33 replies to this topic

[Blofeld's Cat]

I can

[PaulZ108]

[quote]Originally posted by Blofeld's Cat
[B]

The end credits had Gotell

[Blofeld's Cat]

[quote]Originally posted by PaulZ108
Not only that, they forgot that his name was mentioned as being "Alexis" in TSWLM. [/quote]


Errr, yes indeed.....
[quote]Originally posted by Blofeld's Cat
[B][All in all, an ignominious

[PaulZ108]

I knew that would happen. I thought I'd scanned through a couple of times to make sure it wasn't in there, but there it was the whole time.

[Triton]

Blofeld's Cat do you know why Walter Gotell was unavailable to play General Alexis Gogol in The Living Daylights? Was he ill or did he have a prior commitment that prevented him from appearing in the film?

I don't know how Gogol acquired the first name Anatol in The Living Daylights because M clearly addresses Gogol by his first name "Alexis" in The Spy Who Loved Me. To the best of my knowledge, this is also the only film in which M is addressed as "Miles" and Desmond Llewelyn's Q is addressed as "Major Boothroyd."

[BONDFINESSE 007]

i to was sad by gotell's ending/finale, i thought it was so weak, and he should have gotten better, he was one of the bright spots on the series, starting with from russia with love

[Blofeld's Cat]

Originally posted by PaulZ108
I knew that would happen.  I thought I'd scanned through a couple of times to make sure it wasn't in there, but there it was the whole time.

It's probably my fault, Paul. The structure of my post may not be the best.

Originally posted by Triton
Blofeld's Cat do you know why Walter Gotell was unavailable to play General Alexis Gogol in The Living Daylights? Was he ill or did he have a prior commitment that prevented him from appearing in the film?

I can't source out an actual reason at the moment Triton, but I think he was involved in a TV mini-series at the time. It would be nice to get a confirmation on the actual reasoning though.

[Triton]

Originally posted by Blofeld's Cat

I can't source out an actual reason at the moment Triton, but I think he was involved in a TV mini-series at the time. It would be nice to get a confirmation on the actual reasoning though.[/FONT] [/B]

According to the Internet Movie Database, Walter Gotell played Jonas Alexander in the television mini-series of Judith Kranz's I'll Take Manhattan in 1987. Perhaps a commitment to this project prevented him from participating more in The Living Daylights.

As for Pushkin versus Gogol, I don't know which is the greater of the evils, recasting a long-running character with another actor or changing the name of the character when the character's actor is not available. Would most audiences understand who General Gogol was if he had been portrayed by John Rhys-Davies? Or would most audiences just recognize the face of Walter Gotell and go "Oh he is Ms opposite number at the KGB"?

[Blofeld's Cat]

I guess that by putting Gogol in the movie at all tries to explain that as he's being shifted to another post, Pushkin has taken over his job, having the same "assistant" (?).

The other way to go, as you suggest Triton, is to make JR-D Gogol, and never bring back poor Walter Gotell again. That would not have been a choice that would've been seriously comtemplated, I think, unless Gotell had died beforehand.

In any case, it seems that the original intention was that Gotell was to play Gogol instead of JR-D as Pushkin. I'd say that's how the script was originally written.

[Triton]

Originally posted by Blofeld's Cat
In any case, it seems that the original intention was that Gotell was to play Gogol instead of JR-D as Pushkin. I'd say that's how the script was originally written.

The web site The Bond Film Imformant claims that KGB chief General Gogol was originally accused of being behind the Smiert Spionam plot to assassinate Western agents in an early draft of the screenplay. (Bond Film Informant: The Living Daylights) Unfortunately, web author Matthew Newton does not give his source for this information.

But for supporting evidence you really don't need to look any further than the names of the mistresses. General Alexis Gogol has a mistress named Rubelvitch (potrayed by Eva Rueber-Staier) , while General Leonid Pushkin has a mistress named Rubavich (portrayed by Virginia Hey).

[Brix Bond]

I don't know if anyone knows, but Gogol is addressed by his first name in TSWLM which is 'Alexis'.

Just so's you know. For the 4th time.

[Loomis]

[quote]Originally posted by Blofeld's Cat
[B]
If it was Gogol, instead of Pushkin, that was caught up in the

[brendan007]

I always thought that Walter Gotell had fallen ill prior to TLD filming, and the production could not get adequate insurance to secure him in the role. Although if he was filming other things i guess that information i heard was wrong.
What I find odd though is the total abadoment of characters in LTK that had been in the series for over ten years. Although characters like Gogol and the Minister of Defense wouldnt fit in LTK's story, i think its quite wierd that they are suddenly abadoned after appearing in every film since TSWLM. Even Moonraker found a quick scene to put them in, even though they werent really needed.

[Loomis]

Originally posted by brendan007

What I find odd though is the total abadoment of characters in LTK that had been in the series for over ten years. Although characters like Gogol and the Minister of Defense wouldnt fit in LTK's story, i think its quite wierd that they are suddenly abadoned after appearing in every film since TSWLM. Even Moonraker found a quick scene to put them in, even though they werent really needed.

Apparently, there were plans for Pushkin to make a very brief appearance in LICENCE TO KILL, but Rhys-Davies wasn't keen on the idea. I think it was Jaelle who provided that information once.

[rafterman]

Would have been great if he'd been prominent..it seems obvious Pushkin was to be him, but Pushkin was good....and I thought the first name was Alexie....

[DLibrasnow]

The part was of course written for Gogols character to play the role in the movie and of course as great a job I think Rhys Davies did in The Living Daylights I think it would have been better in Gotell could have played the role since we already had a connection woth him.
I actually miss the cadre of actors who played supporting roles in the majority of the Roger Moore movies and Dalton's The Living Daylights. Freddie Gray, Gogol etc....I always looked forward to seeing their scenes and they added some nice continuity.

[Jaelle]

Originally posted by Loomis
Apparently, there were plans for Pushkin to make a very brief appearance in LICENCE TO KILL, but Rhys-Davies wasn't keen on the idea. I think it was Jaelle who provided that information once.

Yes. I wish I could quote directly but I'm not home at the moment, so I don't have the Starlog issue that interviews Rhys Davies around the time of LTK. He is quoted as saying that he was approached to do a brief appearance in LTK but that he wasn't interested because it was so minimal and insignificant, and that he really couldn't spare the time because he was very busy with lots of better offers. This was in the early stages of drafting the LTK script, when Maibaum was still involved I believe.

I agree entirely with your other post, Loomis. To have Gogol in Pushkin's place would significantly change the entire tenor, tone and direction of the script; and not, imo, in a viable, positive way.

Also, there's another different point no one else has mentioned. The plan was to have Pushkin a recurring character, becoming a familiar nemesis/rival to Dalton's Bond in the way Gogol had been to Moore's Bond. The reason they hired a younger actor to play this kind of recurring character was the same reason they hired a younger actress to play Moneypenny: Dalton's younger age. Gogol and Moore fit well with each other, but I can't see Gogol and Dalton's Bond being a terribly good or interesting fit. The chemistry between Rhys Davies and Dalton, and their similar age, worked very well for the set-up of their planned relationship for future films.

I too liked Gogol and Gotell very much -- I wish they had made more time for his character, given at least one substantial scene, perhaps with Pushkin. That would've been very interesting to see. But to have Gogol in Pushkin's place simply would not have worked well, script-wise.

BTW, I disagree that having the head of the British Secret Service at the concert at the end of the film, "escorting" just an "ingenue", is ill-conceived. TLD serves to show the growing thaw in the Cold War, and the end of the film was written with this in mind. Kara is not simply just an "ingenue" -- she's a defector, former girlfriend of a Soviet traitor (I'm sure some in the Soviet bureaucracy still suspect her), just returned from a rather dangerous and classified mission with one of the UK's top agents. No, she's no professional agent but do you really think that in the real world someone in her position--esp. being a recent defector who's given the very privileged status of going back and forth between East and West at her own leisure--the head of the CIA, e.g., wouldn't be along just to attend her first concert, knowing that the former head of the KGB, Gogol, is going to be there as well? I don't think M is there to personally "escort" Kara -- I'm sure there are plenty of agents all over the concert hall to see that she's ok. I think M is just there to see her concert and also because he knows Gogol will be there as well. Perhaps it's just M's way of showing Gogol that Kara is well protected and that he expects Gogol to take seriously his promise to allow her freedom of movement.

BTW, just a couple of years after LTK's release, Dalton and Gotell worked together in an episode of TALES FROM THE CRYPT called "Werewolf Concerto" in which Dalton plays a werewolf-hunter and shoots Gotell's character (a Nazi) in the head.

[Turn]

Originally posted by Jaelle


I too liked Gogol and Gotell very much -- I wish they had made more time for his character, given at least one substantial scene, perhaps with Pushkin.  That would've been very interesting to see.  But to have Gogol in Pushkin's place simply would not have worked well, script-wise.

I agree. It would have been nice for it to have been Gogol to have pulled the trigger on Whitaker's guard at the end. Then again, they were trying to make him a cuddlier version of Gogol.

[Blofeld's Cat]

Originally posted by Loomis
I disagree. I think they were right to use Pushkin and not Gogol. Based on his appearances in previous films, viewers would have known from the get-go that Gogol couldn't possibly be a villain; but there is no initial reason to disbelieve Koskov's claim that Pushkin is "sick, like Stalin". The suspense comes from the fact that the character is new to the series and has yet to show his true colours.

I agree that by having a brand new character made for a better storyline, but I'm not naive to suggest that if Gotell was available for the whole of the principal shooting that the likes of the "sick like Stalin" angle would not have been in the original script. I'm sure there was quite a bit of cosmetic surgery done for the final shooting script to cater to Pushkin.

My thinking as to what may have been in the original script was that the "smiert spionam" operation was not run by Beria but actually by Gogol in the bad old chilly days of the Cold War 50's, and that someone is trying to frame him for it now (1987), much like what Triton quoted from The Bond Film Informant site.

[Blofeld's Cat]

Originally posted by Jaelle
I too liked Gogol and Gotell very much -- I wish they had made more time for his character, given at least one substantial scene, perhaps with Pushkin.  That would've been very interesting to see.  But to have Gogol in Pushkin's place simply would not have worked well, script-wise.

Apart from what I've just posted above a meeting between Gogol and Pushkin was a missed oportunity and would've helped explain better that Pushkin took over Gogol's job, hence having the same assistant (spelling mistake notwithstanding). Boy, was she a or what?

[DLibrasnow]

Originally posted by Blofeld's Cat

Apart from what I've just posted above a meeting between Gogol and Pushkin was a missed oportunity and would've helped explain better that Pushkin took over Gogol's job, hence having the same assistant (spelling mistake notwithstanding). Boy, was she a or what?

Maybe, or maybe not but she sure was a hottie!!

[Jaelle]

Originally posted by DLibrasnow
Maybe, or maybe not but she sure was a hottie!!  

I don't think she was a at all. Look at how genuinely upset she is about Pushkin being dead. She obviously cared a great deal for him. I also like the way Hey shows her absolute terror at Bond in the hotel room in Tangier. I feel sorry for her - Bond is so totally ruthless and frightening, I identify with her terror in that whole scene. She didn't come across like a mindless bimbo to me.

[Loomis]

Originally posted by DLibrasnow

Maybe, or maybe not but she sure was a hottie!!    

As a hardcore Bond geek who's seen all the films way more times than he'd be prepared to admit to even here, I've always been amused by the popular misconception that that scene in THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS marked the first time that bare breasts were seen in the series.

[Tarl_Cabot]

I think Gogol was lucky to be in the film at at all. Pushkin was a more interesting character and the plot was too intricate to add more players. It was nice to see him in the film, a Dalton Bond, but not dissapointing he had a minor role role...

scene in THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS marked the first time that bare breasts were seen in the series." Loomis

Ya know, that actress who played Pushkin's mistress was the archery girl from 'The Road Warrior'?

[Blofeld's Cat]

Originally posted by Jaelle
I don't think she was a at all.  Look at how genuinely upset she is about Pushkin being dead.  She obviously cared a great deal for him.  I also like the way Hey shows her absolute terror at Bond in the hotel room in Tangier.  I feel sorry for her - Bond is so totally ruthless and frightening, I identify with her terror in that whole scene.  She didn't come across like a mindless bimbo to me.

I agree with you on all counts Jaelle, but I was only referring to the fact that she was Gogols "bed warmer" and now she appears to be his replacement's "bed warmer" too.

And as Tarl mentioned, Aussie Virginia Hey can kick-A.

[DLibrasnow]

Originally posted by Blofeld's Cat



And as Tarl mentioned, Aussie Virginia Hey can kick-A.

Amen to that....she was the IMO the best looking Bond girl of the Timothy Dalton era

[Jaelle]

Originally posted by Blofeld's Cat
[FONT=century gothic]I agree with you on all counts Jaelle, but I was only referring to the fact that she was Gogols "bed warmer" and now she appears to be his replacement's "bed warmer" too.

Oh I see, sorry about misunderstanding you. BTW, I only know Virginia Hey from FARSCAPE. In fact, it was only very recently that I realized that the actress who played Pushkin's mistress was the same one in the first couple of seasons of FARSCAPE.

[DLibrasnow]

What else has Hey been in.....I'd like to know for purely trivia reasons !!

What do you mean you don't believe me??!!

[Triton]

Sorry Loomis and Jaelle, I totally disagree with you on this subject. The audience doesn't know General Leonid Pushkin from Adam. The scenes of issuing the termination warrant and Bond's brutal treatment of the KGB spymaster would have had much more emotional impact had it been Walter Gotell playing General Gogol. We had seen Walter Gotell playing General Aleksei, or however it's spelled, Gogol in five previous films, and I think that fans of the series and audiences would have gasped: "My god, M has just ordered Bond to kill Gogol!" Bond's skepticism and objection to the termination warrant would have made much more sense if it had been Gogol. M is also obviously upset that he must issue the termination warrant to Bond.

Also keep in mind that although Gogol gave Bond the Order of Lenin in A View to a Kill, he was still the master of the KGB and presumably gave Sergei Barsov and his team the order to kill Bond in The Spy Who Loved Me.

There's no history established yet with the General Leonid Pushkin character and right out of the gate James Bond is ordered to assassinate him.

Jaelle, I don't know why you think that it was necessary for the producers to introduce a younger KGB spy master who was roughly the same age as James Bond. KGB chiefs should not go into the field and do the job of agents, for the most part they should stay at their offices in Moscow. Also the masters of Lubyanka, like Yuri Andropov, were old men.
If they wanted a nemesis or a foil for Bond, they should have introduced a new KGB agent. If the producers were concerned about Walter Gotell's age, they always could have announced Gogol's retirement at the end of The Living Daylightsl and introduced General Leonid Pushkin as the new chief. But Walter's unavailability forced the screenwriters to rewrite the screenplay.

I don't have much to add concerning the scene with Kara Milovy at the end. A totally absurd premise becomes even worse with the arrival of Mujahadin deputy commander Kamrin Shah who was delayed at the airport. Why did the screenwriters feel that the gang needed to be reunited at the end of the picture. It's illogical and preposterous.

[DLibrasnow]

Originally posted by Triton
Sorry Loomis and Jaelle, I totally disagree with you on this subject.  The audience doesn't know General Leonid Pushkin from Adam. The scenes of issuing the termination warrant and Bond's brutal treatment of the KGB spymaster would have had much more emotional impact had it been Walter Gotell playing General Gogol. We had seen Walter Gotell playing General Aleksei, or however it's spelled, Gogol in five previous films, and I think that fans of the series and audiences would have gasped: "My god, M has just ordered Bond to kill Gogol!" Bond's skepticism and objection to the termination warrant would have made much more sense if it had been Gogol. M is also obviously upset that he must issue the termination warrant to Bond.

Also keep in mind that although Gogol gave Bond the Order of Lenin in A View to a Kill, he was still the master of the KGB and presumably gave Sergei Barsov and his team the order to kill Bond in The Spy Who Loved Me.

There's no history established yet with the General Leonid Pushkin character and right out of the gate James Bond is ordered to assassinate him.

Agreed Triton, there would have been much more audience sympathy and M and Bond's reaction would have made more sense if Gogol had played the part, but its clear that Gotell's health was prohibitive of such a move.