19 replies to this topic

[James Boldman]

I just started reading this novel the other day and I am really enjoying it, I am up to chapter 5. I was wondering what your thoughts on this novel were?

[zencat]

I one of the better Gardner books. Some great action and a few standout moments (don't want to spoil anything for you). Great climax too.

[James Boldman]

Originally posted by zencat
I (don't want to spoil anything for you)

Thanks I am looking forward to finishing it in the next couple of days.

[bond jamesh bon]

I just bought it too and I am looking forward to reading it also after I finish Dr. No

[Cesari]

I think it is a good Garner book. I don't like Bond being chief of "00" section and MI6 becoming "Micro Globe One" with a comitee directing it.
I don't like Bond living for more than one year with the same girl (Flicka).
That is too far from our usual Bond.
But I like the plot, the characters, and specially the action scenes. The motorbike chase is cool, and th climax with parahawks is great.

[James Boldman]

Originally posted by bond jamesh bon
I just bought it too and I am looking forward to reading it also after I finish Dr. No

Just a suggestion but it might be a wise idea to read Never Send Flower
before you read Seafire because of the introduction of Flicka von Grusse etc.

[James Boldman]

I'm up to CHAPTER SEVEN or EIGHT now just after Bond has the suprise at Cambridge from Tarn.

[Jriv71]

I thought there was a Seafire thread a while back, but I can't find it. Anyway, just finished reading it for the first time since '94. I think, much better than Gardner's "recent" work (pre-Seafire.) This one had my interest throughout. I guess it's not his fault, though, that he's starting to repeat his villains' motives. Yet another guy who wants to be the next Hitler. It was a well-told story, however.

One thing, though: shame about Flicka, I really thought she was the one (he says sarcastically, half-hoping that there isn't a female character in Gardner's final attempt, which he intends to read next.) I don't remember Cold Fall that well, I'm assuming Flicka doesn't come back from the dead or anything. That's the worst part about the aging Gardner, Bond's relationships with women. Every time now, he says that he'd never (EVER) felt this way about a woman. I also hate Gardner's habit of constantly evoking the names of Tracy and Vesper and Kissy Suzuki, et al. I mean, should that even be allowed? Anyway...

[Jim]

I've always thought it was a slightly curious book; a lot of build up about the neo-Nazis and then the denouement takes a complete left turn and really has nothing to do with all of that. Seems a bit curious that if one cleans away an oilslick one somehow achieves political power. The two aspects don't gel very well - oil and water indeed. Perhaps that's the subtle joke in the construction of the book. Perhaps a little too subtle (i.e. non-existant...)

I think it exemplifies what others have noticed about some - not all - of the Gardners; no real working through to an ending.

Some interesting characters introduced at the end, as far as I recall - the practically savage woman who tortures thingy - but oddly a lot of that is kept "offscreen"; slightly out-of-focus. Even odder considering that some of the book is extremely violent.

It's OK but I'd be cautious to describe it as anything other than middling Gardner. As a typical example of the Gardner Bond - clumsy sex, globetrotting, twist and countertwist and a stripping away of some of the myth (Two Zeros? Bedford Square?) - it's probably the most "conventional". It's not unenjoyable, and it's a pleasant enough read and considerably more appealing than some of the update novels (Brokenclaw for example) but I'm not too sure what it really achieves.

[Jriv71]

Kinda what I thought. "Not unenjoyable." Though, I hardly think that that was the intent, as he was sitting at his typewriter coming up with this one.
Gardner: "Man, I hope this one's not unenjoyable!"
Probably not.
The oilslick/Nazi connection was a bit odd, I just figured he had no intention of actually cleaning up the mess, this was just something Gardner threw in to let us know that Tarn was really a bad guy. (As if the neo-nazi business wasn't warning enough.) As part of foiling the oilslick mess, Bond does away with Tarn, and everybody's happy.
(Actually,the truth is, I tried not to think about it too much; I've resigned myself, at this point, to the fact that he's not going to be as cohesive as he once was.)

One thing I left out: I hated that Micro-Globe One/Two Zeroes nonsense. Who gives you the right to change the name of the Double-O's to Two Zeroes? Now, was M working for Bond in this one, or did I miss something? Or was he working for the nurse? Maybe that's what made him ill. To paraphrase Casey Stengel, if Ian Fleming were alive today, he'd be spinning in his grave.

[Jim]

Originally posted by Jriv71
Kinda what I thought.  "Not unenjoyable."  Though, I hardly think that that was the intent, as he was sitting at his typewriter coming up with this one.
Gardner:  "Man, I hope this one's not unenjoyable!"
Probably not.

Tremendous

As to the MicroGlobe One thing - ugh indeed. I seem to remember some rant about plastic chairs as well that seemed to be invested with huge significance; most curious.

Makes me think about where James Bond is at the end of the Gardner series in comparison to where he was at the point of page one of Licence Renewed (and yes, Ok, Cold/Fall to come but can't recall much happening in that)

1. Still in a SAAB. My mother drives a SAAB.
2. "Married" and "widowed", again
3. Seemingly head of some sort of secret service
4. Doublecrossed several thousand times
5. Disney-lover
6. Dead at least once
7. Spends most of his time in hotel rooms
8. Falls in love very easily
9. Tends to be incapable of keeping women alive
10. Sings
11. M tells him nothing for inexplicable reasons
12. Friend to the stars - or at least, real politicians (ok, so "real politicians" is a bit of an oxymoron)
13. Bit of a crochety old botty burp.

It's all very odd and I'm not too sure it's the same character that started off in 1981. In fact, I'm pretty sure it isn't

[Jriv71]

Which is frightening, when you consider that this was definitely not the same character that started off in 1953. Or even the 1964 version.

As I go forward, I was thrilled to (re)discover that Cold Fall is only 228 pages. You see, I didn't remember even that much about it. I also don't know if it is evident why the U.S. version was not simply entitled 'Cold' like the others, maybe that's in there, as well. With only 228 pages, he'd better write fast. He's got alot of 'splainin' to do. Makes me wonder, why only 228 pages? Did he drop dead during it? I'll get back to you...

(It's amazing that I don't remember any of this. I guess Gardner's work is as well as 'not unenjoyable', quite 'not unforgettable.')

[Jriv71]

Oh, yeah...and his dialogue between Bond and the women still sucks.

[James Boldman]

I'm now up to Chapter 13 (157 pages) and Bond and Flicka have just found the body of Trish. So far it's a great novel although the Tarn Nazi stuff is a little disturbing.

[Dunph]

I took the liberty of merging the threads, and I also deleted James Boldman's post about the location of the previously 'other' thread.

[James Boldman]

Well I finished the book about 3 and half weeks ago to 4 weeks ago and the book kept me interested all the way through, definately one of Gardner's best.

[Qwerty]

I agree, with the some of his dreadful works like Cold Fall and The Man From Barbarossa, SeaFire ranks as one of his best. Flicka is a captivating female lead, (Usually NOT the case for Gardner novels), and Tarn is also a fine villain. Their is an excellent building of intensity for this novel, and the ending is 100% tremendous! The very first time I read it, I was thrilled with it, that Cold Fall was in my hands as soon as I finished. SeaFire is excellent.

[1q2w3e4r]

Tried punching through this one last night to no avail.

The story's not so bad, it's implausable that SIS could possibly be that incompetent to not know anything about Tarn's dealings when he seems to have the drop on them.

The Microglobe One story arc should never have been put forth, and the Two Zero section really sees a ordinary civil servant basically filing through papers and meeting with a general assembly. Bond's part in all of this could be done by any average civil servant with a university degree.

The character of Bond itself really is a joke. It shows that Gardner either, A didn't really know or care all that much about Fleming's Bond, or B chose to throw everything out about Bond and remould the character.

I didn't entirely understand Jim's point that Bond in Seafire isn't the same guy as in Licence Renewed (who isn't the same as Fleming's OO7).

The Bond in Seafire really is an upper class, or trying to be snob. The dialogue between him and Flicka in particular reads nothing like Fleming's novels. It'd be fine if it was a novel, with any lead character. It isn't however what I believe a Bond novel should be, or aim to be. He's certianlly got Fleming's character throughout his 12 novels wrong.

I also had trouble with the action sequences, for a former Royal Marine Gardner's work lacks suspence, and there are no real insights into Bond's thoughts or opinions throughout the entire novel.

Benson was defiantly better than Gardner's best (For Special Services) right off the bat.

[Jim]

Originally posted by 1q2w3e4r


I didn't entirely understand Jim's point that Bond in Seafire isn't the same guy as in Licence Renewed (who isn't the same as Fleming's OO7).

The Bond in Seafire really is an upper class, or trying to be snob.  The dialogue between him and Flicka in particular reads nothing like Fleming's novels.  

Reading it back, I'm not sure I understand my point either - badly drafted, sorry.

I think what I was trying to convey was that he started in 1981 with fairly major changes to the character, then changed it even further so by 1996 it was all horribly bent out of shape. By then, he'd not only jettisoned great swathes of Fleming's Bond, but his own. Lord alone knows what Gardner's Bond was meant to be by the end.

Giving Mr Benson his due, at least he left James Bond be.

[James Boldman]

Originally posted by 1q2w3e4r
Tried punching through this one last night to no avail.

The Microglobe One story arc should never have been put forth

I certainly agree with that it was probably Gardner's worst idea, in the entire series.
In the end Gardner drifted further and further away from the average Bond formular. But that is not to say I don't like his novels in fact in the last 3 weeks I've read two of his novels which I enjoyed both (Seafire and Role Of Honour).
Gardner should have kept MI6 as it was and I am quite certain that there's not one Bond fan out there who would welcome the idea of the MicroGlobe One Committee.