17 replies to this topic

[Jim]

Very minor and unimportant this

But whilst whiling away life in front of the sublime Goldfinger last night, spotted an odd thing.

Scene when Sean Connery is James Bond is in the bathroom of the aeroplane and is messing up the view of the young lady whose name appears to change every time anyone uses it - look carefully at his "gentleman's personal grooming kit". We see the front of it and just above the latch - is that a Masonic symbol? Blimmin' well looks like it.

Quite what it's doing there if it is, is another matter.

[Pussfeller]

Is it a crossing compass and L-shaped straightedge with an upper-case "G" in the center? If so, then it is undoubtedly the symbol of the Freemasons or a related organization. It was, I understand, very common at that time for British gentlemen to join the masons, mainly as a social club, sort of like the Elks or something. It's conceivable that Bond would be in such a club.

Haven't you ever seen the Monty Python skit?

Has anyone ever come across evidence in one of the novels that Bond may be a mason?

[Jim]

Originally posted by Pussfeller
Is it a crossing compass and L-shaped straightedge with an upper-case "G" in the center?  

It looks a bit like that, but it's quite indistinct - the "crossing compass" element is the most readily identifiable part.

[Tanger]

Has anyone noticed that the clock she peeks through somehow ends up on the wall at Shrublands in TB? It even still has the peep hole at the bottom.

[Loomis]

Originally posted by Pussfeller

Has anyone ever come across evidence in one of the novels that Bond may be a mason?  

No evidence in Fleming or Amis, or in any of the Gardners or Bensons I've read. I doubt that Bond is a mason. Given his job, wouldn't being a mason potentially create enormous conflict of interest? (Not that that stops policemen and judges being masons, of course.) But factor in the potential for grave security risks, and I guess it's safe to say that 007 isn't "on the square".

That said, I believe MI6 has in real life had its fair share of masons, so.... who knows? But it's unlikely. Isn't Bond supposed to be the ultimate lone wolf, with few friends and emotional attachments? The idea of him being a mason seems as preposterous as the idea of, I don't know, Felix Leiter getting kicks by dressing up in women's underwear - possible, but enormously unlikely given the way the characters are portrayed in the books and films.

[PrinceKamalKhan]

Speaking of Sean Connery films involving masons, I recommend that you all watch a Connery non-Bond film called The Man Who Would Be King. The character he portrays in that film is indeed a mason and in fact, his masonic membership is a key factor in that film's plot.

[General Koskov]

Speaking of the Freemasons, did you know that the reason American money has the pyramid-with-the-eye on it is to symbolise the Freemasons? Many of America's fathers of confederation (or whatever they're called) were Freemasons.

As for Bond...maybe he killed a Freemason and took his nice shaving kit?

[Pussfeller]

It would be interesting to have a Bond plot based around the Freemasons... perhaps he must join the group in order to catch a villain. Of course, there could be legal problems if the group is portrayed as sinister or dangerous.

[Blox]

Jim: look carefully at his "gentleman's personal grooming kit". We see the front of it and just above the latch - is that a Masonic symbol?

...I think that's a maker's mark. It doesn't appear to fully resemble a Masonic symbol.

[Jim]

Having looked at it again, Bloxie, you're probably right for the following two reasons:-

1) the compass element appears to be missing and there's no "eye"
2) I'm not prepared to get into an argument with yer good self as these tend to drag on.

[Blofeld's Cat]

I thought masons didn't bring attention to themselves, hence the secret hand shake. Would masons have their insiginia showing on any of their belongings?

The curisity is killing this cat so I'll have a look at the scene in question anyway.

For those at all interested in what's being discussed....

[stromberg]

Originally posted by Pussfeller
It would be interesting to have a Bond plot based around the Freemasons... perhaps he must join the group in order to catch a villain. Of course, there could be legal problems if the group is portrayed as sinister or dangerous.

That one already exists, but it is not a Bond story, it's from the Sherlock Holmes novel "The Valley of Fear". Too much similarities.

But it would be interesting to know if the Masons ever took an legal or whatever action against that novel or Doyle himself, as the group (or at least parts of it) is indeed described as sinister, dangerous and criminal. Anyone ever heard something about that? (Sherlockians, come out wherever you are!)

[Jim]

Unless you know any different, I thought the name of the organisation was "The Scowrers" - was it translated into something akin to the word for "Freemasons" in German?

Fascinating if it was...

That said, Conan Doyle was never that backward in coming forward in insulting organisations - the Mormons get a pretty big hammering in "A Study in Scarlet" and the Ku Klux Klan get it in the neck in "The Five Orange Pips" - but then both of those organisations deserve it anyway.

[stromberg]

In the translation I've read (which has BTW the reputation of being the best available), the organisation is mostly called "The Scowrers" as well. The translator gives lots of explanations about the Freemasons and their organisation in his notes. Especially in that scene with McMurdo on the train at the beginning of part two, it becomes quite clear that this is just the local people's name for the Freemasons.

I have yet to read TVOF in English (BTW, can anyone recommend a good edition?), but in the German text, I read the word "Freimaurer" (German word for Freemasons, the meaning is exactly the same) quite often.

[Blox]

Jim: I'm not prepared to get into an argument with yer good self as these tend to drag on.

...As the content of this thread is fairly innocuous and benign, I think there's little risk of your being verbally flayed alive.

Blox

[Jim]

Originally posted by stromberg
In the translation I've read (which has BTW the reputation of being the best available), the organisation is mostly called "The Scowrers" as well. The translator gives lots of explanations about the Freemasons and their organisation in his notes. Especially in that scene with McMurdo on the train at the beginning of part two, it becomes quite clear that this is just the local people's name for the Freemasons.  

I have yet to read TVOF in English (BTW, can anyone recommend a good edition?), but in the German text, I read the word "Freimaurer" (German word for Freemasons, the meaning is exactly the same) quite often.

This is interesting - haven't got the text to hand but I think Conan Doyle, if he does mention freemasonry, does his best (or at least, something) to distinguish the Masons from the Scowrers because the latter is essentially a hugely corrupt death squad and the former...I'll stop there for fear of having my gizzard slit and my tongue hung from Blackfriars Bridge or whatever it is they (allegedly) do.

It may have been the translation that has added in further detail, especially if, as you say, it is the translator's notes which amplify the comparison.

I'm not sure I can point you to a good edition of TVoF because I've only read it a couple of times and I think it's really amongst the weakest stories - patently only a Sherlock Holmes story at the very start and the very end. Perhaps the publisher thought it couldn't sell unless there was Holmes involved. Was probably right because I doubt I would have read it otherwise.

This said, the BBC radio adaptation (adaptations I cannot speak highly enough of) is pretty good - adds in some extra Holmes and a fun twist at the end; OK, such fiddling about may be extemporising, but dammit - the story needs it.

[stromberg]

Originally posted by Jim

... It may have been the translation that has added in further detail, especially if, as you say, it is the translator's notes which amplify the comparison. ...

It's not only the translator's notes, it comes from the text as well. I doubt that the translator (a Mr. Haefs, who is a talented writer himself) added anything, and the publisher, Haffmans from Switzerland are known to care for such details. This edition is meant to be a historical edition, as close to the original as possible. No lenghty descriptions left out in order not to bore young people, nothing simplified, nothing added to spice it up etc.

I wish I could say that about the new (or any other) German Fleming editions...

Oh, back on that one: didn't mean just an edition of TVOF, I'd prefer a complete Holmes edition, if you can recommend one.

[Nixon007]

Well, of course, this is just the sort of blinkered philistine pig-ignorance I've come to expect from you non-creative garbage. You sit there on your loathsome spotty behinds squeezing blackheads, not caring a tinker's cuss for the struggling artist. You excrement! You whining hypocritical toadies with your colour TV sets and your Tony Jacklin golf clubs and your bleeding masonic secret handshakes! You wouldn't let me join, would you, you blackballing bastards?! Well I wouldn't become a Freemason now if you went down on your lousy stinking knees and begged me!