25 replies to this topic

[neversaynever]

I am a big fan of the David Arnold scores, even if I do think the score for Die Another Day is the weakest of the three. He has taken Bond music in a different direction, and has done some very interesting things. "Backseat driver" from Tomorrow Never Dies, "Pipeline" from The World Is Not Enough and the music to the surfing scene in DAD are personal favourites. But after David Arnold, who should compose the score for the Bond films, and what sort of score should it be?

I am not suggesting that I think that it is time David Arnold should move on: basically, I’d be happy for him to keep doing to scores for as long as he wants to do them. But when it does come time for him to give up this job, who should take over, or what should happen to Bond music? Do you think there should be a return to the pre-David Arnold style of Bond music? (And no, I am not suggesting that we should bring back Eric Serra – shudder! – but maybe a return to the John Barry style of music.) Or do you think it’s time for another radical departure?

The reason I was thinking about this is that I was listening to a CD the other day and it just occurred to me that the music I was listening to was kind of “Bond-esque”, and that I could really envisage that artist producing some great tracks to accompany a Bond film if he was given the chance. When I tell you who it was, your instant reaction might be disbelief or horror at the prospect, but what I would say to this is that David Arnold has proven that a different style of Bond music can work. I think that while what I am suggesting would again be a new direction for Bond music, it would really be something that could work well.

The CD I was listening to was the fifth album by Enigma, otherwise known as Michael Cr

Edited by neversaynever, 12 January 2004 - 11:37 PM.

[Qwerty]

Congrats on the 100, it's an important mark!

Basically, I agree that DAD is his weakest, in that it I still like it though,
I hope he does some more scores the Bond film, I don't have any major problems with him at all.

I've been wanting to see Danny Elfman do one Bond score, I don't know if he'd be the right choice, but I have always been interested.

Good thread.

~Devin
--Qwerty--

[SnakeEyes]

I wish Barry had never 'quit'. But Arnold isn't bad, as such. He's just too...samey.

Whoever follows Arnold should change style.

[trs007]

I thouroughly enjoy David Arnold's Bond music and hope it continues. I hope the Wilson/Broccolli and the director of the month don't attempt another radical departure (ala Eric Serra). That was a failure and Wilson pretty much admitted as much on the GE audio commentary. Let's face it--they rescored the tank sequence, so at some point, someone in EoN finally had the presence of mind to say--this sucks.

Although it will probably NEVER happen, I would love to see what would happen if Jerry Goldsmith got a Bond gig. (One might also hold their breath for a return of John Bary). In a more realistic vein, one composer of late whose action scores aren't dissapointing is John Powell (most recently Italian Job and Paycheck, although he also did Cody Banks).

In the meantime, here's hoping Arnold enjoys the gig for many more films to come.

[JackChase007]

I thouroughly enjoy David Arnold's Bond music and hope it continues. I hope the Wilson/Broccolli and the director of the month don't attempt another radical departure (ala Eric Serra). That was a failure and Wilson pretty much admitted as much on the GE audio commentary. Let's face it--they rescored the tank sequence, so at some point, someone in EoN finally had the presence of mind to say--this sucks.

Although it will probably NEVER happen, I would love to see what would happen if Jerry Goldsmith got a Bond gig. (One might also hold their breath for a return of John Bary). In a more realistic vein, one composer of late whose action scores aren't dissapointing is John Powell (most recently Italian Job and Paycheck, although he also did Cody Banks).

In the meantime, here's hoping Arnold enjoys the gig for many more films to come.

TRS - although it is impossible, I too would be curious to see Goldsmith (my favorite composer) do a Bond score. I would even just love to hear him do an arrangement of the "James Bond Theme"...

As for Powell - love his scores to The Bourne Identity and The Italian Job. Not sure if he's Bond material, though - but I would love for him to score The Bourne Supremacy...

[Kingdom Come]

Trs007, Wilson did no such thing. What he said was that Serra was 'kind of an experiment... I think it worked out pretty well".

Personally, I dislike Arnold's scores, apart from his love themes. He has taken the series backwards instead of forwards - copying John Barry is not good enough and is very lazy. What Serra did was what Barry did near the begining of the series and composed music that we had not heard before - he re-invented music for the movies in a very unusual way - that's what Serra did. I think his score to Goldeneye is one of the most provocotive and interesting film scores of the last twenty years.

[trs007]

Perhaps, except you seem to be the only one who likes hearing what Serra did for GE. As for Wilson's quote: During the commentary on the LAser Disc, which I belive is the same on the DVD--during Serra's "credit" he said that that decision was very controversial.

Also, explain the tank sequence rescoring if you love Serra so much and who among us, after hearing the Serra tank chase on the CD, would have wanted that indulgent piece of crap during the tank chase.

KC: Your love of Serra and dislike of Arnold is well-known from many other posts. If you like Serra so much, fine--but don't tell me he did anything innovation for Bond--he just rehashed the same crap he did for Nikita, The Professional and every other film he and Luc Besson were in bed together on and got the "honor" of adding a Bond film to at that point, an umpressive film resume.

[TGO]

I would love to see a Don Davis score.

[Harmsway]

I'll second a Don Davis Bond score. I'd also like to see Howard Shore take a crack at it, or see John Barry come back (a fan's dream, I know).

Since it seems that Arnold is going to do Bond 21, I'm actually quite interested in what he'll do for his next film. He stated that after DAD, the music needed to take a different direction. I'm wondering what it is. I'd love a full blown brassy/jazz score like TND, but with minimal techno. The problem is, I wonder if Arnold can make it genuinely interesting without it sounding like a re-tread.

I think Arnold needs to take a lighter approach to his scoring. DAD sounded far too heavy in parts... lost a lot of the fun of TND and TWINE (however, TWINE also got bogged down in places, just not as much). It just tries too hard to be dramatic. Step back and make it fun! It's a Bond movie, for crying out loud!

[JackChase007]

It's hard to say down the line really - it seems that Arnold is quite happy scoring Bond films, and Broccoli and Wilson seem quite happy with his music, so it seems like Arnold will be sticking around for awhile. Who knows what new composers will pop up in years to come, and who will drift away from the industry, etc.

[Kingdom Come]

Trs007, your own dislike of Serra is well known from your other posts. If you believe that Serra rehashed; then what the bejusus did Arnold do?

The reason Wilson said that the choice of Serra was controversial is because it was said after the fact and people like you and many others, as I know I am in the minority, made the decision controversial.

All film music is self indulgent, as all films are self indulgent, as all threads and all posts are self indulgent!

[Turn]

Although he's probably out of the question, I wish Jerry Goldsmith would get a chance at a Bond score. Besides Barry, he is probably even more so, the most versatile film composer of all.

[Lotman]

I think we have a quite capable composer here...
Stick to David Arnold! Please. After searching years for one (even Kamen, although it's an enjoyable score, didn't do something really remarkable)... keep him!

And if you tortured me, I would come up with Joel McNeely or Edward Shearmur as replacements. McNeely because I think he can adapt styles very well (Air Force One < Goldsmith, Star Wars < Williams), and because he can freshen up 'older themes' (The Avengers). Shearmur because of Johnny English of course.

Edited by Lotman, 13 January 2004 - 10:29 PM.

[Dmitri Mishkin]

Lotman and Harmsway have made great points. David Arnold truly is a very capable composer, and even though some of us may not like certain parts of his scores, he really does have an incredible ability and talent. That said, his score does get "really heavy" in DAD and TWINE, much more than needed. For example, those Lisa Gerrard-like vocals by Natacha Atlas during the Graves fight-Moon death defined excess (besides being wildly out of place in a Bond picture). Not to mention some of the very moody work for Renard in TWINE, which coupled with the movie itself, was overly dramatic/somber. Let's see Arnold take the music to new places, this time, and also see him do some more creative "writing" as we've seen in the past, and as he's very capable of doing! He just doesn't seem as fresh nowadays as he was 8 years ago. That said, I don't see the music moving too far away, or completely, from "techno." Techno is the style du jour, and will remain an essential part of the overall 'contemporizing' of the series.

But I suppose, also if tortured, Shearmur does seem capable. The suggestions of Jerry Goldsmith and Hans Zimmer, both of which are great composers, are simply too commercial, though. I would like to see someone who we've not seen before, come in, sit down and write an exquisite score for our next Bond. Much like the movies -- we need more of those unknown, shining stars to come in (Isabella Scorupco) and freshen up this franchise. Less old, more new. Anyway.

Edited by Dmitri Mishkin, 14 January 2004 - 07:38 PM.

[BackseatDriver]

I would agree with the Edward Shearmur recommendation, he is one of the more talented of the new crop of composers. Also, it sounds odd, but listen to Graeme Revell's score for 'The Saint' - it has a truly Bondian love theme and great, propulsive action. Trevor Jones might also be a great Bond composer, as would Michael Giacchino.

As for Arnold's work, for the most part I have enjoyed them, but sometimes the scores work better as above-average action music instead of Bond style scoring. He noted in the DAD interviews that there was only so much he could do with Bond as a composer and this I found surprising. For someone who professes to be such a Barry/Bond fan, how the hell does he think Barry composed both scores and songs for 11 Bond films? The reason is that Barry approached each film as its own entity, that way Goldfinger does not sound Thunderball which does not sound like Moonraker. Arnold simply comes on and scores it as a simple James Bond picture and is not giving each film more individuality. That is why he is burning out. I agree that he needs to back off on the techno next time out, but since this is still all the rage musically speaking, it will probably feature prominently.

Edited by BackseatDriver, 19 January 2004 - 11:01 PM.

[Tanger]

I quite like the work of the likes of Graeme Revell and Alan Silvestri. I'd love it if one of those could do a Bond score. Their scores are so comfortable and they really help you get into the movie. I'd love to see how they'd handle Bond.

[level007]

As for Arnold's work, for the most part I have enjoyed them, but sometimes the scores work better as above-average action music instead of Bond style scoring.  He noted in the DAD interviews that there was only so much he could do with Bond as a composer and this I found surprising.  For someone who professes to be such a Barry/Bond fan, how the hell does he think Barry composed both scores and songs for 11 Bond films?  The reason is that Barry approached each film as its own entity, that way Goldfinger does not sound Thunderball which does not sound like Moonraker.  Arnold simply comes on and scores it as a simple James Bond picture and is not giving each film more individuality.  That is why he is burning out.  I agree that he needs to back off on the techno next time out, but since this is still all the rage musically speaking, it will probably feature prominently.

To bondian.

I think you are wrong on your statement about Arnold coming a each film lile it's a james bond movie. if you say this, i ll say the same for Barry during his last three or four bond movie.
I mean it' true that during the connery's movies, each films had it's mood and own atmoshpere, but now it's the movies that have changed.
I am sure Arnold would love to give each films its own style of music, but that's impossible with the new films, there are not made for that.

To Kingdom come who said that Arnold is a rehashed and that only Serra refresh by bringing some think original. It's true in a way, but let me tell you that it's not because it's original that it's adapted. I don't dislike the goldeneye score, i like the begining and Both tank chase music (the serra's one and the Altman'one), but i understand that when th emovie came out in 1995, after a six years wait, people were waiting for Big Bond music. that's all. Tell me that when you saw the movie for the fist time you were not a bit dissapointed that there was not a old school use of the james bond theme (except for the tank chase).
One more point, the title song didn't appear in the score (i know it's not serra's fault), which was dissapointing in the same way of DAD.

For me, Arnold is just the man, and i know it can be original, listen to his score for Changing lanes, which is quite original and very well integrated in the movie experience.

Last thing, i don't understand why people dislike DAD score. It's just pure fun, excitment, tracks like "Welcome to cuba" didn't appear in a bond movie for more than 20 years. My only problem is that we do not hear very well the score i the movie. So please, If the powers that be listen to me now, increase volume of the score like in the old films, i don't car that the Hovercraft engine blows my hears, i prefer to let this job to David Arnold !

[JackChase007]

[quote name='level007' date='20 January 2004 - 11:14'] [quote name='BackseatDriver' date='19 January 2004 - 23:59']
As for Arnold's work, for the most part I have enjoyed them, but sometimes the scores work better as above-average action music instead of Bond style scoring.

[Agent 76]

I think this last 3 movies , were weak in terms of music/score...I guess I would like to see David Arnold team up with John Barry , and they together , combine diferent styles but even so make a good music and terrific soundtracks to Bond movies , Eon should consider/think of this...say this, why not? don't you think?
so...let's wait and see what they'll give us in the near future

[Johnboy007]

I do not think that Tomorrow Never Dies was weak. Bond needed something big and loud, after the quiet score of Goldeneye. Tomorrow Never Dies was loud, modern, old-school,brassy, and at some points in your face, something Bond hadn't had in a long time.

[Kingdom Come]

I don't agree that TND was a modern score - it was anything but modern. It harked back to the past. I want to see a score that not once looks backwards like Serra did - we need the next scores to look forwards and find something new and orginal. I have had enough of the brassy sound; its over, its had its life; now try and be as fresh and as inventive as Barry was at the begining and Seera was 10 years ago.

[Johnboy007]

Backseat Driver had no modern elements? Hamburg Break In and Out had no modern elements?

In my opinion he did a good job in combining the old with the new, Serra comtemporized Bond, I have to give him credit for that, but Arnold made it work.

[Dmitri Mishkin]

I don't agree that TND was a modern score - it was anything but modern. It harked back to the past. I want to see a score that not once looks backwards like Serra did - we need the next scores to look forwards and find something new and orginal. I have had enough of the brassy sound; its over, its had its life; now try and be as fresh and as inventive as Barry was at the begining and Seera was 10 years ago.

Hi Kingdom,

It seems you have a particular vendetta against Arnold Perhaps you are not acknowledging where Arnold has used modern elements in his scores. In TND alone, Backseat Driver, The Bike Chase, Hamburg Break In, Hamburg Break Out all incorporate electronic elements. In TWINE, the opening boat chase and the later Caviar factory scene also use techno/electronic elements.

What Arnold has done, at least in the cases of TND, is to "look back" by acknowledging John Barry, and at the same time look forward, using contemporary modern electronic sounds. But Arnold doesn't look forward in the same way as Serra did; Serra fostered an entirely new direction, which really is an extreme, and as well all know, extremes don't handle well amongst us fans.

It seems patently clear that the brassy sound you mention is integrated into the image of Bond, and as such, can never be totally excised from the series. For example, GoldenEye would not have been the same to me without the signature brassy Bond theme to accompany the tank chase. It simply screamed a Bondian moment.

So, I appreciate you want fresh and inventiveness (I do too), but I don't want to lose sight of the Bondian heritage, so to speak. Hopefully Arnold can give us both this time.

[level007]

Honestly, saying that Anrold is not using modern music in his bond score is just stup.. and i am tired of hearing that.
Even if i am not a fan of the goldeneye score, i agree that it was an original score.
but please Kingdom come, even if you hate arnold, at least you can recognize that he is using modern element.

For me, and right now, there is nobody that can follow Arnold. Just listen to hovercraft chase. It's just bombastic, exiting and bonding music ! Don't forget for example that DAD was BOND 20 and came for the 40th anniversary of bond. And in this point Arnold music is delivering more than what we could expect: bond music, exciting action, bond theme, love theme, big villain theme,etc.

Arnold is THE guy right now, and as barbara Broccoli always say when people talk about Brosnan replacement: Arnold is here and there is no reason to think about who's next.

i ll say the end in french (my native language)

David Arnold est un dieu !

J.

Edited by level007, 01 February 2004 - 02:44 PM.

[Dmitri Mishkin]

Hi Level,

True, David Arnold has shown he can be original (with scores like Changing Lanes). He definitely creates high octane, trademark bombastic action music, and not in a generic way such as *some* Media Ventures music (which I also enjoy).
But he's written wonderful themes for Stargate, Independence Day and Tomorrow Never Dies. I'm waiting for him to produce another fantastic score of THAT kind -- lush, grand, traditional and yet modern and inventive (as Kingdom Come argues for) ... but weaved together by one tremendous theme. For me, that would be an ideal score and I believe he is capable of the task.

Vive Arnold

Edited by Dmitri Mishkin, 01 February 2004 - 01:40 AM.

[TGO]

After hearing Arnold's 3 scores, one might get the impression that he is a very lazy composer. Already using motifs from TND in the TWINE score? He does good action themes and his love themes are so-so, his best IMO is Electra's theme. I think he should be given a break for a movie or so, and let someone else try. Like Don Davis for instance.