16 replies to this topic

[SeanValen00V]

I believe Dalton is more respected after Brosnan's films, all due respect to Pierce who I think can do a better Bond film, EON has sacificed character and story for visuals in his films more, people are beginning to realise just what Dalton did, and Quentin Tarantino's praise of Dalton I think is the best example of someone famous picking out Dalton.


http://www.mi6.co.uk...d=906&t=&s=news

. Henry Cabot Beck, who interviewed Tarantino for a recent New York Daily News piece, revealed these extra pieces on the Bond newsgroup:

"I actually thought Timothy Dalton did a good job - he`s what I always thought I wanted in James Bond, but in the end it wasn`t quite my vision of the character."


"I will say this, though - if I did a James Bond movie, no second unit directors. Everything would be shot by me."



Timothy Dalton's tenture as Bond was all about expectations we had of Bond, Roger's films were a long time ago now, Dalton was ahead of these times, but now the times have reflected Daltons work better, and the mega action budgets sacrificing character as in Pierce's Bond films, which are decent, have shown the perfect balance of character/plot and action the dalton films got right.

And Tarantino's quote means I'm not the only one right in thinking like this.

[SeanValen00V]

http://www.ianflemin...ent/000098.html

Also check this link in a recent interview with John Glen in how popular LTK is becoming, the quote I picked out:

"As one of the hosts pointed out, Glen's last Bond film 'Licence to Kill' (1989) is rapidly gaining something of a cult status among Bond fan circles. The audience showed their evident appreciation of Glen's work with a tremendous round of applause."

Dalton's impact is bigger then before in my opinion, and I backed it up with two good links to articles.

[Loomis]

Originally posted by SeanValen00V

"I actually thought Timothy Dalton did a good job - he`s what I always thought I wanted in James Bond, but in the end it wasn`t quite my vision of the character."

Well, it could read as though Tarantino is actually damning Dalton with faint praise ("he's what I always thought I wanted ... but in the end it wasn't quite my vision of the character").

I don't think he's trying to slate Dalton, though (and Tarantino is certainly known for speaking his mind on things he dislikes, such as Merchant-Ivory films and Kurosawa), but he's hardly giving him a ringing endorsement either. I reckon he's trying to be generous, saying that while Dalton wasn't his idea of the perfect Bond he, Tarantino, appreciates Dalton's efforts.

However, I agree that Dalton is much more respected now than when he was playing Bond; and that LICENCE TO KILL has attained a sort of cult status.

[Brix Bond]

I think he was the victim of poor...no...God awful scripting. All the plots were so non-existant:

Diamonds and Drugs...
...Stinger missiles to shoot down...a plane.

Poor villains as well...I mean...if we have to have a thread asking who the main villain was in TLD, you know it's not that great. Drug smugglers. Oooh! Fancy. Megalomaniacs, psychopaths, egotists...drug dealers. Hmm...boring!

The Bond women were also terrible. Flat, unimaginative, and I know he 80s weren't that great for fashion but can you not do *something* a bit more exciting with your hair???

Timothy Dalton does own one of my favourite 007 moments of all time and it's the "Watch the birdy, you bastard." quote. I think that was brilliant.

Poor Tim. And George too. We miss George. I even have fridge magnet of him.

[Jaelle]

Originally posted by Brix_Bond_007
I think he was the victim of poor...no...God awful scripting. All the plots were so non-existant:
Diamonds and Drugs...
...Stinger missiles to shoot down...a plane.
Poor villains as well...I mean...if we have to have a thread asking who the main villain was in TLD, you know it's not that great.

Couldn't disagree more, of course. The fact that you HAVE to ask "who's the main villain" means *precisely* that it's a more complex, ambiguous, adult, interesting script. Heaven forbid we have a Bond film without clear answers and that veers slightly away from the tried and true formula! TLD definitely has its problems, esp. toward the last third of the script. And the whole Leiter sequence really has no useful purpose, tho I've always liked it because it shows Tim's Bond obviously enjoying flirting with the two CIA girls. But here's a Bond film where he's not out to save the world but involved in a real cold war espionage mission.

LTK definitely has its scripting problems and is inferior to TLD but (unlike the wimpy, cowardly DAD) has a strong, central, basic theme that it holds onto for most of the film, while offering one of the series' best examples of portraying Bond and the main villain as mirror images of each other.

Poor scripting? After the travesties of TND, TWINE and DAD--written as if they came out of high school English assignments--weak scripts like LTK, YOLT, AVTAK, LALD and MR look like genius work. I have former students writing plays professionally right now and taking screenwriting classes who could do better.

Anyway, I saw that quote by Tarantino. And I agree with Loomis' point, it's kind of an ambiguous sentiment that Tarantino is expressing. I *do* think it's a compliment to Tim's efforts, tho. I just wonder how he could possibly want to do a Bond film with Pierce. I just can't see Pierce in a Tarantino film.

[Qwerty]

I want to put The Living Daylights in my top 5 favorite Bond films, but's it's because of the many script problems that do not allow it. There is a very good film in there, very good, but the villains and oddball script hinder it. Dalton was fine as Bond and I think he did okay in TLD, but when you don't have an excellent villain for Bond to fight against, then the damage shows up on the character of Bond too. The script constantly put sharp drops and turns in the formula of this film, and that is why some people tend to call it good instead of great. Perhaps if the script was handled a little better, and the villains a LOT better, the film would rise much higher in praise. However, that won't happen, and it's kind of a shame, because there really IS a great film under it all.

[Loomis]

Originally posted by Jaelle

And I agree with Loomis' point, it's kind of an ambiguous sentiment that Tarantino is expressing.  I *do* think it's a compliment to Tim's efforts, tho.  

See, this is it: when one says "I actually thought....", one is usually about to make a surprising statement in favour of something generally regarded as bad. (Example: "I actually thought POLICE ACADEMY 3: BACK IN TRAINING was enjoyable.") By saying "I actually thought Timothy Dalton did a good job", Tarantino acknowledges from the get-go that Dalton is not commonly seen as a hugely successful Bond, and he goes on to express what is undeniably qualified approval (if one can call it approval at all; in cold print, the following sentence could easily read as condemnation): "he's what I always thought I wanted in James Bond, but in the end it wasn't quite my vision of the character."

Tarantino is trying to be kind and positive, but I think it would be misleading to claim, based on his comments, that he has high praise for Dalton's portrayal of Bond.

Originally posted by Jaelle

I just wonder how he could possibly want to do a Bond film with Pierce.  I just can't see Pierce in a Tarantino film.  

I can picture Brosnan in a Tarantino film much more easily than I can picture Dalton in one. Why? Well, Tarantino seems to have a liking for what I'd call "plastic", or B-movie, actors: Robert Forster, David Carradine and so on. People who never quite made it. Dalton seems much too much of a "quality" actor for Tarantino's taste.

That said, I wouldn't have thought Brosnan suitable Bond material for Tarantino. Maybe someone like Gary Oldman or Tim Roth (but better-looking), someone less "mainstream". I guess if Tarantino had said that he wanted to make a Bond film with Clive Owen I wouldn't have batted an eyelid.

[Jaelle]

Originally posted by Loomis
I can picture Brosnan in a Tarantino film much more easily than I can picture Dalton in one. Why? Well, Tarantino seems to have a liking for what I'd call "plastic", or B-movie, actors: Robert Forster, David Carradine and so on. People who never quite made it. Dalton seems much too much of a "quality" actor for Tarantino's taste.
That said, I wouldn't have thought Brosnan suitable Bond material for Tarantino. Maybe someone like Gary Oldman or Tim Roth (but better-looking), someone less "mainstream". I guess if Tarantino had said that he wanted to make a Bond film with Clive Owen I wouldn't have batted an eyelid.

Hm, clearly you understand Tarantino better than I do. I hadn't thought of his taste in actors in quite that way. Interesting. Still, I'd love to see him work with Owen. A the moment Owen is filming a high-profile film, CLOSER, with one of Hollywood's most prestigious directors, Mike Nichols. Unfortunately he's co-starring with Julia Roberts -- yes, that means his star is rising very much, she's A-list after all, but I can't bear the idea of watching him opposite her. I want him opposite someone who can ACT and has screen presence. I saw the play on Broadway with Natasha Richardson, Rupert Graves, Ciaran Hinds and Anna Friel. I'll be fascinated to see how they adapt Marber's play. The film also stars Jude Law. So Owen is working with directors like Coppola, Nichols and Altman (as well as Martin Campbell, and he's finished the Bruckheimer movie on King Arthur). He's quite busy and in demand, apparently.

[Loomis]

Originally posted by Jaelle

Hm, clearly you understand Tarantino better than I do.  I hadn't thought of his taste in actors in quite that way.  

I wasn't being flippant (not that you were accusing me of flippancy). Dalton really doesn't strike me as Tarantino's sort of actor. Similarly, I can't imagine Tarantino ever wanting to work with the likes of Emma Thompson and Kenneth Branagh.

In much the same way as The Sex Pistols and other punks sneered at the pompous "dinosaurs" of "quality" rock, Tarantino has never bothered to hide his disdain for "classy" films and filmmakers. I believe he led a chant against Merchant-Ivory when he gave a speech at London's National Film Theatre a few years ago; and I was watching an interview with him the other day in which he talked of his love of Japanese cinema but dismissed Kurosawa and films like SWORD OF DOOM as "highbrow crap". There's also the scene in TRUE ROMANCE in which Clarence praises "movies" (as opposed to "films") that have "balls" (RIO BRAVO, MAD MAX and others) and condemns "coffee table" filmmaking.

Call him the Captain of Kitsch, the Pope of Trash, or whatever you want, but Tarantino loves to champion low-grade fare. A longburied B-movie here, a washed-up TV actor there.... I can picture him being a huge fan of "Remington Steele" (and owning a collection of "Remington Steele" lunchboxes) and considering NOMADS and THE LAWNMOWER MAN near-masterpieces. I believe Tarantino is a great admirer of THE LONG GOOD FRIDAY, and would therefore be aware of Brosnan's brief role in it. Dalton, on the other hand.... well, I reckon Tarantino might see him as just too darned "establishment", with little cult appeal. Well, not his sort of cult appeal, anyway.

[Jaelle]

Originally posted by Loomis
Call him the Captain of Kitsch, the Pope of Trash, or whatever you want, but Tarantino loves to champion low-grade fare. A longburied B-movie here, a washed-up TV actor there.... I can picture him being a huge fan of "Remington Steele" (and owning a collection of "Remington Steele" lunchboxes) and considering NOMADS and THE LAWNMOWER MAN near-masterpieces. I believe Tarantino is a great admirer of THE LONG GOOD FRIDAY, and would therefore be aware of Brosnan's brief role in it. Dalton, on the other hand.... well, I reckon Tarantino might see him as just too darned "establishment", with little cult appeal. Well, not his sort of cult appeal, anyway.

Hm... I'm not sure I agree with the way you're categorizing Dalton, tho. I'm not sure I'd put put Dalton alongside Emma Thompson and Branagh, for example.

Look at some of the actors in his films.... Harvey Keitel, Tim Roth, Steve Buscemi, Sam Jackson, Robert DeNiro, Michael Madsen...these are all very much in the American tradition of method acting. (I especially admire the cast he put together for RESERVOIR DOGS.) I greatly admire Keitel, Roth and Buscemi for example. Especially Keitel and Roth. They're serious actors who come from the tradition of "inhabiting" their characters in the less-is-more/intense method that Dalton does. These are actors whom Dalton himself prefers. Dalton's generation of actors in the UK rejected the classical/representational style of the Gielguds and Oliviers. He and his contemporary, Anthony Hopkins, both preferred American actors and they both preferred to live in the US.

Sure, Dalton has that classical background and his early films are all those historicals but he's also known for doing years of TV kitsch and low-budget indies. He sort of straddles both worlds. Far too many journalists stress his classical background yet if you look at stuff like Lie Down With Lions, The Informant, Made Men (an anarchic American gangster film right up Tarantino's alley, with Tim playing a corrupt, sexy, rotten sheriff who shoots his young sexy girlfriend in the face while holding her tight and feeling her up), you forget entirely about all that stuff.

In fact, if Tarantino likes failed actors like Pam Grier and Robert Forster, you could argue that Dalton's right up his alley.

[Loomis]

Originally posted by Jaelle

Dalton's generation of actors in the UK rejected the classical/representational style of the Gielguds and Oliviers.

But I wonder whether that would be Tarantino's perception of Dalton. Without a reasonable knowledge of his work, Tarantino might dismiss Dalton out of hand as an "upmarket, theatrical, Shakespeare-quoting limey faggot" or something like that.

Or he might not. After all, it's hardly for me to say how Tarantino looks at things. Still, I'm making guesses based on having read and watched numerous interviews with Tarantino, in which he tends to go into his likes and dislikes in some depth.

Originally posted by Jaelle

he's also known for doing years of TV kitsch and low-budget indies.  He sort of straddles both worlds. ... In fact, if Tarantino likes failed actors like Pam Grier and Robert Forster, you could argue that Dalton's right up his alley.  

I guess if Dalton had always done the same sort of TV kitsch and low-budget indie work he's doing now, he'd be Tarantino's cup of tea, no question.

I think nostalgia - particularly for American TV shows and exploitation movies - plays a huge part in Tarantino's casting choices. He seems on a mission to give employment to people he liked as a kid: Robert Forster, Pam Grier, Sid Haig, John Travolta, etc. Post-Bond, Dalton seems to be carving out a second career in the lower depths of the boob tube, but he's gotten into that game too late to dazzle the now-grown-up (arguably) geeky boy from Knoxsville, Tennessee.

[Jaelle]

Originally posted by Loomis
But I wonder whether that would be Tarantino's perception of Dalton. Without a reasonable knowledge of his work, Tarantino might dismiss Dalton out of hand as an "upmarket, theatrical, Shakespeare-quoting limey faggot" or something like that.

I guess if Dalton had always done the same sort of TV kitsch and low-budget indie work he's doing now, he'd be Tarantino's cup of tea, no question.  

I think nostalgia - particularly for American TV shows and exploitation movies - plays a huge part in Tarantino's casting choices. He seems on a mission to give employment to people he liked as a kid: Robert Forster, Pam Grier, Sid Haig, John Travolta, etc. Post-Bond, Dalton seems to be carving out a second career in the lower depths of the boob tube, but he's gotten into that game too late to dazzle the now-grown-up (arguably) geeky boy from Knoxsville, Tennessee.

You're right, it all depends on Tarantino's perception of Dalton. And Dalton certainly doesn't fit in with Tarantino's childhood TV and movie favorites. Tho I have to say, Loomie, I still have a hard time imagining Tarantino liking REMINGTON STEELE. I figure he'd go for KOJAK or COLUMBO.

Actually, most of Dalton's kitschy TV career was *pre-Bond*, not post, when he was just interested in financing his stage work with money from all those international miniseries. But maybe Tarantino didn't watch any of those cheesy miniseries from the 80s.

Post-Bond he's done a mix of several top-rated and mediocre indies, 2 potboiler US miniseries, 3 American TV movies (a historical romance, a romantic comedy and a children's movie), 5 commercial Hollywood films, 1 UK action/adventure TV movie, 1 UK TV crime mystery, a couple of stage stints in LA and some PBS program hosting and voiceovers. And now he's finally back on the legitimate stage.

BTW, Loomie, you may be pleased to know that *JUST BECAUSE OF YOU* I went out and rented RESERVOIR DOGS, JACKIE BROWN and PULP FICTION. I wanted to re-watch RD and PF, and finally see JB for the first time. All your posts recently have made me curious about looking more carefully at Tarantino. Haven't seen gotten the time to watch JB and PF yet, tho I watched RD for the second time last night. After finishing all 3, if I get a chance this week, I may start a new thread on the subject of violence, Tarantino, and Bond.

[Loomis]

Originally posted by Jaelle

BTW, Loomie, you may be pleased to know that *JUST BECAUSE OF YOU* I went out and rented RESERVOIR DOGS, JACKIE BROWN and PULP FICTION.  I wanted to re-watch RD and PF, and finally see JB for the first time.  All your posts recently have made me curious about looking more carefully at Tarantino.  Haven't seen gotten the time to watch JB and PF yet, tho I watched RD for the second time last night.  After finishing all 3, if I get a chance this week, I may start a new thread on the subject of violence, Tarantino, and Bond.  

Cool, I look forward to reading it.

RESERVOIR DOGS, PULP FICTION and JACKIE BROWN are all very good films, but I'd say that only PULP FICTION is worthy of classic status. In many ways, though, JACKIE BROWN and even RESERVOIR DOGS are much more "mature" works.

Of the movies that Tarantino wrote or was involved in writing, I'd recommend TRUE ROMANCE, but I'd suggest giving NATURAL BORN KILLERS (one of the worst films ever made, IMO) as wide a berth as possible. I found FROM DUSK TILL DAWN too tiresome to sit through, and have absolutely no interest in seeing FOUR ROOMS.

This may seem a funny comment, but if you really want to appreciate Tarantino and know where he's coming from, you should read his scripts. Even more than his best films, the screenplay format shows the guy at his most inventive.

[4 Ur Eyez Only]

Dalton to me is like Patrick Stewart..

If you got rid of Patrick Stewart after the first year or 2 of the Next Generation .. he would have looked like a bust! People would say what the hell was that.. why was he trying to do something new & different.. he was sooo stuffy!

BUT..

They didn't get rid of Stewart and he got a chance to learn,make mistakes, grow.. and mostly be the BEST part of the star trek series.

Timothy would have done the samething!..

He would have been (with a good director) the best 007

I wish QT would make a 007 film and use Dalton!

[Onyx2626]

Dalton's Bond has an understated quality, that I think QT well...doesn't. I read only a few of Fleming's books, but Dalton walked right out of the pages. :eek: I always suspected that Bond was a man who seldom smiled. Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Fleming say he had a "cruel face"?

i.e) In LTK when he tells the other agent to "Piss off!" I thought that was different. And in TLD when he tells Kara, "You play beautifully." I love Sean but I could never see his Bond lowering his guard like that. (except in NSNA) where he was kinder and gentler.

But in regards to QT, do we really want to see 007 cut off a man's ear?

[Jaelle]

Originally posted by Onyx2626
i.e) In LTK when he tells the other agent to "Piss off!" I thought that was different.  And in TLD when he tells Kara, "You play beautifully." I love Sean but I could never see his Bond lowering his guard like that.  (except in NSNA) where he was kinder and gentler.

I love that moment when he tells Kara "it was exquisite" and when he walks into the hotel room in Tangier and stops to just listen to her play. BTW, I think Sean was capable of telling a musician like Kara that she played beautifully.

But in regards to QT, do we really want to see 007 cut off a man's ear? [/B]

Well if you saw JACKIE BROWN, you'd know that he is certainly capable of doing a film without such slasher scenes like that. In fact, JB is remarkably poignant, romantic and actually (dare I say it?) sweet!:eek:

[Onyx2626]

I will have to see JACKIE BROWN, until then point taken, not stirred.:cool:

I still think Sean's Bond was rather guarded. Except in TB on the beach w/ Domino.