilest he was filming Thunderball. As for Austin Powers, he sends up the entire series. Bond went gadget mad because the audience did. Also the days of questioning logic in a Bond film ended when I was at school!

You're right that Connery did tire of the series during TB, but YOLT was the straw that broke the camel's back. The Japanese press hounded him from the moment he arrived in Japan, even following him into the restroom. Chunks of this are on the Inside YOLT documentary on the DVD.

Austin Powers does indeed send up the entire series, but with Dr. Evil resembling the Donald Pleasance Blofeld and the talk about hidden lairs and all that have a lot of people thinking YOLT is based on Austin Powers.

Sure you don't always need to question the logic in a Bond film. I guess some people just are able to digest the outrageousness easier than others. I prefer the more realistic tones than you. But I didn't go into a YOLT appreciation thread and call the people praising it "mad."