33 replies to this topic

[Bondian]

Yes, it's a another one of those "what the f... is he on about now" Thread's.

Ok, for those of you who own a 16:9 'widescreen' television, do you 'stretch' the 4:3 image to fill the sides of the television?.

Correct me if I'm wrong but if you 'stretch' a 4:3 image into 16:9 do you lose the top's of the Actor's heads?.

So many people that I know do this and I find it irritating. They either have the image so everyone look's like they've gained 30 stone, or they simply select 16:9 on a 4:3 image which cut's off the heads.

What do you chap's and chapesses think?.


Merry Christmas,

All the best,

Cheers,


I _ A _ N

[TGO]

Well, unless one has a projection TV, and doesnt want their televison to be burned-in, then I dont reccommend it.

[Robinson]

What's done is the image is adjusted from top to bottom a-la "pan n' scan."

I forgot what the industry jargon is for this technique but it's got a cute nickname as well.

[Bondian]

Hi Robinson,

"Pan and Scan" is basically a 16:9 image that is put though a machine that scan's the image from left to right.

What I'm saying is the image is 'expanded' width way's so the image loses the top and bottom.


Cheers,

Iam

[Triton]

Yes, the image is cropped on the top and bottom often cuting off a person's forehead when you Wide Zoom a 4:3 image on a 16:9 television.

[Bondian]

It's funny, but the only time I use the 'zoom' is when I'm watching a 2.25:1 Widescreen Image, but if it's a 1:66.1 or 1:33.1 I usually just leave it be. I know that when your watching a 4:3 image you can get it looking like the way the Director by 'cropping' the top and bottom, but you do lose picture quality.

Cheers Triton,


Ian

[Triton]

So do I understand correctly that LCD and DLP projection televisions don't have problems with phosphor burn-in but plasma, 3 electron gun projection, and traditional CRT (picture tube) televisions have problems with phosphor burn-in?

[Bondian]

Hi Triton,

I'm not experienced with Plasma or Projection. I was referring to CRT Widescreen Televisions.


Cheers,

Ian

[rafterman]

well when I go home next month I'll check it out on my old man's new widescreen TV, but I'd say don't stretch it and let there be black bars on the side....never stretch or reshape pictures...it's just so wrong...

[Bondian]

Hi rafterman,

Your right, but quite a lot of people do it.

All the best,

Cheers,


Ian

[Kingdom Come]

Depends on the make of your widescreen t.v. I have a Philips and Toshiba and both have several ways you can choose to view any type of ratio. If you watch a 2:35 on Toshiba - you can choose 'Cinema' which gets rid of any black lines. If you have the 1:85 Amamorphic film then the televisions screen will be filled. As for television pictures not in widescreen - keep em as they are, your television should be 'set' so as when an old television programme not in widescreen comes on the screen will correct itself and show it the old fashioned way, when it is finished and a widescreen programme follows, then the television again will correct itself. In Europe, most of our television programmes have been in widescreen for a good few years, but I know this is still not the case in America. Bondian, NEVER, NEVER, use the zoom to watch a film -way too distorted - thats not what the zoom is intended for.

Sorry if this sounds obvious, but I am VERY TIRED! and writing this at an ungodly hour with a blanket wrapped round me! I want to say more on this topic but the old brain is not kicking in, so I'm off!! Merry Christmas everybody.

[Bondian]

Hi KC,

My Friend, you have made several good points. But I only use the 'zoom' on a 2:35 movie to stop it being in 4:3.

As I've mentioned previously some people stretch a 4:3 picture because they find it daft that it doesn't fill the sides of the screen. That's what I find irritating.

Merry Christmas to you KC,

All the best,

Cheers,


Ian

[mattbowyer]

It's still amazing (see any Roger Ebert answer man column) how many people still can't quite grasp the concept of what widescreen actually is.

[Triton]

It may seem silly to most of you to zoom and therefore crop a 4:3 image to completely fill the 16:9 aspect ratio of a widescreen television. But the articles I have read do not recommend that black bars or any other static image be displayed for any great length of time because of uneven phosphor wear and phosphor burn-in. I still haven't been able to find information about whether there is an issue with image burn-in with LCD screens, LCD projection, and DLP projection, but image burn-in is a real issue for three gun projection, plasma, and traditional CRT televisions.

The article Things You Should Know About About HDTV on the Cox Communications web site has the following information about burn-in:

Burn-in
If you consistently watch standard-definition (4:3 aspect ratio) programming on a wide-screen (16:9 aspect ratio) HDTV with sidebars activated over very long periods of time, you may ruin your HDTV's ability to display colors evenly across the screen. Similarly, constant viewing of 16:9 wide-screen content on a 4:3 aspect ratio HDTV with letter boxing can cause the same problem. Why? The inside of your HDTV's screen is lined with thousands of tiny phosphors, which glow red, green, or blue when struck by an electron beam (that is what creates the color in color TVs). The more a phosphor is heated by electrons, the faster it ages and diminishes in intensity (that is why the picture on an old TV eventually fades to black). If all of the phosphors in a screen age evenly, the set's picture will gradually fade over time without distortions.However, if part of the screen is left blank for long periods of time, the phosphors in the black areas will not age at all, so they will appear brighter than the areas around them when the screen is filled again. This is a risk that you incur when watching content on your HDTV with sidebars or letter boxing. Both the television manufacturers and Cox recommend that you do not activate or display sidebars or letterboxes for prolonged periods of time as this may degrade the quality of the HDTV. Consult your HDTV owner's manual for details.

The Keohi HDTV web site provides images of what uneven phosphor wear looks like in the article Burn-in.

Mitsubishi's Web site contains the following information about digital television warranties and phosphor burn-in:

Standard-shaped TVs are designed primarily for viewing standard-shaped full-motion video. The majority of images displayed on them should be standard-shaped and constantly moving. Displaying stationary images, such as letterbox images with top/bottom bars (wide screen pictures), should be limited to 15% of total viewing per week.  

Wide screen TVs are designed primarily for viewing wide screen images. The majority of images displayed on them should be wide screen-shaped or expanded to fill the screen, and constantly moving. Displaying stationary images, such as side-bars shown on non-expanded standard-shape TV pictures, should be limited to 15% of total viewing per week. Viewing other stationary images such as stock market reports, video game patterns, station logos, web sites or computer style patterns should be similarly limited. These types of stationary images displayed on any projection tube system can cause uneven aging of the tubes and leave a subtle but permanent ghost image in the picture. To avoid this, mix the types of pictures you watch, with the majority filling the screen with moving images, not stationary patterns or black bars. Use the POP, zoom and/or expand features (on models that offer them) whenever necessary to fill the screen.  

Be careful in your selection of TV format as the uneven aging resulting from excessive viewing in the wrong format is not covered under your warranty.

So be a little more supportive of your friends who zoom a 4:3 image on their 16:9 televisons. Don't automatically presume that they aren't sophisticated or knowledgable viewers.

[Kingdom Come]

Oh I get you now... u haven't got a widescreen television? It all makes sense now! Sorry thought u had one....

[Triton]

Originally posted by mattbowyer
It's still amazing (see any Roger Ebert answer man column) how many people still can't quite grasp the concept of what widescreen actually is.

Well you cannot expect moms and dads who buy a DVD to keep Timmy and Sally entertained using the four inch LCD screens in their minivan to be enthusiastic about letterbox. Nor can you expect viewers with their 13 to 20 inchl CRT televisions to be enthusiastic about letterbox either.

Plus, most non-cinema buffs don't realized that there are multiple widescreen formats-- 1.66:1 , 1.85:1, and 2.35:1 being the most common. Most people also don't realize that widescreen 16:9 televisions work out to be 1.77:1 and are surprised by the black bars.

Check out the following article Widescreen Unravelled if you are still confused about widescreen, but were afraid to ask.

If you are still confused about anamorphic widescreen, check out the following article The Ultimate Guide to Anamorphic Widescreen DVD. This article is especially helpful because the studios use different terminology to identify anamorphic widescreen on the DVD box.

[Kingdom Come]

Triton, widescreen television is, as u know, the future... so from now to eternity, we are going to have to watch 4:3 programmes as well as 16:9s on widescreen television sets - so black at the sides have to remain until technology catches up and deals with the problems viewing such ratios in the future - and technology will as there is no alternative -what is the alternative? no more watching programmes prior to 2000?

[Triton]

Double post, sorry.

[Kingdom Come]

Triton, if Mummy and Daddy and Timmy and Sally are that interested in films they wouldnt have bought widescreen dvds in the first place to view on something that small. Equally, u cannot expect the rest of us with large widescreen televisions to be exited by a pan and scan approach - works both ways.

To quote yourself "Don't automaticaaly presume that 'they' arn't sophisticated or knowledgable viewers".

[Simon]

Good article - cheers.

[Bondian]

Kingdom Come - Not sure whether you refering to me, but I do have a Panasonic Widescreen Surround-Sound Television.

Cheers,


Ian

[Kingdom Come]

u do!!!!...... not let me get this right.... if u have a widescreen television why the bejesus would you need to use zoom on 4:3 programmes? by doing this not only is the quality appalling but your picture will be "illogical Captain"! people on screen will be unaturally stretched...
I see u r from England, which makes your comments even stranger! If you were in America, then I may understand, as the Americans still have to catch up

[Triton]

Originally posted by Kingdom Come
Triton, widescreen television is, as u know, the future... so from now to eternity, we are going to have to watch 4:3 programmes as well as 16:9s on widescreen television sets - so black at the sides have to remain until technology catches up and deals with the problems viewing such ratios in the future - and technology will as there is no alternative -what is the alternative? no more watching programmes prior to 2000?

I guess we as consumers need to be educated when considering a wide screen television purchase and perhaps pay a little more for television sets that have features to help minimize the phosphur wear issue or purchase televisions that do not have phosphur wear issues like LCD and DLP.

For example, the 50 inch Fujitsu Plasmavision model P50XHA10US has two features to minimize uneven phosphur wear and burn-in. The first is the Screen Orbiter, which discreetly shifts the entire image between five and fifteen pixels every hour, thus keeping still images from sitting in one place for too long. The second feature, the White Screen, turns the entire screen white and can be set on a timer. I presume that the other manufacturers have similar technology in some of their sets.

But the uneven phosphur wear/burn-in issue is a real problem and certainly dampens my enthusiasm for going out and buying a widescreen high definition television at this time. Hopefully, the television manufacturers will come up with new techniques or technologies that will help to minimize this issue. But I think that it will always be a potential problem for plasma, CRT, and electron gun projection televisions.

[Kingdom Come]

I've had my Philips widescreen television for 8 years now - I think I'm right in saying that it was the first of its kind and was the first to win awards - it is simply superb and I am not going to tempt fate by saying that as yet, I have had................ trouble whatsover!!!

[Triton]

Originally posted by Kingdom Come
Triton, if Mummy and Daddy and Timmy and Sally are that interested in films they wouldnt have bought widescreen dvds in the first place to view on something that small. Equally, u cannot expect the rest of us with large widescreen televisions to be exited by a pan and scan approach - works both ways.  

To quote yourself "Don't automaticaaly presume that 'they' arn't sophisticated or knowledgable viewers".

Sorry, I never meant for my post to mean that I was anti-widescreen or anti-letterbox. I was just trying to point out that there are some instances in which someone would prefer to have the dreaded pan & scan to the widescreen version of a film. I'm delighted that most of the films released on DVD are released in widescreen, and most recently anamorphic widescreen, for viewing in the original aspect ratio in which they were shot.

[Triton]

Originally posted by Kingdom Come
I've had my Philips widescreen television for 8 years now - I think I'm right in saying that it was the first of its kind and was the first to win awards - it is simply superb and I am not going to tempt fate by saying that as yet, I have had................ trouble whatsover!!!

I'm delighted to hear this and hope that you continue to have many more years of trouble-free enjoyment.

[Athena007]

There should be an option on your DVD player about filling the screen... and there should be an option in there were you won't loose anything. I know I'm not of much help. But play around with your DVD player, there should be some screen options in the system

[Bondian]

Originally posted by Kingdom Come
u do!!!!...... not let me get this right.... if u have a widescreen television why the bejesus would you need to use zoom on 4:3 programmes? by doing this not only is the quality appalling but your picture will be "illogical Captain"! people on screen will be unaturally stretched...
I see u r from England, which makes your comments even stranger! If you were in America, then I may understand, as the Americans still have to catch up

KC, would you please read my original post because I don't think that you've read it right.

I'll repeat!. I DO NOT STRETCH THE 4:3 TO 16:9 ON MY WIDESCREEN TV. OTHER PEOPLE DO THIS, AND IT'S THIS THAT ANNOYS ME.

Did you get it this time?. Great, thanks.


Cheers,


Ian

[Kingdom Come]

Bondian that is not what u said originally - i c u have rewriiten parts!!!!

[Bondian]

KC, sorry mate but I've got lost in this thread, but my 'starter' post did mention that I do not stretch a 4:3 picture to 16:9.

I think it could of been my wording in my thread 'starter' post. I don't alway's word things properly so I apologise to you KC and all the posters that haven't really understood my meaning.

Merry Christmas,

All the best,

Cheers,


Ian