17 replies to this topic

[James Boldman]

I really enjoyed this novel like I have enjoyed all of Benson's novels. I thought Benson introduced the new M as well as he could've. And the storyline for The Facts Of Death is very clever. Benson introduces a bit more of Barbara Mawdsley character so that the readers can picture her a bit more. I also thought some of the gadgets were good in this novel.

What do you think?

Any more comments about this novel then please post them.

[Sick Sense]

Refresh my memory, I read this book 3 years ago and Can't remember it.

[zencat]

It's a great book. Benson got better and better as he went along.

[Tim007]

Just reading The Man With The Red Tattoo but I think I liked Never Dream Of Dying better. But hey, I'm on page 36

[James Boldman]

Originally posted by Sick Sense
Refresh my memory,   I read this book 3 years ago and Can't remember it.

Well basically M's lover (the British goodwill ambassador to the World)- Alfred Hutchinson is mudered, while Bond is on the tail of the Number killer.
The evil organisation in the novel call themselves the Decada.
Does that refresh your memory?
Oh by the way I am mostly going on memory because I haven't read the novel since about 3 years ago as well.

[MrDraco]

God damn i miss this book my very first, i'm gonna have to get a copy off ebay cos i refuse to read my other one,
I let an old girl friend i still wish to know that i don't know read it and her scents still on it, so it sits on the shelf giving it that 'ma'ma' smell...

[Jriv71]

I just finished it, and I thought, not as good as ZMT. Not bad though. I'm just not a fan of the whole evil-organization with the menacing sounding name-thing, once you get past SPECTRE. I'm also very nitpicky about titles, too. "Zero Minus Ten" made sense, "The Facts of Death" didn't. I know, it's just me.

I agree with the above who said that Benson did a fine job introducing the new M, making her human and so forth. But, leave Messervy out of it. M shouldn't be talking to M. Sorry. I'm just now getting over the whole 'new M' thing. Don't make the new M talk to the old M. It confuses me. I'm quite stupid. To me, that's like having Connery and Moore in the same film and calling each other Bond. Anyway, he did his best, and I just hope he doesn't continue to bring back M. (Messervy.)

By the way, did they have to have the Greek villain have a Yacht called 'The Poseiden'? Didn't see that coming a mile away. Well, it's all Greek to me.

Look, I think Judi Dench is a superb choice to be Bond's boss, but the way I understood it, in 1953 M was called M because Fleming called his mother 'M', so he named his M character Miles Messervy. (Two 'M's, you see.) I believe the screenwriters took too much poetic license calling Dench "M" since she clearly was not Messervy. (And, yes, I know about "C".)

This is why we will really never know about Robert Brown's M/Hargreaves thingy. There cannot be a definitive answer, since they never said, on screen, that this was a new guy, but they also never called his 'M' Hargreaves. (Not now, Dlibrasnow...)

Oh, yeah, I'm not sure how I felt about Kerim's son coming back. At first I thought it was cool, now I think it's stupid.....Actually, now it doesn't bother me again.

[Triton]

Jriv71 don't be too hard on the novel titles. It really was never Raymond Benson's decision to begin with. It is my understanding that the novel titles are chosen by a representative of the Ian Fleming estate at Glidrose, now Ian Fleming Publications. So I imagine this person is thinking: "How would Ian title this novel" or some other nonsense. Probably some attorney some place that checks to see if the title has been used for another novel or film.

I remember that Raymond Benson wanted the title No Tears for Hong Kong instead of Zero Minus Ten.

As for The Facts of Death, the title has nothing to do with the plot or the themes of the book, so I agree with you that its a lousy title. I think that Benson added the line of dialogue before the manuscript was sent to the printers so that the novel title would make sense to readers. Why not a title related to the Decada, the Number Killer, or something that is remotely related to Cyprus.

But in general, I really dislike the Glidrose imposed titles. High Time to Kill? Blecchh!!!

I understand from an interview with John Gardner that he wanted to use the title Blondes Prefer Gentlemen for one of his books. I'm very sorry that he could not use it, because it seems very much in the vein of Ian Fleming's titles: Live and Let Die, Diamonds Are Forever, From a View to a Kill where he took a familiar saying or advertisement slogana and adapted it slightly for his purpose.

[Triton]

PS--

I consider Bernard Lee the only actor to play the character Sir Miles Messevry. In The Spy Who Loved Me film, General Gogol says to M, "After you Miles" in the MI6 offices located in the Egyptian ruins.

I consider Robert Brown to be a replacement M, taking over for the late Bernard Lee, and believe his character to be a continuation of the Admiral Hargreaves character first introduced in The Spy Who Loved Me.

The way I see it, both men are ex-Royal Navy Admirals from the same era, so they will have the same taste in nautical oil paintings and room furnishings.

As for Judi Dench as M, I don't know what came first. The desire to have a female head of MI6 in the film series or to fire Robert Brown as part of the post-Timothy Dalton purge, along with John Glen and Caroline Bliss, and hire Judi Dench.

As far as the M designation goes for Ian Fleming's MI6, I believe that he would have never used the C designation. The "M" comes from Ian Fleming's mother who he called M is a nice story. But what if the M actually comes from the first name of Mansfield Cumming, like the real-life C designation comes from his last name? Unless I see a definitive quote written by Ian Fleming himself, I am very skeptical of the M is named for mother story. Until then, it is a nice tale spun by Ian Fleming's nieces and nephews so they can appear on television and has as much credibility to me as the story that Eon Productions is named for Everything or Nothing.

[Genrewriter]

I liked the book enough to do a fan script based on it. It works for me, but I have to say the Union Trilogy is better storytelling.

[General Koskov]

Originally posted by zencat
It's a great book. Benson got better and better as he went along.

...culminating in the best part of all: the end.

[Jriv71]

Originally posted by Triton

I consider Bernard Lee the only actor to play the character Sir Miles Messevry.  

I consider Robert Brown to be a replacement M, taking over for the late Bernard Lee, and believe his character to be a continuation of the Admiral Hargreaves character first introduced in The Spy Who Loved Me.

The "M" comes from Ian Fleming's mother who he called M is a nice story.  

I'm generalizing, but I think that most people who feel this way, hated Brown's potrayal, as did I. I didn't like Brown's M, but he's Messervy. I know, we've all beaten this to death, but without overthinking it too much, regardless of whether or not "M" was named for Fleming's mother, or not, doesn't really matter. Fleming wrote "M" as Messervy. (Presumably because of his initials.) Hargreaves in TSWLM was obviously not a Fleming creation, so the idea (to me) that "M" could be anyone but Messervy is wrong. (Again, my opinion.)

The terrific Judi Dench complicates it for me, because it says that you don't have to be Messervy to be "M", but at least she made references to her 'predecessor.' Brown never did. Obviously neither did Moore, Dalton or Brosnan when they took over their roles, because they're playing the same character. (Although Lazenby did.) If they don't tell you it's a different "M", it's not. It's not a different Bond, even though it's a different actor. The fact that Brown was Hargreaves a few years earlier is just coincidence in my mind.

There are no facts either way, to me the default is, Fleming never created a Hargreaves, and the relationship between Bond and "M" is one of familiarity. You don't keep changing M's, you change actors when one dies.

[Jriv71]

By the way, I have to check the credits on the film,when I get home but read the 'Plotline' section of this link.

http://www.geocities...n/4255/tnd.html

I'm not sure this is accurate, I don't believe they brought him back; this must be a mistake, but if there's any truth to this, and we've missed it all these years, that would say something. (They also used the word 'blaim' so take it at face value.)

[Cesari]

Originally posted by Jriv71
I'm also very nitpicky about titles, too.  "Zero Minus Ten" made sense, "The Facts of Death" didn't.  I know, it's just me.

"The facts of death" is not Raymond Benson title choice. It is Glidrose's.
The original Raymond choice was... "The woorld is not enough"!!
If Glidrose disliked it and refused EON found it was a good title for a movie, one year later.

[Jriv71]

Originally posted by Jriv71
By the way, I have to check the credits on the film,when I get home but read the 'Plotline' section of this link.

http://www.geocities...n/4255/tnd.html

I'm not sure this is accurate, I don't believe they brought him back; this must be a mistake, but if there's any truth to this, and we've missed it all these years, that would say something.  (They also used the word 'blaim' so take it at face value.)

Glad I checked. The info in the link is not accurate. (Man, I wish it was.)

[DLibrasnow]

[quote name='Jriv71' date='26 August 2003 - 10:22'][quote]Originally posted by Triton

I consider Bernard Lee the only actor to play the character Sir Miles Messevry.

[Qwerty]

Just reading The Man With The Red Tattoo but I think I liked Never Dream Of Dying better. But hey, I'm on page 36

The Man With The Red Tattoo was a dissapointment.

I love The Facts Of Death though, it seems exotic and fast-paced.

[mccartney007]

I know a lot of people pan THE FACTS OF DEATH, but it's always been on of my guilty pleasures. I think the locations alone did it for me as Greece has always fascinated me.