12 replies to this topic

[Iceskater101]

So I am rewatching Dr. No because I haven't seen it in a while. I remember when Honey is talking to Bond and she is talking about a black widow spider and her father. I missed the part that she had been raped by a landlord and that she killed him with the black widow spider. 

 

I have to say that's pretty bad ass. I think that's kind of cool that she had that back story and it was put into a Bond movie. I have no idea if that was in the book version of this movie, but I give Honey props for being able to deal with being raped and getting her revenge (which may not be morally right, but still.)

 

[Guy Haines]

Hi Iceskater101,

 

It was in the novel. And the "landlord" was quite a nasty piece of work, worse than described in the film. I know you are reading the novels, I'll leave it at that.

 

In the film of Dr No, both Honeychile Ryder and Dr. Julius No have back-stories, unusual when you consider the rest of the film series. As for the rest, well, Auric Goldfinger opened up a bit about himself, and you would have the "briefings" near the start of the movie about the bad guy, between Bond & M. But nothing like the detail Fleming invested in his characters - in Thunderball, for example, Fleming writes a whole couple of chapters about Blofeld, who is almost a cameo in the novel.

 

I suppose that's the way with films these days - you don't need a back story, just make sure that the audience knows who to cheer and who to hiss.

[Turn]

Honey is a good case against the common perception that Bond women, or girls, were just bimbo eye candy. True a few were, but Honey had the benefit of Fleming's back story. The majority of the '60s Bond women were stronger and more interesting than they're given credit for. Anya Amasova was supposed to be that turning point but she's rather bland as a character as is Holly Goodhead. Just because they can fight and are trained agents doesn't make them immune to being captured or just kind of there and not much more. Not to mention the other female agent copying her 40 some years later.

 

Although she needs rescuing at the end, Honey seems rather independent, interested in Bond but not falling all over him either.

[ggl]

Honey is a good case against the common perception that Bond women, or girls, were just bimbo eye candy. True a few were, but Honey had the benefit of Fleming's back story. The majority of the '60s Bond women were stronger and more interesting than they're given credit for. Anya Amasova was supposed to be that turning point but she's rather bland as a character as is Holly Goodhead. Just because they can fight and are trained agents doesn't make them immune to being captured or just kind of there and not much more. Not to mention the other female agent copying her 40 some years later.

 

Although she needs rescuing at the end, Honey seems rather independent, interested in Bond but not falling all over him either.

Agree. Well said. +1

[glidrose]

In the film of Dr No, both Honeychile Ryder and Dr. Julius No have back-stories, unusual when you consider the rest of the film series. As for the rest, well, Auric Goldfinger opened up a bit about himself, and you would have the "briefings" near the start of the movie about the bad guy, between Bond & M. But nothing like the detail Fleming invested in his characters - in Thunderball, for example, Fleming writes a whole couple of chapters about Blofeld, who is almost a cameo in the novel.

Don't forget Scaramanga's back story in the film version. Fairly taken from Fleming's novel too.

[Iceskater101]

 

It was in the novel. And the "landlord" was quite a nasty piece of work, worse than described in the film. I know you are reading the novels, I'll leave it at that.

 

 

 

Interesting! I can't wait to read about it. I think it's interesting though because wasn't "rape" taboo in that time period? Or not taboo but just not talked about? So I find it really interesting that Fleming decided to include that in the novel and obviously in the movie. I also like that yeah, Honey isn't your stereotypical Bond lady. She is a damsel in distress in the end and Bond does save her but at the same time she can fight for herself and she is a really strong independent woman! 

[The*SPY*]

QOS's Camille had an interesting backstory to her revenge against General Madrano.

[Guy Haines]

 

In the film of Dr No, both Honeychile Ryder and Dr. Julius No have back-stories, unusual when you consider the rest of the film series. As for the rest, well, Auric Goldfinger opened up a bit about himself, and you would have the "briefings" near the start of the movie about the bad guy, between Bond & M. But nothing like the detail Fleming invested in his characters - in Thunderball, for example, Fleming writes a whole couple of chapters about Blofeld, who is almost a cameo in the novel.

Don't forget Scaramanga's back story in the film version. Fairly taken from Fleming's novel too.

 

Quite right, I should have remembered that! Bond's potted history of Scaramanga in the briefing session with M, and then Scaramanga's own "touching" tale about his time in the circus and that dear old bull-elephant. It was sad, what happened to poor "jumbo". Pity that Scaramanga had to spoil this tale of woe by saying that, however much he was an animal lover, he loved killing people even more!

QOS's Camille had an interesting backstory to her revenge against General Madrano.

I agree, and it was important to the storyline, not just background detail.

 

 

It was in the novel. And the "landlord" was quite a nasty piece of work, worse than described in the film. I know you are reading the novels, I'll leave it at that.

 

 

 

Interesting! I can't wait to read about it. I think it's interesting though because wasn't "rape" taboo in that time period? Or not taboo but just not talked about? So I find it really interesting that Fleming decided to include that in the novel and obviously in the movie. I also like that yeah, Honey isn't your stereotypical Bond lady. She is a damsel in distress in the end and Bond does save her but at the same time she can fight for herself and she is a really strong independent woman! 

 

Honey Ryder is one of my favourite Bond women - a "child of nature" in the novel, but more than able to take care of herself. Have you ever read John Pearson's "biography" of Bond? Honey appears in that too, but you'll be quite surprised how her life turned out post 007.

[Iceskater101]

 

 

In the film of Dr No, both Honeychile Ryder and Dr. Julius No have back-stories, unusual when you consider the rest of the film series. As for the rest, well, Auric Goldfinger opened up a bit about himself, and you would have the "briefings" near the start of the movie about the bad guy, between Bond & M. But nothing like the detail Fleming invested in his characters - in Thunderball, for example, Fleming writes a whole couple of chapters about Blofeld, who is almost a cameo in the novel.

Don't forget Scaramanga's back story in the film version. Fairly taken from Fleming's novel too.

 

Quite right, I should have remembered that! Bond's potted history of Scaramanga in the briefing session with M, and then Scaramanga's own "touching" tale about his time in the circus and that dear old bull-elephant. It was sad, what happened to poor "jumbo". Pity that Scaramanga had to spoil this tale of woe by saying that, however much he was an animal lover, he loved killing people even more!

QOS's Camille had an interesting backstory to her revenge against General Madrano.

I agree, and it was important to the storyline, not just background detail.

 

 

It was in the novel. And the "landlord" was quite a nasty piece of work, worse than described in the film. I know you are reading the novels, I'll leave it at that.

 

 

 

Interesting! I can't wait to read about it. I think it's interesting though because wasn't "rape" taboo in that time period? Or not taboo but just not talked about? So I find it really interesting that Fleming decided to include that in the novel and obviously in the movie. I also like that yeah, Honey isn't your stereotypical Bond lady. She is a damsel in distress in the end and Bond does save her but at the same time she can fight for herself and she is a really strong independent woman! 

 

Honey Ryder is one of my favourite Bond women - a "child of nature" in the novel, but more than able to take care of herself. Have you ever read John Pearson's "biography" of Bond? Honey appears in that too, but you'll be quite surprised how her life turned out post 007.

 

 

No I haven't read John Pearson's novel. So what is the novel exactly, does it explain what happens to each character or what?

[Guy Haines]

 

 

 

In the film of Dr No, both Honeychile Ryder and Dr. Julius No have back-stories, unusual when you consider the rest of the film series. As for the rest, well, Auric Goldfinger opened up a bit about himself, and you would have the "briefings" near the start of the movie about the bad guy, between Bond & M. But nothing like the detail Fleming invested in his characters - in Thunderball, for example, Fleming writes a whole couple of chapters about Blofeld, who is almost a cameo in the novel.

Don't forget Scaramanga's back story in the film version. Fairly taken from Fleming's novel too.

 

Quite right, I should have remembered that! Bond's potted history of Scaramanga in the briefing session with M, and then Scaramanga's own "touching" tale about his time in the circus and that dear old bull-elephant. It was sad, what happened to poor "jumbo". Pity that Scaramanga had to spoil this tale of woe by saying that, however much he was an animal lover, he loved killing people even more!

QOS's Camille had an interesting backstory to her revenge against General Madrano.

I agree, and it was important to the storyline, not just background detail.

 

 

It was in the novel. And the "landlord" was quite a nasty piece of work, worse than described in the film. I know you are reading the novels, I'll leave it at that.

 

 

 

Interesting! I can't wait to read about it. I think it's interesting though because wasn't "rape" taboo in that time period? Or not taboo but just not talked about? So I find it really interesting that Fleming decided to include that in the novel and obviously in the movie. I also like that yeah, Honey isn't your stereotypical Bond lady. She is a damsel in distress in the end and Bond does save her but at the same time she can fight for herself and she is a really strong independent woman! 

 

Honey Ryder is one of my favourite Bond women - a "child of nature" in the novel, but more than able to take care of herself. Have you ever read John Pearson's "biography" of Bond? Honey appears in that too, but you'll be quite surprised how her life turned out post 007.

 

 

No I haven't read John Pearson's novel. So what is the novel exactly, does it explain what happens to each character or what?

 

Hi Iceskater 101

 

It's a novel written in the style of an "authorised biography" - John Pearson wrote a biography of Ian Fleming in the mid 1960s, and his Bond biography follows the man from his boyhood, through school, adolescence, armed forces and finally joining British Intelligence. It refers to the missions from time to time, and comes up with an amusing reason why Ian Fleming was "allowed" by MI6 to write his books about Bond. It features various adventures in between the ones Fleming wrote about- "Bond: The Lost Years" you could call it and ends in the present day (when it was written, early 1970s) with Bond going off on another mission, after a villain who appeared in previous Fleming novels. And Honey Ryder is in it, though as I say, she's changed just a bit.

 

Here's a Wikipedia link about it. It is still available on Amazon and other sites.

 

http://en.wikipedia....iography_of_007

 

Hope you manage to get hold of a copy, it's a rather well written book, one of the best of the continuation novels.

[glidrose]

In the film of Dr No, both Honeychile Ryder and Dr. Julius No have back-stories, unusual when you consider the rest of the film series. As for the rest, well, Auric Goldfinger opened up a bit about himself, and you would have the "briefings" near the start of the movie about the bad guy, between Bond & M. But nothing like the detail Fleming invested in his characters - in Thunderball, for example, Fleming writes a whole couple of chapters about Blofeld, who is almost a cameo in the novel.

Don't forget Scaramanga's back story in the film version. Fairly taken from Fleming's novel too.

Quite right, I should have remembered that! Bond's potted history of Scaramanga in the briefing session with M, and then Scaramanga's own "touching" tale about his time in the circus and that dear old bull-elephant. It was sad, what happened to poor "jumbo". Pity that Scaramanga had to spoil this tale of woe by saying that, however much he was an animal lover, he loved killing people even more!

Let's see...

Stacy Sutton's backstory in AVTAK
Octopussy's backstory in OCT
Vesper's backstory in CR'06
Silva's backstory in SF
Severine's backstory in SF
Tracy's backstory in OHMSS
Domino's backstory in TB

I'm sure there are others.

[Guy Haines]

Point taken, but I was thinking more about Bond's adversaries - and thinking about it again, we have Grant's dossier in FRWL, Grant talking about Klebb in the train scene, Blofeld's whole "made up" background as the Count de Bleauchamp, Kristatos and Columbo's backgrounds in FRWL, Zorin's rather strange history as a genetic freak, Brad Whitaker's background thrown back at him by General Pushkin in TLD - you're right, the list is greater than I thought, though the details are necessarily only brief in most cases.

 

But about, say, Ernst Stavro Blofeld we are told next to nothing in the films - he's just there, the boss of SPECTRE. Perhaps that's as it should be - a chameleon man of mystery. (Rather unfortunate choice of words there, "man of mystery", in view of the Austin Powers films!) 

[Turn]

Agreed. There are times when more isn't necessary. Reading about Grant's homicidal tendencies are chilling as hell in the novel, but in the film it works out great without that as Young and Maibaum presented it. You know he's deadly. That's a case where the film and book complement one another -- you feel compelled to know more.

 

Same with Blofeld in the films, he's mysterious and stays so, at least in the early films. You don't need more. He seems more human, almost sympathetic at times in the books. But you feel Bond's rage at the end of YOLT and it's much more satisfying than ramming the bathosub into a control room.