103 replies to this topic

[Jim]

Isn't that how you pronounce shower?

(Public school boy, me)

Yes, bring on the sexually repressed SM-obsessed unutterably posh colossal perverts to write the Bond books. And if they can't write, bring them on anyway.

[clinkeroo]

Originally posted by marktmurphy
Didn't John Gardner write some Holmes books?

The Return of Moriarty and The Revenge of Moriarty, and they are both brilliant. I always wonder if writers have a prime, and they all come to it at different ages. Maybe if Gardner had come to Bond back in the early 70's right after his Boysie Oakes novels, things would have been different.
But that's probably best suited for another thread.

[zencat]

Originally posted by Jim
Yes, bring on the sexually repressed SM-obsessed unutterably posh colossal perverts to write the Bond books. And if they can't write, bring them on anyway.

I'm still waiting to be asked.

Originally posted by Jim
The Holmes/Bond thing again - there have been a number of Holmes "continuation" novels or short stories and yet I'm unaware of any set in (say) 1935 or in space. Generally seem to be in period and period makes character makes concept....

Actually, there have been several time traveling or space based sci-fi Holmes continuation novels (check out this baby below)...and there have been many Holmes films set in the '20s, 30s and 40s. Heck, the most famous Holmes, Basil Rathbone, only did 2 films set in Victorian London, the rest were all Holmes smashes the Nazis during WWII. Not that any of this is relevant (and I agree Holmes belongs in the Victorian era) but Holmes has drifted wildly in time, space, and character

[zencat]

Because I'm in the mood, here's another great Holmes character mix and match pastiche. I love these things just for the cover art.

[marktmurphy]

I'd love to see more of these- or any rare Holmes art actually. Bit of a sucker for it. Got any more?

[marktmurphy]

I wonder if you've got the Doctor Who novel where the Doctor meets Sherlock? Its even got a Basil on the cover! I'll pop a scan up if you want.

[zencat]

I've got loads. Holmes vs. Dracula, Holmes vs. Jekyll & Hyde, Holmes vs Jack the Ripper again and again...one book where Holmes turns to BE Jack the Ripper!

I've always wanted to see a complete Holmes pastiche collection. There seem to be millions.

Let me go see if I can dig out another good one from my own modest collection.

Sorry to throw this thread so OT.

[Bryce (003)]

Wow! What a great thread. I started to jump in at several points, but ultimately was beat to the same point by others.

A rousing round of CBn Presents: Point/Counter point....and no one got called an "ignorant "....

Threads like this are what the forums are all about.

...JB meets LC in JP.....Hmmmm.

John, I "double-Dog dare you" to make that pitch to a studio. Always have to mention Angie somehwere.....

*Bryce picks back up Maxim and continues studying Monica Bellucci pictorial*

WHAT!?!

[clinkeroo]

Good God, Zencat, I have both of those in my collection. Not only do your first edition Flemings exceed mine, but you collect Holmes as well...
Damn, I'm afraid I might have to admit that yours is bigger than mine . How about Sherlock Holmes and the War of the Worlds? I have that around here some place.
Funny thing about East Wind and its fantasy take on Holmes, it always reminds me of Lin Carter's Horror Wears Blue and its characterization of Bond.
I would hate to see the Bond novels degress to the point that Holmes did. For every brilliant Holmes continuation I've read, there's twenty pieces of ca ca that had to be filtered first.

[zencat]

Originally posted by marktmurphy
I wonder if you've got the Doctor Who novel where the Doctor meets Sherlock? Its even got a Basil on the cover! I'll pop a scan up if you want.

Yes, I'd love to see that! I've never heard of this book.

This isn't a pastiche, but I love this cover art.

[zencat]

Here's a couple unique novelizations -- Sherlock Holmes meets Jack the Ripper as uncovered by

[Jim]

...really beginning to wish I hadn't mentioned this...

Fun, though

But there you go - had no idea this existed. Would anybody, outside the fans? Does anybody write James Bond these days? etc.

[zencat]

Originally posted by clinkeroo
How about Sherlock Holmes and the War of the Worlds?  I have that around here some place.

No way! That sounds wild.

How about this beauty? I forgot about this because it's part of my Houdini collection, not Holmes. There have been several Holmes meets Houdini...this is one of my fav covers.

(And don't worry, this will be my last. )

[zencat]

Getting back OT.

I think if IFP would have let Benson do a period Bond adventure we would have gotten a minor masterpiece. If there is a next book, I think it should be set back in time of Fleming. Others here have made that same point. I agree. 'Nuff said.

[Jriv71]

I wish I'd followed this thread from the beginning. Instead, I just read all (most) of it in one sitting, and my eyes hurt. And I'm not sure if my opinions will have anything to do with the original point of the thread but, here goes:

I'd never given any thought to "why" I like Bond (you know, because he's PC, or not, or is really a good guy, or a bad guy, or whatever...) (Again, probably has nothing to do with the point of the thread, just some thoughts that popped into my head while reading it.) I do know this...if they never published another Bond "continuation" novel, I'd be happy. Yet, if they do continue, I'd be on line the first day. (Or is it on-line.....) Anyway, does that make sense? It's not really an 'I could take-it-or-leave-it' attitude, because I feel strongly both ways. Can you feel strongly about ambivalence? Well, I do. That is to say, I'll be there with the proverbial 'bells on' if a new book comes out, but I'll live if it's all over.

(Note: I've never read Benson but recently began purchasing his novels, for future sequential reading, when I'm through re-reading Gardner.)

The reason for my confusion about the continuation novels is this: he's not Bond! As much as I enjoy (some of) what Gardner writes, I feel, as I'm reading, that he's messing with something sacred. It's not your character, leave it alone! He had no business giving Leiter a daughter, giving Blofeld a daughter, and giving Bond and M thoughts and feelings that Fleming did not, before him. I find his Bond tales entertaining, in many ways, in spite of his Bond character, not because of it. So, I'll do little reviews of Gardner's stuff, trying to be fair to his work, some of which I truly like, but the truth is, when I'm reading, I'm thinking...this is so wrong.....

Yet, I have no problem with a screenwriter putting words into Bond's mouth, so the confusion continues...why is that acceptable? Probably because the screenwriters have been changing Fleming's words dramatically since 1967, four years before I was born, decades before I cared. (Moonraker was my first Bond film and as far as I was concerned, upon reading the book, Fleming changed Roger Moore's words.) Also, Fleming laid the groundwork for what it is perceived that Bond would probably say or do, so on screen, that became acceptable. But a novel is also about a character's thoughts and feelings, and only one man can get inside James Bond's head, and it's not John Gardner or Raymond Benson.

But go ahead, I'll buy the new one.

[Loomis]

Originally posted by Jriv71

I do know this...if they never published another Bond "continuation" novel, I'd be happy.  Yet, if they do continue, I'd be on line the first day.  (Or is it on-line.....)  Anyway, does that make sense?  It's not really an 'I could take-it-or-leave-it' attitude, because I feel strongly both ways.  Can you feel strongly about ambivalence?  Well, I do.  That is to say, I'll be there with the proverbial 'bells on' if a new book comes out, but I'll live if it's all over.

The reason for my confusion about the continuation novels is this: he's not Bond!  As much as I enjoy (some of) what Gardner writes, I feel, as I'm reading, that he's messing with something sacred.  It's not your character, leave it alone!  He had no business giving Leiter a daughter, giving Blofeld a daughter, and giving Bond and M thoughts and feelings that Fleming did not, before him.  ... when I'm reading, I'm thinking...this is so wrong.....

Yet, I have no problem with a screenwriter putting words into Bond's mouth, so the confusion continues...why is that acceptable? ... But a novel is also about a character's thoughts and feelings, and only one man can get inside James Bond's head, and it's not John Gardner or Raymond Benson.

Agreed 100%. I feel exactly the same as you do, Jriv71. As a Bond fan, I love the continuation novels.... and at the same time, I don't. As you yourself put it, I feel strongly both ways. Screenwriters are working in a different medium to novelists, so they can't be accused of treading on Fleming's toes.

Excellent post.

[Mister Asterix]

Of course, we don’t really know what the IFP is planning. I’d bet that they are selling more books this year than any other year in recent history, so I doubt they are too worried. And they are keeping the future of the Literary Bond a secret. They have not said that they won’t have more novels. They have only said Raymond Benson won’t be writing any more. For all we know there is a writer already signed and the IFP is doing the smart thing and not announcing it until the sales of the new Fleming re-prints have run there course.

It would be smart for the IFP to handle it one of two ways. (If they are indeed planning on having more continuation novels.) The first way: introduce a new writer next year on the tails the Fleming books. The second way: wait five or so years until demand builds itself back up as it did before Gardner took over.

[Jim]

Originally posted by Jriv71
I wish I'd followed this thread from the beginning.  Instead, I just read all (most) of it in one sitting, and my eyes hurt.  And I'm not sure if my opinions will have anything to do with the original point of the thread but, here goes:

...(all of it)...

But go ahead, I'll buy the new one.

Exquisite. You have encapsulated what I have tried in a considerably more feeble way to express.

[Dr. Tynan]

seems to have gone kinda ugly

[Loomis]

What do you mean, Dr. Tynan? I don't follow you. What's "gone kinda ugly"? This thread? Don't see it myself.

[Dr. Tynan]

all the arguments.

[Loomis]

Arguments? I'd call them debates. Where would this site be without them? I suppose this thread might have seemed a little heated a while back (although I don't believe anyone was being obnoxious), but all the posts on this page have been perfectly civil. Jim and I have just been agreeing with Jriv71. I think this thread has been fascinating, and I really don't feel it's turned ugly.

[Dr. Tynan]

it just seemed like there was a lot of "personal anomisity."

[Dr. Tynan]

OK I'll be honest I was thinking of the animosity between Xen and Jim.

No offense to both

[Loomis]

Originally posted by Dr. Tynan

it just seemed like there was a lot of "personal anomisity."  

Speaking for my own posts, none was intended. I mean, I don't know anyone on this thread personally, so how can I bear them ill will? Reading El Jimborino's posts, I don't get the impression that he intends to upset anyone, either. But, hey, this is the internet, and sometimes posts can come across as being nasty, when the author had no such intention. Still, I've read a lot of threads, on this site and others, in which people have lost their tempers and made vicious attacks (which nearly always only serves to make them look stupid, of course), and I honestly don't feel that this is such a thread.

[Dr. Tynan]

just something i was thinking about not long ago. do we know eachother's personalities all "aspects." Does each of us know how each of us would behave in a certain situtions.

I had myself psychologically profiled over the net (did a questionnairre):eek: .

This guy said that to him (well he didn't answer them personally, I don't think) I came across as being;

Someone who likes confrontations and is likely to intimidate others to get what I want

That I view the "arts" with suspicion (whatever that means).

That I lack modesty.

That I go to pieces under pressure.

that's some

He said the best thing to do, if you want to know if it's true is ask others who know you if they agree.

So I mean my point is would you know me well enough to say whether any of that's true? some of it seems odd to me. I hate confrontations.

Can we judge eachother on the posts all of us have made to CBN

[Xenobia]

This thread has gotten way past me now...but just a few last thoughts:

But just to answer one gentleman's questions:

1) I have read quite a bit of Fleming. Just because I don't talk about here, doesn't mean I haven't done it.

2) I have not attended a Fleming conference yet, but I do know what goes at them (I've read materials from them, spoken to colleagues about it, etc.)

-- Xenobia

[Loomis]

Originally posted by Dr. Tynan

Can we judge eachother on the posts all of us have made to CBN  

No. People don't behave on bulletin boards as they do in real life, in face-to-face interaction. Some people come on sites like this to vent, or to play devil's advocate. Others write in a style very different to their normal manner of speaking or writing, to conform with the general style of the board. People who are so timid in the real world that they wouldn't say boo to a goose can appear outspoken and arrogant in cyberspace (where interaction is anonymous, and there are no consequences). People who are loud and brash in daily life can be polite on the net.

And why should we wish to judge each other, anyway? Except for members who know each other, we are all just pixels on a screen to each other, nothing more.

Still, why don't you provide a link to that questionnaire site, Dr. Tynan? Just for fun, CBners could take the test and post the results here.

[Loomis]

Originally posted by Xenobia

But just to answer one gentleman's questions:

1) I have read quite a bit of Fleming.  Just because I don't talk about here, doesn't mean I haven't done it.

Ah, I think that "gentleman" might have been me. Well, I didn't suggest you'd never read Fleming, Xen. All I wanted to know was how many Bond novels you'd read. *Loomis turns to the Smilies to show that no ill will was intended*

Originally posted by Xenobia

This thread has gotten way past me now...

I'm sorry you feel that way, because I enjoy reading your posts. Why not argue for what you believe in? It's a fascinating thread you've started here, Xen. Much to chew over.

[Blofeld's Cat]

I just wish that IFP would sell the literary rights and make a packet for themselves (which is all they are interested in), the new owners (after paying a packet for said rights) start publishing old and new Bond novels alike (which is all they'll be interested in), so the fans can spend a packet (which is always what they do) as a result of the renewed interest on the part of the new Bond publishers to keep their product "out there."

Everyone happy.