19 replies to this topic

[Loomis]

I've read a lot of rave reviews, but I thought I'd ask my fellow CBners - whose tastes I've come to know and whose opinions I've come to value - whether THE LORD OF THE RINGS: THE TWO TOWERS is worth seeing before splashing out on the DVD.

Is it indeed as good as they say, or a load of overrated rubbish?

How does it compare to the first film? I saw THE FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING at the cinema and quite enjoyed it.

Also, what's everyone's take on the multiple DVD re-issues of the LOTR films? Is a super-deluxe version of THE TWO TOWERS just around the corner, and should I hold out for it?

[JackChase007]

Well, if you enjoyed FELLOWSHIP, you'd probably enjoy TWO TOWERS. I'm not particularly fond of the LOTR movies, but I can appreciate them, I suppose. My friends are huge fans, and they love both of them, saying that the second one is better than the first. But I'd watch it first, before buying it, unless you're like I am, and spontaneously buy DVDs.

[zencat]

I loved it -- much more than the first movie (which, I have to admit, I really didn't like that much).

[Jaelle]

Ah, Loomis asks about a subject dear to my heart.

Let me tell you how much I love the LOTR movies. I was in North Africa when The Two Towers came out. I made special arrangements to fly to London on my own money just to see it. I didn't do that with DAD.

I greatly enjoyed the books when I read them back in high school and own all the animated versions from the 70s.

I can't remember the last time that I volunatarily went multiple times to a movie theater to see the same movie. Oh wait---it was back in Rio to see TLD. That's how long ago.

When FOTR came out, I went to see it 10 times. That sort of behavior is *very* unusual for me.

As for T2T, I loved it, but not as much as FOTR. I went back 6 times only. It's an absolutely gorgeous film, I think, with music that's even better than the first one. T2T just suffers from the fact that it has 3 separate storylines whereas the first had the luxury of focusing on the adventures of the unbroken Fellowship.

As for the dvds, I'm quite annoyed by the multiple editions. I hate this blatant rip-off attempt to get my money several times over for the same film. But I'm a sucker for these movies so they got me. I like those extra features. I bought the recently released T2T dvd because it has certain features that won't (so I hear) be on the special edition coming out in November. If I'm wrong about that and they will in fact be in the November special edition, then I bought it for nothing.

I'm mainly waiting for the November special edition of T2T because it'll have extra footage inserted into the film that had been edited out. The extra footage in the special edition of FOTR is INCREDIBLE, it doesn't make the film drag at all. It's just wonderful!

So that's the main reason I'll buy the November release dvd edition.

One thing I feel strongly about is that these films really suffer from being seen on the small screen. You really shouldn't see any of these films for the first time on the small screen. The magnificent New Zealand scenery, the beautiful sets are best appreciated on a wide screen.

I have been absolutely amazed at my response to these films. Sure, I love the subject matter. But it's more than that. I have long lamented the death of the grand Hollywood epic that not only had fabulous, colorful sets and sfx but also a powerful story with real substance and characters who grabbed you, who made you weep and laugh and stayed in your head. I am so sick of coming out of movies these days and forgetting what I've just seen 5 minutes later. With FOTR and T2T, I can't forget the music, I can't forget the characters (esp. that luscious gentleman Viggo Mortenson), I can't forget the scenery, etc.

So, Loomis -- I think you should get *a* T2T dvd, it just depends on which one you want. The one that's out now has the version of the film released late last year. The one that will be coming out in November will have extra scenes that were edited from that general release. The November edition will also be more expensive.

[Tarl_Cabot]

TTT is great. Buy it.

[Loomis]

JackChase007, zencat, Jaelle and Tarl_Cabot, your recommendations are definitely good enough for me, and are just the sort of raves from people whose views I respect I'd hoped I'd read.

Originally posted by Jaelle

As for the dvds, I'm quite annoyed by the multiple editions. I hate this blatant rip-off attempt to get my money several times over for the same film.

Seems to be a trend (apparently there will be different DVD editions of THE MATRIX RELOADED separated by mere months, and there will be more than two different editions of T3, leading eventually to a so-called Ultimate Edition), although from what I gather the people behind LOTR have been cheekier than anyone else. I saw some kind of internet joke ad recently spoofing the multiple DVD versions of the LOTR films.

Originally posted by Jaelle

One thing I feel strongly about is that these films really suffer from being seen on the small screen. You really shouldn't see any of these films for the first time on the small screen. The magnificent New Zealand scenery, the beautiful sets are best appreciated on a wide screen.

Yes, we're in LAWRENCE OF ARABIA territory. I was blown away by the visuals of THE FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING on the big screen, but I rented the DVD several months ago and switched it off after only about 20 minutes, because I felt it looked terrible - and I have an excellent DVD player and large widescreen television. But I missed the theatrical release of THE TWO TOWERS, so I guess my choice right now is to watch it on DVD or not at all.

But based on all your recommendations, I think I'll pick up the DVD(s).

[Jaelle]

Originally posted by Tarl_Cabot
TTT is great. Buy it.

I send in this long-winded answer and Tarl says it all in his usual concise manner.

[gkgyver]

Jaelle, it's just like you spoke from the bottom of my own heart.
Personally, I love both movies more than any other movie (yes, Bond fans, ANY movie);
BUT I try to answer to some of the criticism I've read on amazon.

First of all, and most obviously, TTT must not be looked at as a stand-alone movie. It has no beginning and, until this December, no end and I think it will become fully appreciated after The Return Of The King.
Secondly, some say it lacks the atmosphere of the first film. I guess that's because it lacks some of the "magical" environments of film one. It's definitely darker than The Fellowship Of The Ring.

Then, I don't know if you've read the trilogy already. If you didn't, then I don't want to destroy the movie with further details, but if you know the book, let me tell you that there are far more additions and far deeper changes than there were in Fellowship.
Additionally, some say it has too much action in it. My response to this is: it is WAR in Middle-Earth, and if there's war, you get war on the screen.
My only complaint is that Gimli's jokes are really out of place.

A few, maybe unnecessary, words on sound, effects etc. In one word: spectacular. Smeagol is awesome, the CGI is incredibly well done, the models prove that they can look more realistic than CGI and the blending of the two is seamless. The sound is ear-shattering and Howard Shore has outdone himself. His TTT score is more complex and beautiful than the one of Fellowship without losing the "score" aspect.
And the Bonus stuff is exactly what one expected from the regular DVD release.

Finally, let me tell you this: in mid-November, the 4-disc set with 45 minutes of additional footage comes out. If you aren't crazy for LOTR like me and are willed to spend 30 $ more for 6 hours of documentations and 45 minutes additional scenes, there's really, absolutely no reason for buying the regular edition two months before the Extended Edition.


Amen

[Tarl_Cabot]

[Tarl_Cabot]

Special editions are a waste of money unless LOTR is like heroine to you.

[Loomis]

Originally posted by gkgyver

Finally, let me tell you this: in mid-November, the 4-disc set with 45 minutes of additional footage comes out. If you aren't crazy for LOTR like me and are willed to spend 30 $ more for 6 hours of documentations and 45 minutes additional scenes, there's really, absolutely no reason for buying the regular edition two months before the Extended Edition.

Will the four-disc Extended Edition feature the original theatrical cut as well as a lengthier version of the film?

[Red Grant]

Interesting topic for a Bond forum...but here goes......I think TTT and FOTR are two of the best movies is the past decade and a hundred times better than anything attempted by the Bond franchise in decades! Controversial stuff but merely my own opinion. These two movies are made with a passion and attention to detail that show the high regard the film makers have for their source material. If you love great storytelling, an involving plot, characters you care about and an overall grand scale not attempted by Hollywood (New Zealand whatever!!) very often. The films are crammed with CGI that doesn't detract from the story and have created one of the most fascinating characters in Gollum that is so superbly done that you BELIEVE it is a real person. With regard to the multiple choice of DVD version (well two!) ...it's not like you are forced to buy either and they aren't being devious by releasing two versions it is all up front and well advertised. The two versions don't duplicate material in any way. The only bad thing is if you are a true fan and collector you will have to buy both versions to get everything. Now if the Bond series could be this reverential to it's source material we'd have the best movies ever made but alas it will never be.......

[Jaelle]

Originally posted by Loomis
Will the four-disc Extended Edition feature the original theatrical cut as well as a lengthier version of the film?

Ah you see, this is an important point.

A lot of people complained about the FOTR extended dvd version precisely because there's no way of separating out the extra footage from the original theatrical cut.

I don't know if they'll change that with the extended edition for TTT. I haven't read anything with that information.

And I agree entirely with gkgyver's argument re criticisms about TTT. I do love the film very much (except, as he said, the Gimli jokes). One of the big reasons I preferred FOTR was Gandalf (I'm mad about Ian McKellen). And the Gandalf in TTT is a bit different, he's evolved into a different sort of wizard.

I do know the books very well and think that Jackson's choices have been extraordinarily good. I've had this conversation with many people: contrasting the film adaptations of the Harry Potter novels v. the film adaptations of the LOTR novels. Chris Columbus' adaptations suffer from a very mechanical, plodding, absolute fealty to the Potter novels with little personality all their own. What Jackson manages to do is honor the novels but put his own unique cinematic stamp on them.

[gkgyver]

I don't think at all that the SEEs of LOTR are useless.
In fact, I think these Exended DVDs are the only ones I know that deserve the term "Special Edition". You don't have to be a fan to find them attractive. I haven't seen a DVD yet that features 6 hours of Making-Of and 45 minutes of added scenes. And it's definitely not the case that this footage fell on the floor of the cutting room because they're rubbish.
They provide more infos on the characters and make the film closer to the book (and God knows TTT needs just that Jaelle knows what I'm talking about; maybe I just say "Huorns"?).
My opinion: this disc set offers more than enough to justify its existance.

[Loomis]

Originally posted by Jaelle

A lot of people complained about the FOTR extended dvd version precisely because there's no way of separating out the extra footage from the original theatrical cut.

I don't know if they'll change that with the extended edition for TTT. I haven't read anything with that information.

I don't mind buying films I like twice if I'm going to get a director's cut on the second DVD edition. I'm happy to buy, say, the LETHAL WEAPONs in both their original theatrical edits and the subsequent video-only extended versions; what I'm not so keen on doing is buying new DVD editions that contain the exact same version of the film as always and have nothing new to offer apart from documentaries, which most of time are about nothing more than self-promotion and backslapping. I didn't buy the recent UK re-release of one of my favourite horror films, THE TEXAS CHAIN SAW MASSACRE, since I didn't fancy the idea of shelling out cash for new packaging and just one new "making-of".

But, hey, if the two separate editions of THE TWO TOWERS will contain two separate versions of the film, I'm in.

In a way I'm glad that the people behind the Bond films don't take us to the cleaners with separate DVD editions. In another way, of course, I'm disappointed that they don't and that there won't be a super-deluxe extended director's cut of DIE ANOTHER DAY to collect.

[gkgyver]

Then go for it!
The film on the extended cut is not really a different film. Totally new scenes will be added and many scenes/dialogues will be extended.
And there's no way you can leave these out. Trust me. Would be too complicated. Remember, most of the theatrical stuff has to be redone completely, like cutting, dialogues and sound. Heck, even parts of the score were rewritten, re-orchestrated, re-conducted and re-recorded.
Would be far too complex to leave this new stuff out.

But, hey, why am I writing here? Watch the Extended-DVD Preview on the regular release.

[TGO]

Originally posted by Jaelle


Ah you see, this is an important point.

A lot of people complained about the FOTR extended dvd version precisely because there's no way of separating out the extra footage from the original theatrical cut.

This is not directed at you Jaelle, just in general.

Now WHY would a DVD producer want to sacrifice space for audio and video quality to provide something that has been avaiable several months earlier? You have the release of the theatrical cut on DVD. You are warned that in a couple of months that you will be getting an extended version with entirely different extras, hell, you even get a PREVIEW of the next set. I don't see this as blood-sucking. Most studios dont even warn you when they are coming out with an new and improved DVD, a la Columbia. :mad:

Just had to get that off my chest.

[Mourning Becomes Electra]

Seamless branching could give you both versions on the same disks w/o loss of quality and considering how many disks are in the EE they have more than enough room. It's just gouging and the do it b/c they know there are people who can't wait or can't not have both versions and they'll buy both. Good business yes, but still blood sucking.

I didn't like TTT as much as Fellowship because they changed too many things from the book and yeah I thought Helms Deep and the war scenes went on far too long, to the exclusion of many other things they they cut and character changes they made to accomodate these overlong battle scenes with added filthy cringing peasants. I also thought Fellowship improved with the added 45 minutes (except where Viggo sings.... oy!) and hopefully the extended version of TTT will also improve that film for me. But then I am a frothing at the mouth Tolkein geek and every change Jackson makes to the books makes me want to toss something at the screen and yell for an orc to lob off his head, and it doesn't help that I don't much care for Viggo as Aragorn (Blech, take a bath and stop with the whining nasal mumbling already!), so take all my crticism with a grain of salt. All that said they're still epic films that should be seen and I own Fellowship on vhs and both DVD versions and I'll buy the EE version of TTT when it comes out.

[jwheels]

What I am waiting for is all three movies to be branched together to makeing a 6+ hour movie, like they did with the 3 Godfathers back in the early 90's

[Loomis]

Thanks for the recommendations, everyone. I now own both THE FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING and THE TWO TOWERS on DVD, and find them very enjoyable indeed. Not sure I've fallen in love with them - in fact, I'm sure I haven't - but even though I will probably never be a fervent LOTR fan I certainly don't regret buying them.