28 replies to this topic

[zencat]

The way I've heard it was GoldenEye (the EXCELLENT Michael France first draft) was indeed written with Dalton in mind. Cubby was behind Dalton 100%. But MGM was NOT going to make another Bond film with Dalton. Period. (The poor performance of LTK in the U.S. was a BIG factor.) It was a standoff, and Dalton solved the problem by graciously bowing out.

Too bad. I would have liked to have seen a third Dalton film.

[zencat]

I think you may be right there, White Persian. I never really considered the "No Subsitutes" tag.

[Mr Trump]

Does anybody know if it was true that they tried to make a remake of Thunderball in the early 90's with Dalton because I have read it somewhere but weather it was true or not I don't know.

[zencat]

I think that was just another wacky Kevin McClory rumor/wet dream -- to make his Thunderball remake WARHEAD with Dalton. During the Dalton years he clamined he was going to do it w/ Pierce.

[Mr Trump]

I would have also like to have seen a third Dalton film but I would rather have seen it in the 6 year gap between LTK and Goldeneye because I think Brosnan is probably the best Bond and the right man for Goldeneye.

[zencat]

I read a treatment once for what would have been the Dalton film made during the "gap." It didn't have a title, but it involved Bond in Japan battling a villian who has a fetish for high tech robots. Interesting that it also featured the return of the DB5.

[The Admiral]

It's a shame that Dalton left, and I also agree that he should have made a film in the "gap" as everyone is calling it. But I agree with Mr Trump, that Dalton shouldn't have done Goldeneye, as it was great with Brosnan in it.

[zencat]

Wow! I'd never heard it got past the treatment stage, nor that it was called The Property of a Lady. Now I have a mission. Find that script! The treat was by Michael G. Wilson & Alfonse Ruggiero.

[Blue Eyes]

zencat (06 Jun, 2001 07:02 p.m.):
I read a treatment once for what would have been the Dalton film made during the "gap." It didn't have a title, but it involved Bond in Japan battling a villian who has a fetish for high tech robots. Interesting that it also featured the return of the DB5.

I know a bit about this zencat. But I haven't been able to lay my hands on a treatment - a very upsetting thing. It's something I just gotta read!

It did have a title. It was called "The Property Of A Lady" from Fleming's Octopussy. I was penned by Michael G Wilson and a few others. They got up to the third draft from memory.

[White Persian]

Zencat's view on Dalton's departure pretty much conforms to my suspicions.
Actually I think Dalton would've been terrific in GoldenEye (no respect to Brosnan who was terrific in his own right). The "eight years earlier" flashback would have worked better with Dalton. As it is (and I know this isn't logical) having a Brosnan flashback to the Dalton era somehow doesn't quite feel right. It's the same when Roger Moore leaves flowers on Tracy's grave.
I'd love to see the lost Dalton treatment too. I bet the title would've changed though.

[zencat]

I always thought that flashback in GoldenEye was, in a weird way, a means of ERASING the Dalton years. I mean, think about it, if GoldenEye is set in 1995 (and we can assume it is as all Bond films take place "in the present") then the pre-titles flashback is set in 1986, a year BEFORE Daylights, the year Brosnan was supposed to take over the role of Bond. I don't think they did this intentionally, but it is interesting to look at it this way.

[White Persian]

Actually I think it may well have been deliberate ( otherwise why "eight" years?). There are lots of ways in which Brosnan being the original choice are played on in GoldenEye, from the trailer- "No Substitutes" -surely a direct (and rather ungracious reference) to Dalton's tenure- to the lyrics to the title song which seem at times to directly refer to Brosnan wanting the part and "being denied".

[Loomis]

Zencat's theory chimes with something I read once, which is that both Dalton and John Glen were basically given the boot on MGM's orders as a result of LTK's stiffing at the US box office.

[Solex Agitator]

Hey guys! Play nice! The '"no substitutes" was a reference to all of the other action films/series that attempted to fill the void during '"the gap." I doubt very seriously that Eon or MGM would ever take a shot that cheap at their own history. It just does not make sense. Especially since Brocolli was a HUGE fan and supporter of Dalton, a fine 007.

[ShockTroop22]

According to the book "The Making Of GoldenEye", McClory approached Brosnan while Tim was still on the throne, and offered him the chance to star in an alternate Bond series, that was going to run paralell to the MGM/Eon one.

This was from Pierce's own words, yet, he turned it down in order to hold out, and wait for the official role to come along.

Anybody else hear about this?

[Dalton]

Reading a copy of '007 Extra' (Oct '94) that was produced by the JBIFC, there is an article about Tim leaving. Apparently he made the decision to leave, after his 3 picture deal ended in 1990 when pre-production ceased on his 3rd film. He goes on to say that even though the Broccoli's wanted him to return to the role, he made the decision because to the 6yr gap.

[Simon]

I believe I have mentioned this in another thread that Dalton was given his marching orders but PR demanded, and rightly so, that he was given the opportunity to publicly retire as opposed to being told he had been replaced. I had spent time in a previous job with Garth Pearce, the author of the Making of books for GE and TND, and it was he who reliably informed me of these events.

Looking back at this period, there was no way Dalton was going to be revisited. His last film apparently didn't do so well and after such a long break, they had to start afresh in every capacity to stand a chance at box office glory.

[rafterman]

well after LTK, Glen, Maibaum and most of the team were given the pink slip and new, less talented talent was brought in...

[Jim]

Originally posted by rafterman
well after LTK, Glen, Maibaum and most of the team were given the pink slip and new, less talented talent was brought in...

You've carefully avoided including TeeDee in that little list. Given that PeeBee has his (ahem) enthusiasts around here, I can understand why.

Tend to agree with you, save for including Mr Glen who gave us one good film, one mediocre film, two shockers and something which I'd cheerfully see cremated if that wasn't going to be a waste of a good match (cost 0.3 new British pence).

[rafterman]

I wish Dalton had done more, I thought he was quite good, but I believe that the relative failure of LTK caused a restructuring of the film team, not unheard of considering they'd just made five films with the same writers and director...

[IrishCrown]

As a big-time Pierce Brosnan fan, I am not sorry Dalton didn't do more than he did. MGM without Bond back then was relying on **** like Harley Davidson and the Marlboro Man to make money, and it didn't work. Dalton's moron movies where he made like Alan Alda in The Living Daylights and the Miami Vice-wannabe License To Shrill were just too much for this Bond fan.

[zencat]

Originally posted by IrishCrown
Dalton's moron movies where he made like Alan Alda in The Living Daylights...

Why is Alan Alda still crucified for treating women like human beings? It's such an ugly, dated dig. It's like my dad still calling Jane Fonda a "commie." Get over it.

For the record, I liked the romance in TLD. Kara was an ordinary girl swept up in events and I think Bond felt he needed to protect her and in doing so lost his heart. It worked.

However, I do agree with your dig at LTK's tired Miami Vice-like angle.

[IrishCrown]

This may shock you, but like to watch MASH. However, I really don't go for the politically correct sensitive male that Dalton went for with Bond. Bond is the ultimate male fantasy. Guys want to be him. He takes a licking, but keeps on ticking. I really liked it when Pierce and Sean whacked their women around. They messed with Bond, he will mess with them. On the flip side, when Connery gets nailed by Bambi and Thumper, I am laughing my *** off.

[JimmyBond]

Dalton was also playing Fleming's Bond. And Fleming's Bond rarely got mixed up with more than one girl. Theres no doubt about it though, Dalton is the most ruthless and deadliest Bond, you have no idea what he's gonna do, and that makes him unpredicatble.

Sure he wasnt that great with the comedy, but then again, perhaps it was time they got rid of the lame one liners (lord knows TWINE would have been much more enjoyable without them). As it stands for me, Brosnan is my favorite Bond, but if Dalton had been given a shot, I think he could have been the best Bond.

[Bondpurist]

Dalton didn't like all the limelight - he wasn't used to it - so he decided to move on.

[IrishCrown]

So he took the Clark Gable role in Scarlett....good move, Dalton, people are still laughing their off over that one.

[IrishCrown]

If Dalton didn't like the limelight, why in the name of God did he take such a high-profile role as James Bond in the first place? Knowing that he hated publicity and still took the role anyway doesn't make Dalton look all too bright.

[Bondpurist]

He wanted to change the Bond series for the better, make it more serious and bring back its respectability. He did that, and decided that his mission was complete, and thus he packed it in to move on and advance his career in other areas.

[IrishCrown]

Oh, and how he has advanced his career! More likely, he jumped ship before he was pushed. His career has almost suffered the same way Lazenby's did when he jumped ship. How many Tim Dalton movies has the mainstream public rushed out to see? Were there really more than 5 people who paid to see American Outlaws?