41 replies to this topic

[Loomis]

Okay, I know it seems highly unlikely that Eon will ever sanction directors' cuts of Bond films (that said, would new versions of some, not all, of the films be out of the question for DVD in, say, 2007?), but which films could be touched up?

I've read that GOLDENEYE was cut by around 12 minutes shortly before release (according to "The Bond Files" by Andy Lane and Paul Simpson: "Nine minutes of this was trimming of existing scenes - including one of the Tiger helicopter looping the loop after it had been stolen - but two whole scenes were removed, one of which concerned Zukovsky").

Sure, these things are often cut for very good reasons, and longer ain't necessarily better (fnarr). But I must admit that I'd love to see a more complete version of GOLDENEYE (with Xenia's headbutt of Natalya, cut by the UK censor, also restored).

THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH bears strong signs of heavy (and hamfisted) pre-release editing, and it's crying out for a makeover. I'd love to see the parahawk/ski chase sequence re-edited (if only so that it might make some kind of sense). A lot of material from the boat chase was also supposedly cut, so as not to delay the opening credits any longer. I'd like to see the deleted Renard and Cigar Girl scene that originally led into the main titles put back in, with the death of King and the full-length boat chase coming afterwards, as originally intended.

The scene in which Bond checks Zukovsky's pulse could be reinstated, as could Scott Walker's end title song (I understand that the latter was dropped after previews). Who knows? With deleted scenes restored, TWINE might become coherent - it might actually turn into a good film.:eek:

What else is there? A longer and more violent version of LICENCE TO KILL would be nice (basically, the Japanese version) - Krest's expanding and exploding head would probably be okay for a 15-certificate film in this day and age (TERMINATOR 3 is a 12 on DVD, for heaven's sake). The "flying carpet" scene could make it back into THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS, and A VIEW TO A KILL could gain the Paris police station sequence.

Thoughts?

[brendan007]

I really dont understand people's fascination with wanting to see directors cuts. Most of the time the scenes are cut for the good of the film, so whats the point in putting them back?
I of course would love to see all the deleted scenes, just not back in the film. Just leave them as special features on dvds where they belong.
I personally love all the bond films the way they are, and I want nobody going back and tampering with them.

[Loomis]

Originally posted by brendan007

Most of the time the scenes are cut for the good of the film, so whats the point in putting them back?

Scenes aren't always cut for the good of the film, though. They're sometimes cut to meet running time restrictions, or because there wasn't enough time to fine-tune them. Sometimes films can really benefit from re-edits after years have passed (BLADE RUNNER, A TOUCH OF EVIL....).

Originally posted by brendan007

I of course would love to see all the deleted scenes, just not back in the film.

You and I differ on that one. I want to see deleted scenes only if re-inserted into the film. I don't like watching them otherwise, since I feel they lack context and are pretty meaningless and boring.

Originally posted by brendan007

I personally love all the bond films the way they are, and I want nobody going back and tampering with them.  

I'd like to see director's cuts, but not of all the Bond films. Many of them are indeed perfect as they are, but something like TWINE could really use a few more sessions in the cutting room IMO.

I don't see the harm in director's cut DVDs (they'd give us fans more to collect) provided they didn't do a Lucas and withdraw the original versions from circulation. The theatrical edits must always be available.

[Ezekiel]

I can't see the point in a director's cut of Bons movies... unless they felt really harshly done by and feel their film is "incomplete"... I don't recall that being said by a Bond director very explicitly, but then I could have easily missed something. Something like the Lord of the Rings trilogy whereby Peter Jackson has had to cut the movie down for theatrical release, but then has every intention of putting a longer version out to bring us a "completed" film, then fine, but I don't think Bond really needs it.

[Sensualist]

An already long (not a bad thing by any means) OHMSS could be longer. Bond's roof-top chase of a hencman in London was cut.

Going the other way, Thunderball (my number 1 James Bond film of them all) could benifit by tighter editing of the 'underwater mayhem' scenes, i.e. a shorter running time.

Similiarly, Moonraker (one of my top 6 Bonds) could benifit from 'trimming' of a couple of silly bits. This trimming COULD make the movie into a more serious thriller that would likely make it shoot up through the ranks from a 'Bottom 5' Bond to a 'Top 5' monstrous globe-trotting 'Bond And Beyond' epic.

Finally, Tomorrow Never Dies could be made into more of an adult picture if the Stamper character was further fleshed out on screen. Raymond's novelization portrayed Stamper as an animal who was into extremely kinky and sadistic sex. To the point of accidentally (/perhaps intentionally) killing submissives during heated carnal activity.

[Loomis]

Originally posted by Sensualist

Going the other way, Thunderball (my number 1 James Bond film of them all) could benifit by tighter editing of the 'underwater mahem' scenes, i.e. a shorter running time.

Similiarly, Moonraker (one of my top 6 Bonds) could benifit from 'trimming' of a couple of silly bits.  

Exactly.

NEVER SAY NEVER AGAIN wants extending, IMO (but not a gunbarrel opening or the James Bond Theme, thank you very much). I believe it was fairly heavily cut before release.

[IndyB007]

Originally posted by Loomis
...A longer and more violent version of LICENCE TO KILL would be nice (basically, the Japanese version)...

This is the first time that I've noticed a Japanese version of LTK being mentioned that is longer and more violent. Do you have any info as to what exactly has been added into the Japanese version? Hmmm.. it might be worth tracking down a copy on laserdisc....

[Loomis]

Originally posted by IndyB007

This is the first time that I've noticed a Japanese version of LTK being mentioned that is longer and more violent.  Do you have any info as to what exactly has been added into the Japanese version?  

I used to own a Japanese VHS copy of LTK, and I don't recall any unseen scenes. From memory, it just has a longer and more graphic death scene for Krest, and the whipping of Lupe may go on for a couple of seconds longer than in the UK version. I can't remember whether we see her lover getting stabbed.

Actually, I also think the fights towards the end of the film may be a bit bloodier in the Japanese cut than they are in the UK one. Certainly, I think there are a couple of shots of the machete-wielding Sanchez standing over the bleeding Bond, and of Sanchez staggering around in flames, that are missing from the UK version.

I have a feeling that the Japanese version of LTK may be identical to the US version. Anyone here able to confirm or deny that?

I posted the following on another thread (http://forums.comman...&threadid=12729): Is the US cut of LTK more graphically violent than the UK one? I've read that the Japanese version is the most complete, although when I watched it the only thing that struck me was that Krest's death was more gruesome, with more detail of his head expanding and exploding. Scratch that, much more detail - I don't think we even see his head swelling up at all in the UK version (although I'm not 100% on that right now). From memory, he puts his hands to his ears, we cut to Sanchez and hear a bang, and then there's a quick shot of blood on the window.

[IndyB007]

Thanx for the info. I guess to be certain, I'll have to track that laserdisc down! Not that I mind at all, and the Japanese cover artwork is usually rather unique as well. In the US version we see Krest's head start to expand and then cut to Sanchez for the explosion, I do believe. Don't know about the length of the whipping scene, and we do not see her lover being stabbed, just her him scream. I guess I have heard that the Sanchez running around in flames was cut down, so it is prolly full length in the Japanese version? I'm on the hunt for yet another 007 collectible, the Japanese laserdisc of Licence To Kill!

[Loomis]

Originally posted by IndyB007

the Japanese cover artwork is usually rather unique as well.  

Hmmm.... I wouldn't get your hopes up on that one. The Japanese VHS tape I bought had exactly the same cover art as the current UK video/DVD release (except that the text was in Japanese, obviously).

Originally posted by IndyB007

In the US version we see Krest's head start to expand and then cut to Sanchez for the explosion, I do believe.

Well, I'm pretty sure we see more of that in the Japanese version. I believe we see Krest's head start to expand, and then we the Sanchez reaction shot, etc., but we also have a shot of the head in its full swollen mode just prior to blowing up. I don't think we actually see a full-on SCANNERS-style explosion, but from your description I do think that the Japanese LTK has slightly more nastiness to offer than the US one.

But don't take my word on that, Indy - I don't want to steer you wrong. I'd recommend a bit of research before going ahead and buying the Japanese version of LTK in the belief that it's more explicitly violent than the US cut. Like I say, they may actually be identical.

Originally posted by IndyB007

I'm on the hunt for yet another 007 collectible, the Japanese laserdisc of Licence To Kill!  

Out of interest, why laserdisc? Why not go for the DVD?

[IndyB007]

Is there a non-bootleg release of LTK out on DVD? And Japan is not Region 1, since my region free DVD player has sadly died on me. Laserdisc is better than VHS and does not have that pesky region encoding stuff and Japan's LD's were NTSC in format........ besides, LD's are just so cool......

[Loomis]

Originally posted by IndyB007

Is there a non-bootleg release of LTK out on DVD?  

What do you mean, a non-bootleg release? As far as I know, LTK has been officially (legally) released on DVD in Japan, along with all the other Bond films. It's not like China, where you have to watch practically everything on pirate DVD or VCD or go without (because of strict government censorship, etc.).

Originally posted by IndyB007

And Japan is not Region 1, since my region free DVD player has sadly died on me.  Laserdisc is better than VHS and does not have that pesky region encoding stuff and Japan's LD's were NTSC in format........  

That's a point. I'd forgotten about regional coding of DVDs.

Here in the UK, I have a region two player, but it's PAL (I think). Given that Japanese DVDs are also R2 (but NTSC), are they likely to work on most UK players?

[IndyB007]

An R2 NTSC DVD will work in a R2 or Region Free player that has a video converter that converts the NTSC signal to PAL signal and vice versa....... fun stuff isn't it?

[Loomis]

Originally posted by IndyB007

An R2 NTSC DVD will work in a R2 or Region Free player that has a  video converter that converts the NTSC signal to PAL signal and vice versa.......  

Yes, I think my R2 player will do those conversions. Thanks. I might pick up the Japanese LTK DVD at some point - it'll certainly be an improvement on my current UK DVD copy.

[Simon]

While not wishing for any Director's cuts, certainly a decent cut of TWINE would make sense, and not necessarily to put scenes back in.

Ever the Bond fan, I keep returning to this film to attempt a re-assessment (afterall, I find I like LTK better now than in '89) but at present, I just find it spectacularly boring and dull. This is definitely a film that could do with a shaving of 15mins or so, mainly in the boat chase, ski romp, walkways scene and submarine ending.

As for the rest, they're fine.

[Loomis]

Originally posted by Simon

Ever the Bond fan, I keep returning to this film to attempt a re-assessment (afterall, I find I like LTK better now than in '89) but at present, I just find it spectacularly boring and dull.  

Same here. I think TWINE was made with all the right ideas and intentions, and should have worked, but somehow everything got lost under layers and layers of pomposity. There's a good film in there somewhere, struggling to get out, and perhaps some judicious re-editing could set it free. As it is, it's poorly paced and horribly uneven, with action scenes spliced together in such a way as to be the very definition of "unexciting".

[SnakeEyes]

Probably the best way to make a sucessful cut to TWINE is have the gunbarrel go right to the end credits. lol.

About the UK versions of the films, what else is cut (in any of the films)?
I know both LTK and GE have significant amounts of cuts in fights etc due to stupid rules concerning headbutts and other, hardly graphic, acts of violence.
The DVD of GE, at least, is much less trimmed than the VHS...I remeber getting my DVD and being stunned at all the extra action during the 007/006 fight in the dish maintenence room (which I consider the most realistic depiction of 2 highly trained assasins going 1 on 1 in the whole series, as being a martial artist myself, I can see that this scene would really work and wasn't the usual arm swining routine...)

As for deleted scenes, it would be fun to have them put back in the films, but I think by and large the Bond films have all been cut pretty well.

[Turn]

I'm not sure "director's cut" is the right term here. That is usually the term used when a studio interferes with a director's vision due to controversy, etc. (Star Trek TMP for instance). With Eon, it's all about producer control and MGM is strictly hands-off as far as the final product goes as far as we know.

Maybe expanded edition would be a better phrase. Either way, the thing I'd like to see, which Eon probably has nothing to do with, is that bootleg cut of TLD where the print was stolen. And I'd be curious to see anything they have in the archives as far as deleted scenes go, although I've heard nothing exists from the first six films. Surprising Peter Hunt didn't save all of that for just such an occasion.

Another nice thing to see would be a gag/blooper reel. The Moore era alone would be worth this. Things I've heard about are his mooning the camera during the gunbarrel and his constant harrassment of Desmond Llewelyn. I also saw a cool one on the old Tonight Show with an OP outtake when Maud Adams turns around during their confrontation scene in her chambers. She turns around too quick and nails Rog square in the bollocks.

[Loomis]

Originally posted by Turn

I'm not sure "director's cut" is the right term here. That is usually the term used when a studio interferes with a director's vision due to controversy, etc. (Star Trek TMP for instance). With Eon, it's all about producer control and MGM is strictly hands-off as far as the final product goes as far as we know.  

Well, okay, maybe the producers are the ones doing the interfering with the visions of Bond directors, and not the studio bigwigs, but it makes no difference, surely?

And, yes, I do want to see "director's cut"s, not old Bond flicks given the expanded edition treatment by Barbara Broccoli and people who didn't work on them in the first place, without the input of the directors. What would be the point? We'd have to go from the John Glen era onwards (since the earlier directors are either dead or very, very old indeed), but I'd like Glen, Campbell, Spottiswoode, Apted and Tamahori to be given the opportunity to do "director's cut"s of their Bond films.

It may be that not all of those directors would wish to re-edit their past work, but some of them might. Perhaps Glen thinks, say, FOR YOUR EYES ONLY is perfect as it is, but has always wanted to do some tinkering with THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS.

I'm not calling for a George Lucas job on GOLDFINGER. But if only one or two Bond films were given the director's cut treatment, that would still mean two "new" films for us fans and collectors, and I'm sure that any Bond film would sell very well on DVD in director's cut form, if properly promoted.

And if The Beatles' "Let It Be" can be revised and reissued after nearly 35 years....

Originally posted by Turn

Another nice thing to see would be a gag/blooper reel. The Moore era alone would be worth this.  

But the Moore era was one big blooper reel. If they included a "wanker's reel" (as John Glen used to call them) on the OCTOPUSSY DVD it would be tricky to tell it apart from the main feature.

[ChandlerBing]

In the Goldfinger special edition, Oddjob will be shown to be even more mean than he originally was so when Bond electrocutes him, it's more of a self defense thing as opposed to something a cold blooded killer would do.

[Sensualist]

Originally posted by Loomis
But the Moore era was one big blooper reel. If they included a "wanker's reel" ... on the OCTOPUSSY DVD it would be tricky to tell it apart from the main feature.

:cool: Priceless.

[Qwerty]

Well, to keep it short and simple, I would love to see all the deleted scenes from every Bond film. I'm not sure If I would like them to just be included on the DVD's as special features like the very few that are already there, or if there was an actual director's cut of each film. I think It would definitely fun to compare the director's cut version to the originals, see what scenes help or hinder the film. That sort of thing!

[Loomis]

Originally posted by Qwerty

I think It would definitely fun to compare the director's cut version to the originals, see what scenes help or hinder the film. That sort of thing!  

Exactly. There are 20 films in the series - why not play around with one or two of them?

[Qwerty]

Originally posted by Loomis


Exactly. There are 20 films in the series - why not play around with one or two of them?

I'll certainly agree with ya there! I've always wanted to see the rooftop chase in OHMSS and also see Lazenby's original, more dramatic response to the death of Tracy. There are so many scenes. Rosamund Pike and Pierce Brosnan in the 'hot tub' outside. And many more! It would be fun, alas, I wonder if it will ever be done. Still, no harm in hoping!

[Sensualist]

For Die Another Day, Lee wanted to have steamier sex scenes. That could be one modification.

Then there is that photo with James and Miranda in the hot springs with Gustav Graves looking on in the background. I'd like to see what THAT was all about.

In addition, I was keen to see the golfing bits in "Iceland". The official site even did a piece on it during production.

Lastly, a fifth unit was sent to Norway to get some film of the 'northern lights'.

What happened to these pieces of celluloid?

[Qwerty]

Originally posted by Sensualist


Then there is that photo with James and Miranda in the hot springs with Gustav Graves looking on in the background. I'd like to see what THAT was all about.

Actually, Sensualist, there is a thread floating around her with pictures from that deleted scene. I asked about those scenes a while ago, perhaps someone who knows the thread, I can't seem to find it under the searchs. Rosamund looking stunning, as usual.

[Loomis]

Originally posted by Qwerty

Lazenby's original, more dramatic response to the death of Tracy.  

There was a different version of that scene? What happened in it?

Apart from putting in scenes left on the cutting room floor, there are all manner of modifications that they could make to the films, such as using alternate takes and shots, making changes to the music, coming up with new title sequences (TWINE, in particular, cries out for a different title sequence, IMO - I find the psychedelic colours and giant oil drops quite nauseating).

[Sensualist]

Originally posted by Loomis


...coming up with new title sequences (TWINE, in particular, cries out for a different title sequence...).

Loomis, you being a nipponophile, will be interested to know that a Tokyo pop band did a song for TWINE that was to be a replacement for the Arnold/Garbage song for the cut for the Japanese market.

[Qwerty]

Originally posted by Loomis


There was a different version of that scene? What happened in it?

Oh, it was the original take of the scene where Lazenby summed up the tears, however, I believe they felt it to not be entirely in touch with the character of James Bond, so the more restrained performance was used. It's not a big scene or anything, but I would like to see it and compare it with the version in the film.

[Double-Oh-Zero]

The only real "Director's Cuts" I'm interested to see would be TWINE or DAD. Personally, I would have liked to see the speedboat chase trimmed down a little (I'm sure I'm in a minority group for that one), and the alternate Bond/Frost love scene. There could be an option on the DVD to play them as the Theatrical Version or Director's Cut, much like other films that are released as a Special Edition. The older films, especially the Connery ones, are fine the way they are, really.

On the subject of alternate takes and songs, I think that the end fight between Bond and Oddjob would be really cool from a first person perspective of the two, for the entire duration of the fight. Also, I'd like to hear how the original title song for DAD would play in the main credits. RedFlag's original song was called Beyond the Ice, and it's way better than Madonna's recording. MI6 had it at their site (along with other alternate songs for the films), but I think they got rid of the section. Come to think of it, I'd like to hear Madonna's song without the bad editing and choppy voice. There's a great song in there waiting to get out, I think.

As a side note, I'm kind of amused as to how the term "Director's Cut" is used. The film you see in the theatre is exactly that, the director's cut. Most of the time, scenes are cut or shortened because that's the way the director wanted it. One major exception is the Army of Darkness Boomstick Edition DVD, which has a totally different ending on the director's edition, and is what Sam Raimi and Bruce Campbell originally wanted. In a way, the original ending was more fitting for the film.