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The Next Bond Novel That Fleming Planned


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#31 hoagy

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Posted 25 August 2015 - 11:37 PM

General Koskov, your recitation of the Austin Power dialogue is brilliant !  However, I smite thee (did I get that right ?) for getting it down before I could even think of it, much less write.

 

Funny -- sort of -- that Anne Fleming had any more Kingsley Amis Bond novels kaboshed because she didn't like his politics, considering her late husband's views and feelings about women and marriage !  Kingsley held disagreeable views ?  If you don't like those, ma'am, here is something else for you to consider !  Oh, well.  I would rather than Amis had continued.  I like what he wrote, and it sure took a loooooong time before any more books came out.

 

At any rate:  This supposed outline sounds rather like Heart of Darkness.  Well, if you're going to be inspired by another novel, pick a great one !



#32 Guy Haines

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Posted 26 August 2015 - 08:42 AM

There was the Fleming inspired film "The Poppy Is Also A Flower" (aka "Danger Grows Wild") about the drugs trade in Afghanistan. It was directed by Terence Young, starred Terence Stamp as a drug enforcement officer, and though a work of fiction was made at the behest of the United Nations to warn of the dangers of the drugs trade. Might that have been, originally, the basis for a Bond novel? We know that the upcoming "Trigger Mortis" novel is based on unused Ian Fleming material as well. Who knows what other plot ideas he might have had lying around.

 

But would Mr Fleming have wanted to carry on with Bond after You Only Live Twice and The Man With The Golden Gun? Who knows? He had every financial incentive to do so thanks to the success of the Bond films, and I'm sure Messrs. Salzman and Broccoli would have been delighted at the prospect of further Bond adventures to film.

 

However, had the creative well run dry regarding Bond? He did seem to be tiring of the character. Fleming started branching out into other types of writing for publication as books - travel writing, children's stories and so on. Maybe he would have taken a break from Bond, tried different projects, then a few years later returned to 007 - and that would have been a publishing event!

 

As for the type of Bond novels Ian Fleming might have continued with - his stories often reflected what he had read about in his youth or experienced in his various careers. Could his James Bond have adapted to the changing times of the late 1960s and early 1970s - or beyond if Fleming's health had held up?

 

In the end it was his state of health, the strain of the Thunderball plagiarism court case, and the pressure of trying to keep Bond going that did for him. We'll never know what might have happened were it not for these factors. As John Pearson put it in his biography of the author; "James Bond had finally destroyed his only flesh-and -blood victim."



#33 Single-O-Seven

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Posted 26 August 2015 - 01:27 PM

Fleming tired of Bond by FRWL but brought him back (thankfully). I agree that the success of the films and the money he may have made would likely have driven him forward to continue the series post TMWTGG. I could, however, see him taking a break of a year or more, or perhaps writing them every two years to give himself some breathing room. That may have actually served both him and the books quite well.

 

Going back and reading over these olds posts is very entertaining and enlightening. it's nice to get possible hints of what might have come next, if only Fleming had lived just a little longer....



#34 glidrose

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Posted 27 August 2015 - 12:36 AM

Funny -- sort of -- that Anne Fleming had any more Kingsley Amis Bond novels kaboshed


NOT TRUE! Ann (no "e") Fleming had nothing to do with it. It was Amis himself who chose not to write another tho' he did toy with ideas for future Bond stories.

because she didn't like his politics, considering her late husband's views and feelings about women and marriage !  Kingsley held disagreeable views ?


Er, um, at that point the world knew Amis as a hardline socialist. Ann Fleming was a class-conscientious Conservative. Little did the world know that by this time Amis had snubbed his erstwhile lefty pals and had moved right. According to Amis, he voted Labour for the last time in 1964 and voted Conservative for the first time in the 1966 election.


There was the Fleming inspired film "The Poppy Is Also A Flower" (aka "Danger Grows Wild") about the drugs trade in Afghanistan. It was directed by Terence Young, starred Terence Stamp


Terence Stamp didn't appear in the flick. Andrew Lycett's Fleming biography appears to be the source of this strange error, which I suspect is where you may have gotten it from.

#35 Guy Haines

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Posted 27 August 2015 - 05:50 AM

On further checking you are absolutely right. My mistake - and Mr Lycett's because I do have his biography of Ian Fleming. Maybe he was getting his Terences confused? :-)

Also, I'd overlooked the fact that Bond appears to have been "killed off" or at least his fate is uncertain at the end of FRWL as a sign that Ian Fleming may have wanted out of the Bond novels as early as the fifth. Thank goodness he carried on with them.

From what I have read, he wanted to be treated more seriously as a writer, and was aware of the unkind criticism of his work from the literary set who gathered around his wife. I wonder if that may have been a reason for sometimes wanting to break free of Bond?

#36 stromberg

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Posted 27 August 2015 - 08:09 AM

There was the Fleming inspired film "The Poppy Is Also A Flower" (aka "Danger Grows Wild") about the drugs trade in Afghanistan. It was directed by Terence Young, starred Terence Stamp as a drug enforcement officer, and though a work of fiction was made at the behest of the United Nations to warn of the dangers of the drugs trade. Might that have been, originally, the basis for a Bond novel? We know that the upcoming "Trigger Mortis" novel is based on unused Ian Fleming material as well. Who knows what other plot ideas he might have had lying around.

An article by CBn's Charles Helfenstein on "Poppy". Unfortunately, the image links are broken, but the text is still OK.

http://commanderbond...o-a-flower.html



#37 Guy Haines

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Posted 27 August 2015 - 09:42 AM

An interesting read about a now obscure project with links to Ian Fleming. I wonder if it didn't do as well as was hoped for because it was promoted like a Bond film, the Bond links (Terence Young, Harold Sakata) were emphasised, but pretty soon after viewing audiences realised it wasn't really a "Bond" film at all. Plus, it would be competing against a whole lot of imitators of Bond in the cinemas.

The article mentions the involvement of the US politician, diplomat and former Presidential candidate Adlai Stevenson in persuading star names to get involved. This must have happened either in 1964 or before July 1965, because on the eleventh of that month Ambassador Stevenson died suddenly whilst on a visit to London (I have a biography of him - a witty politician who ran twice for US President but had the bad luck to face the popular General Dwight D. Eisenhower as his opponent, and lost both times by a landslide.)

#38 B. Ret Smythe

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 12:14 AM

I had a dream I was visited by the ghost of Ian Fleming and he said to me that he still has the next james bond novel in his brains.

 

He said it was called 'Control Mines of Golden Africa' and that James Bond was going to be a gay black man.

 

I'm not sure if its true or not. 

 

But it seems that Ian Flemings ghost might be pulling some strings in Hollywood right now to make James Bond into a gay black man. Theres alot of buzz about it in the news.



#39 Single-O-Seven

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 12:34 AM

I had a dream I was visited by the ghost of Ian Fleming and he said to me that he still has the next james bond novel in his brains.

 

He said it was called 'Control Mines of Golden Africa' and that James Bond was going to be a gay black man.

 

I'm not sure if its true or not. 

 

But it seems that Ian Flemings ghost might be pulling some strings in Hollywood right now to make James Bond into a gay black man. Theres alot of buzz about it in the news.

 

Haha. Maybe. But whatever's currently in the news isn't really news. There has always been talk of making Bond something else, be it female, American, black, gay... whatever seems trendiest. And it will likely go on forever. Bond films will never escape the repetitive speculation that swirls around them, and often comes to naught.



#40 B. Ret Smythe

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 01:27 AM

Guess ian's ghost has been around since 1963 then. Thats why the rumours are so presistant



#41 Dustin

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 02:33 AM

Guess you might want to search for a seance forum then, just the thing to discuss your dreams there...

#42 Guy Haines

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 05:42 AM

And I think a check of the record of obituaries might be in order, because Ian Fleming died in 1964, meaning his ghost couldn't have been around since 1963!

#43 tdalton

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 05:48 AM

And I think a check of the record of obituaries might be in order, because Ian Fleming died in 1964, meaning his ghost couldn't have been around since 1963!

 

Maybe Fleming's ghost was just trying to get a jumpstart on writing Control Mines of Golden Africa



#44 B. Ret Smythe

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 05:56 AM

Sorry I got the date of death wrong. All I knew is that he died before Goldfinger and was still alive to have a cameo next to the train in from russia with love. So I thought 1963.



#45 Major Tallon

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 09:39 AM

By the way, the "cameo by the train" story has been thoroughly debunked.  Despite having a similarity of wardrobe to an outfit Fleming wore during filming, the guy by the train is not Ian Fleming.



#46 Guy Haines

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 11:36 AM

Agreed. I don't remember an cameo by Ian Fleming in the film, although I've seen photographs of him on set with Sean Connery, Robert Shaw and Pedro Armandariz.

#47 glidrose

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 07:05 PM

Dear mods and admins,

A special thank you for showing "I-have-control-mines-on-the-brain-assuming-of-course-I-have-one" the door.

Many thanks indeed.

#48 Walecs

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 09:26 PM

What? You mean he was lying? He was not truly visited by Ian Fleming's ghost?

 

It's a shame, I was planning a seance in order to ask Ian to dictate me "Control Mines of Golden Africa" and publish it. What a pity.



#49 tdalton

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 10:36 PM

What? You mean he was lying? He was not truly visited by Ian Fleming's ghost?

It's a shame, I was planning a seance in order to ask Ian to dictate me "Control Mines of Golden Africa" and publish it. What a pity.


You mean it's not real? I guess I should cancel my pre-order.

#50 sharpshooter

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Posted 30 August 2015 - 12:22 AM

I think there's only so far the Fleming timeline can go. In my opinion it reached a conclusion whether or not Fleming intended to write any more. In YOLT, Bond's an aged emotional wreck given a final chance to redeem himself. In TMWTGG, he's give a chance to re-prove his worth. It's all the same general theme of an old dog nearing the end of his run, having one last hurrah.

 

In DMC, we're told Bond is being monitored and will be replaced if need be. Which is only a small note, I guess. But I find it all repetitious. I think Colonel Sun gave the timeline a fitting end, not just in terms of the book's quality. But because it really returned Bond full circle to the cold, humourless type we discovered in Casino Royale. Which makes sense given the ordeals he goes through in OHMSS, YOLT and TMWTGG. And it's Bond taking charge - not being told off or being told what to do. Going out on his terms. 

 

That's why I'm thrilled Trigger Mortis returns to the middle of Fleming's timeline, two weeks after Goldfinger. I think that will go a long way in making things feel refreshed. 



#51 Guy Haines

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Posted 30 August 2015 - 06:45 AM

Walecs, if you had managed to arrange that seance and got "Control Mines Of Golden Africa" dictated and published the dust cover blurb from Devil May Care - "written as Ian Fleming" - would have been no word of a lie! ;-)

#52 tdalton

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Posted 30 August 2015 - 07:34 AM

I think there's only so far the Fleming timeline can go. In my opinion it reached a conclusion whether or not Fleming intended to write any more. In YOLT, Bond's an aged emotional wreck given a final chance to redeem himself. In TMWTGG, he's give a chance to re-prove his worth. It's all the same general theme of an old dog nearing the end of his run, having one last hurrah.

 

In DMC, we're told Bond is being monitored and will be replaced if need be. Which is only a small note, I guess. But I find it all repetitious. I think Colonel Sun gave the timeline a fitting end, not just in terms of the book's quality. But because it really returned Bond full circle to the cold, humourless type we discovered in Casino Royale. Which makes sense given the ordeals he goes through in OHMSS, YOLT and TMWTGG. And it's Bond taking charge - not being told off or being told what to do. Going out on his terms. 

 

That's why I'm thrilled Trigger Mortis returns to the middle of Fleming's timeline, two weeks after Goldfinger. I think that will go a long way in making things feel refreshed. 

 

I think I'd much rather they just drop the Fleming timeline altogether and just permanently move the literary franchise into the present day.  It seems as though they're just constantly looking for someone to mimic Fleming and his style when I think the novels would be better off getting a good writer and just letting him create his own style and come up with his own world within to set the story.  Carte Blanche was the right direction to take things, it was just very poor in its execution.  Having one author after another either try to mimic Fleming, continue the timeline that his stories take place in, or both, has reached its sell-by date at this point.  It's time to do something else.



#53 Harmsway

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Posted 30 August 2015 - 06:20 PM

If Horowitz does a good job with Trigger Mortis--and the reviews are suggesting he does--then I'm fine with him doing a series of period novels set in the Fleming timeline. It's a tricky thing to pull off, admittedly, but if Horowitz has the magic touch, by all means, let him have at it.



#54 Single-O-Seven

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Posted 30 August 2015 - 10:49 PM

If Horowitz does a good job with Trigger Mortis--and the reviews are suggesting he does--then I'm fine with him doing a series of period novels set in the Fleming timeline. It's a tricky thing to pull off, admittedly, but if Horowitz has the magic touch, by all means, let him have at it.


I'd agree with this for the most part. How would you feel if he jumped around within the timeline? Say, set his next novel pre CR, and his third novel at some other point, just to change perspective and play with different periods of Bond's character?

#55 Major Tallon

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 12:08 AM

I'd be OK with that, but it might be confusing to the broader reading public, not as familiar with the Fleming canon as we are.



#56 billy007

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 12:12 AM

I'm not sure if I want something written pre CR. I consider J. Pearson's "biography" a bible. Young James Bond has their moments but they are still Young Adult.

But stories in Fleming's timeline in between published accounts(possible sequels?) could prove interesting.



#57 Single-O-Seven

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 02:18 AM

I'm not sure if I want something written pre CR. I consider J. Pearson's "biography" a bible. Young James Bond has their moments but they are still Young Adult.
But stories in Fleming's timeline in between published accounts(possible sequels?) could prove interesting.


I would love a pre CR novel. There doesn't have to be anything poignant in it, such as Bond struggling through his first OO mission. He could simply be OO7, the man just as he was at the start of CR, on a straight forward mission in the early years of the Cold War. I agree with you about Pearson's book - some of the best Bond "short stories" fill its pages.

#58 sharpshooter

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 04:28 AM

How would you feel if he jumped around within the timeline? Say, set his next novel pre CR, and his third novel at some other point, just to change perspective and play with different periods of Bond's character?

I think it would be better if 'Horowitz's Bond' moved forwards, perhaps in the timeline before Thunderball and just before OHMSS. I'm not sure just how much wiggle room he would have, but that period, before it all goes to hell emotionally for Bond, would be my pick. 



#59 Single-O-Seven

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 04:45 AM


How would you feel if he jumped around within the timeline? Say, set his next novel pre CR, and his third novel at some other point, just to change perspective and play with different periods of Bond's character?

I think it would be better if 'Horowitz's Bond' moved forwards, perhaps in the timeline before Thunderball and just before OHMSS. I'm not sure just how much wiggle room he would have, but that period, before it all goes to hell emotionally for Bond, would be my pick.

It might be a neat way to show more of Bond's hunt for Blofeld, as alluded to in TSWLM. Have him following up on another lead, confronting a Spectre agent, etc. Then show his growing disillusionment, leading into OHMSS.

#60 sharpshooter

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 04:55 AM

It might be a neat way to show more of Bond's hunt for Blofeld, as alluded to in TSWLM. Have him following up on another lead, confronting a Spectre agent, etc. Then show his growing disillusionment, leading into OHMSS.

That sounds great.