23 replies to this topic

[Dr Noah]

I just noticed something. Despite being the most successful '60's Bond at the box office, Thunderball is also the one Connery Bond movie that people forget about!

Dr No :- Down in the history books as the first Bond movie. The famous Andress scene.

FRWL :- Mentioned in various interviews as being one of the best Bond's, also one of the most "Bondian" titles.

Goldfinger :- THE Bond movie!

YOLTW :- The one with the Volcano set and the most parodied villian (Blofield)

Diamonds Are Forever :- Another "classic" title and a great song.

What has Thunderball got to compete with the above? Unlike the others it doesn't quite stick in the memory. There are a few good moments but it is a bit overlong and slow in places. Not to mention the continutity errors!

What does everyone think?

[kevrichardson]

It was the biggest Bond film ever ! It did not lose it place in Bond history until what "TSWLM" or God forbid "Moonraker" . "ThunderBall has a unique and trouble history in Bond . It was the cause of much heartache for Fleming . The effect are still, present today . Example the non-use of the character Blofeld/and SPECTRE . Continutity errors a side . It goes down in history of Bond as Connery's greatest Bond performance . Since in YOLT/DAF/NSNA he was a "SLEEP WALKER" for all three films. "ThunderBall" also has a near-great cast , Direction , Special Effect( second Bond to win a Academy Award for Visual effects), and Score by John Barry . Besides given the WORLD we live in today . It's the most realistic Bond of them all . We live in a WORLD were STOLEN Nuclear weapon could and may if fact have happen .

[Johnson Galore]

Is it that forgotten? I think it is the best of the big-budget Bonds. I prefer FRWL, but consider that to be low-budget. So TB is my #2. Beautiful photography, great score, great direction. Connery was never better- he's confident and funny. Largo is a superb villain. Claudine Auger- can't beat her. The scene where Bond dances with Fiona and he uses her to shield himself combined with the island music- PERFECTION. Maybe the title doesn't stand out as much for non-fans, but there are definitely others that are less remembered, namely many of the 80s films.

[Johnson Galore]

As far as Connery's "official" contributions go, I think Dr. No is more obscure. The title is odd and the film doesn't have the classic feel, mostly due to Monty Norman's score. I agree that Ursula Andress is well-remembered but I bet most non-fans couldn't tell you which film she was in.

[Dr Noah]

Has anyone noticed that "Thunderball" has got it's scenes a bit mixed up? I forget the exact details but I think it is after the "casino" scene, which is set at night, the implication (as far as I remember it) is that Bond is going to pay a visit to the Disco Volante later that night, as the yacht is going to leave soon. The scene cuts off just as Felix is about to speak. The next scene is set during the day, with Bond arriving at his hotel room coming from the beach, where he meets leiter for the first time!

Can anyone shed any light on this?

[Bryce (003)]

Obscure?!?

For all the above mentioned reasons, I have to disagree. Title wise, FRWL often gets mentioned or guessed as being some kind of 60's love story. However, we all know different;)

Obscure? No. The first Panavision Bond, Barry's score, Sir Sean VERY comfortable in the role, Underwater photography that rivaled anything seen at the time (the closest before TB had to be Disney's 20,000 Leagues) and SPECTRE when they were the biggest bad guys around. Largo, Domino, Fiona, the Jet-pack and "THE" man - Terence Young - doing what he loved and partially created. Bond with style and menace.

[Double-Oh-Zero]

It's not really memorable for plot aspects, but rather, as the Bond film which encouraged Bondmania around the world. The biggest Bond film of all, I suppose.

[kevrichardson]

Originally posted by Double-Oh-Zero
It's not really memorable for plot aspects, but rather, as the Bond film which encouraged Bondmania around the world. The biggest Bond film of all, I suppose.

That's not true it's one of the better delevoped Bond plots . great care when onto the script . www.mkkbb.org has a interesting series of articles that give the history of the delevopment of the "ThunderBall" screenplay and film .

[1q2w3e4r]

Originally posted by Dr Noah
Has anyone noticed that "Thunderball" has got it's scenes a bit mixed up?  I forget the exact details but I think it is after the "casino" scene, which is set at night, the implication (as far as I remember it) is that Bond is going to pay a visit to the Disco Volante later that night, as the yacht is going to leave soon. The scene cuts off just as Felix is about to speak. The next scene is set during the day, with Bond arriving at his hotel room coming from the beach, where he meets  leiter for the first time!

Can anyone shed any light on this?

Yep quite easily. Peter Hunt moved the scenes around. You'll notice Bond's also wearing the same clothes when he first meets Domino and when he gets his hotel key the next day.

[kevrichardson]

Originally posted by 1q2w3e4r

Yep quite easily.  Peter Hunt moved the scenes around.  You'll notice Bond's also wearing the same clothes when he first meets Domino and when he gets his hotel key the next day.

Peter Hunt help restore the narrative to the film after Ternace Young walked away from the production after filming was doing .

[Dr Noah]

So Peter Hunt was the hero of the hour? It's amazing how close to disaster Thunderball came.

Anyone know why Young walked out and why he often slags off the movie?

[kevrichardson]

Originally posted by Dr Noah
So Peter Hunt was the hero of the hour?  It's amazing how close to disaster Thunderball came.
Anyone know why Young walked out and why he often slags off the movie?

There are serveral interviews with him (Tereance Young) which state that he thought the direction of the franchise was wrong . With it's relience on Gadgetry , Techology . Plus he felt the underwater stuff slowed down the plot . Plus made the filming and overrall production difficult . I have read after the release he more or less disowned the film . It's too bad since it was the number#1 Bond film for a long time .

[Double-Oh-Zero]

Originally posted by kevrichardson
That's not true it's one of the better delevoped Bond plots . great care when onto the script . www.mkkbb.org has a interesting series of articles that give the history of the delevopment of the "ThunderBall" screenplay and film .

I'm not saying the actual plot is bad. In fact, it's so popular and effective it's been duplicated and altered for other action films after. It's also one of my favourite plots in the series. I just meant that it isn't memorable for little things in the story that some of the other films are. For example: Goldfinger had the Aston Martin DB5, You Only Live Twice had the volcano lair, and The Spy Who Loved Me had the spectacular ski jump and Lotus. Thunderball is memorable mostly just for the plot itself and that it was THE biggest Bond film.

[kevrichardson]

If "Goldfinger" is the prototype Bond . How come there have ben more Bond with a Nuclear subplot ? I was not impling that you were saying the film was bad. The AstonMartin was all there is to "GF" . The Blofeld/SPECTRE Volcano lair in "YOLT" ( it has become a poor running joke for Austin Powers fan) was a seroius invention in 1967 . I have read article that detail . The belief that the CIA feel that the North Koreans . Have built underground nuclear /chemical weapons complex . Using the technology used to build the Tunnel under the English Channel . So much for the joke . The ski jump in "TSWLM" , that was not the whole film . Which was rather good, kind of think of the film as Moore's "Thunderball" . The is nothing wrong with what "ThunderBall" is remembered for . It was the biggest Bond for a long time . It gets a bad rap due to the underwater stuff. Which was in keeping with FLeming's novel .

[1q2w3e4r]

I don't believe Terrance "disowned" Thunderball in any sense. He had to shoot another picture as soon as Thunderball wrapped and trusted Peter Hunt enough to edit it by himself.

Thunderball is still the highest grossing picture in the series, and Young said he'd never do another because there was no need, he'd done the first, what was argued as the best in terms of plots and characterisation in FRWL and the highest grossing in Thunderball. I never read anywhere he disowned the film. Why would he? It was '65 the height of Bond mania they knew it'd be hugely successful.

[kevrichardson]

Okay . i am just going by some interviews that he gave later . Especially in the "JBIFC" . Again the are some websites devoted just to "Thunderball" . www.obsessional.co.uk is very good .

[Dr Noah]

"Disown" is perhaps putting it a bit strong, but I've reave several interviews with Young where he comes across as being negative about the movie. For example he describes the underwater scenes as being "anti-Bond" (I'm not 100 % clear on what he means by that).

I get the impression that he never really wanted to do Thunderball in the first place (he was the 2nd choice to direct) and his heart wasn't in it.

[kevrichardson]

Originally posted by Dr Noah
"Disown" is perhaps putting it a bit strong, but I've reave several interviews with Young where he comes across as being negative about the movie.  For example he describes the underwater scenes as being "anti-Bond" (I'm not 100 % clear on what he means by that).
I get the impression that he never really wanted to do Thunderball in the first place (he was the 2nd choice to direct) and his heart wasn't in it.

Yeah i have read the same series of interviews . Just who was the original choice of Broccoli and Saltzman , with Kevin McClory as producer . For a guy whose heart was not in it . He did a great job. Please hlep don't tell me Guy Hamilton . Irony is i read that Guy Hamilton was penciled in to direct "OHMSS" for 1964 .

[Dr Noah]

"Irony is i read that Guy Hamilton was penciled in to direct "OHMSS" for 1964 "

I think OHMSS was due to follow Goldfinger, but then McClory started making waves attempting to make a rival Bond movie, so they came to an agreement and EON made Thunderball with McClory as producer instead. Hamilition turned the gig down and Young got it.

Ironically, McClory's action's might have prevented "Casino Royle" from being made bye EON, as shortly after Thunderball was released, the guy who owned the rights tried for a similar deal, Slatzman and Brocculi, turned it down, persumably the experience of working with a third producer (and sharing the profits!) was too much of a hassle.

[kevrichardson]

Nein!!! Guy Hamliton claims that he had run out of ideas after "GoldFinger" . Yet he was pencilled in to do "OHMSS" in 1964 . Yes after The Kevin McClory nightmare . Charles Feldmen approach Broccoli ?Saltzman about "Casino Royale " . But it was more of the fact that Connery demanded $1 million dollars in 1965 to do it .

[Dr Noah]

"But it was more of the fact that Connery demanded $1 million doolars in 1965 to do it!

Afterwards he stated he wished he DID pay Connery that $1 million, it would have been a lot cheaper!

I'm not sure but I think after EON declined the co-producing deal, the producer went to Connery direct, Connery, who was bored with Bond and on the verge of quiting, said he'd do it..for a million..and as intended, Feildman went away..

[kevrichardson]

Originally posted by Dr Noah

Afterwards he stated he wished he DID pay Connery that $1 million, it would have been a lot cheaper!  
I'm not sure but I think after EON declined the co-producing deal, the producer went to Connery direct, Connery, who was bored with Bond and on the verge of quiting, said he'd do it..for a million..and as intended, Feildman went away..

Either way buddy . We Bond fan lost out !

[Dr Noah]

I read somewhere that Richard Maiubaum even wrote a script for Casino Royale, possibly around the time the producer was trying to get Connery...

[kevrichardson]

Originally posted by Dr Noah
I read somewhere that Richard Maiubaum even wrote a script for Casino Royale, possibly around the time the producer was trying to get Connery...

God Dr.Noah !!! If you have a copy please give it to the two hacks who fashion themselves as the new Richard Maibaum . Neal Purvis and Robert Wade . That would save us from the "Die Another Day" repeat Bond 21 will surely be.