36 replies to this topic

[Henry-Jones-Sr]

If there's one thing I feel that's really missing from the recent Bond movies it's the use of the laid back, understated arrangement of the Bond theme when our man is going about his business. 



I'm talking about those scenes when Bond is entering or leaving an airport, walking through a government building on his way to a rendezvous with M, driving up to the main entrance of a casino, or simply sweet talking the ladies. 

A perfect example of the arrangement I'm talking about is the track 'Company Car' from Tomorrow Never Dies. A very cool, swinging rendition of the Bond theme. Here's the track if your memory needs refreshing:





The other thing that's definitely missing is John Barry's approach to scoring an action scene. The last seven or so scores have opted for the orchestra going at full 'crash bang wallop' in unison with whatever is crashing, banging and walloping on screen. I was disappointed that even Thomas Newman went down this route. 

Barry, however, would more often than not use a single melody to underscore the entire scene without resorting to the aforementioned 'crash bang wallop'.

The trick, which he always pulled off beautifully, was to write a melody that perfectly fitted the tone or pace of the action scene in question. Usually, this melody was a variation of the title song, but sometimes it was completely original. 

Examples of this approach are 'He's Dangerous' from A View To A Kill, 'Capsule In Space' from Thunderball, and 'Inflight Fight' from the Living Daylights.



It's a far more effective way of scoring a Bond movie, if you ask me. Sadly, Barry's skill at composing not only strong action music, but also composing and utilising a multi-tasking title song seems to be somewhat lost on his successors.

Edited by Henry-Jones-Sr, 06 November 2012 - 11:52 AM.

[Walecs]

I prefer D. Arnold.

[Gothamite]

I thought Newman did a great job of peppering inventive, exciting but altogether laid-back strains of the Bond theme throughout his score. The biggest musical problem in the film was that there was no bombastic blare of the main theme in all its glory. It was perfectly acceptable to leave it out till the end in Casino Royale. Its absence in QoS was just one of the many confusing, convolutions that film had to offer.

Its absence in Skyfall was just a let-down, especially considering it was nearly there so many times (such as the train fight in Istanbul). The score was great otherwise though.

I love Arnold's TND score, although he's definitely guilty of over-using the Bond soundtrack in that film.

[The Shark]

I thought Newman did a great job of peppering inventive, exciting but altogether laid-back strains of the Bond theme throughout his score. The biggest musical problem in the film was that there was no bombastic blare of the main theme in all its glory. It was perfectly acceptable to leave it out till the end in Casino Royale. Its absence in QoS was just one of the many confusing, convolutions that film had to offer.

Breadcrumbs, She's Mine, Grand Bazaar, Istanbul etc.?

I'm talking about those scenes when Bond is entering or leaving an airport, walking through a government building on his way to a rendezvous with M, driving up to the main entrance of a casino, or simply sweet talking the ladies.

That's more of a David Arnold approach than a John Barry one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KUdXC0Gmhs

https://www.youtube....channel&list=UL

[Henry-Jones-Sr]

I'm talking about those scenes when Bond is entering or leaving an airport, walking through a government building on his way to a rendezvous with M, driving up to the main entrance of a casino, or simply sweet talking the ladies.

That's more of a David Arnold approach than a John Barry one.

Well, to my knowledge David Arnold only did that a couple of times, tops. Those laconic, laid back trumpet stabs have been following Bond around while he goes about his business since the very beginning. It's a shame that Arnold seems to be the one that phased it out in favour of generic electronic pulses and nondescript ambience.

[Miles Miservy]

What about the OTHER theme (the OO7 theme)? the one predominately featured in FRWL, TB, YOLT, DAF, LALD & MR?
I miss that one.

Edited by Miles Miservy, 06 November 2012 - 07:16 PM.

[The Shark]

Well, to my knowledge David Arnold only did that a couple of times, tops. Those laconic, laid back trumpet stabs have been following Bond around while he goes about his business since the very beginning.

Give me examples.

From my memory, Barry phased that Kenton-esque approach to Bond in the Moore-era, and even in the Connery scores, there's nothing like those cutesy trumpet glissandos in Company Car. The closest I can think of would be the Bond to Holland cue DAF when Bond takes the hovercraft from Dover, but even then, that's hardly laid back or laconic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-NrhVI4mO0

Much ballsier than any of Arnold's takes on the Bond theme.

[TheHouseholdCat]

If there's one thing I feel that's really missing from the recent Bond movies it's the use of the laid back, understated arrangement of the Bond theme when our man is going about his business. 



I'm talking about those scenes when Bond is entering or leaving an airport, walking through a government building on his way to a rendezvous with M, driving up to the main entrance of a casino, or simply sweet talking the ladies. 

A perfect example of the arrangement I'm talking about is the track 'Company Car' from Tomorrow Never Dies. A very cool, swinging rendition of the Bond theme. Here's the track if your memory needs refreshing:



The other thing that's definitely missing is John Barry's approach to scoring an action scene. The last seven or so scores have opted for the orchestra going at full 'crash bang wallop' in unison with whatever is crashing, banging and walloping on screen. I was disappointed that even Thomas Newman went down this route. 

Barry, however, would more often than not use a single melody to underscore the entire scene without resorting to the aforementioned 'crash bang wallop'.

The trick, which he always pulled off beautifully, was to write a melody that perfectly fitted the tone or pace of the action scene in question. Usually, this melody was a variation of the title song, but sometimes it was completely original. 

Examples of this approach are 'He's Dangerous' from A View To A Kill, 'Capsule In Space' from Thunderball, and 'Inflight Fight' from the Living Daylights.



It's a far more effective way of scoring a Bond movie, if you ask me. Sadly, Barry's skill at composing not only strong action music, but also composing and utilising a multi-tasking title song seems to be somewhat lost on his successors.

I get your point and I definitely agree with you that this is Barry's appeal, but I don't think Skyfall could have been scored that way. It wouldn't have worked with the images in the film because Skyfall, as good as it may be, has been directed like an action film, even if it contains elements of a spy thriller.

So it's not only a case of the director's/producer's/composer's etc choices regarding the music but also the films themselves. Barry himself adapted his style to the more exciting 80s Bonds. But it still worked on those. The 90s introduced a new Bond style though, thus the change in music.

I thought Newman did a great job of peppering inventive, exciting but altogether laid-back strains of the Bond theme throughout his score. The biggest musical problem in the film was that there was no bombastic blare of the main theme in all its glory. It was perfectly acceptable to leave it out till the end in Casino Royale. Its absence in QoS was just one of the many confusing, convolutions that film had to offer.

Its absence in Skyfall was just a let-down, especially considering it was nearly there so many times (such as the train fight in Istanbul). The score was great otherwise though.

I love Arnold's TND score, although he's definitely guilty of over-using the Bond soundtrack in that film.

It would have been exciting to hear his take on the main theme. Definitely. But most of Newman's music could be described as "nearly there", so it might be his own "fault" after all...

[gkgyver]

I thought Newman did a great job of peppering inventive, exciting but altogether laid-back strains of the Bond theme throughout his score. The biggest musical problem in the film was that there was no bombastic blare of the main theme in all its glory. It was perfectly acceptable to leave it out till the end in Casino Royale. Its absence in QoS was just one of the many confusing, convolutions that film had to offer.

Breadcrumbs, She's Mine, Grand Bazaar, Istanbul etc.?

Breadcrumbs is David Arnold. And it played more like a reminder of the good old days than anything.
He means the swinging part of the theme. Grand Bazaar could have used it to great effect, as well as The Bloody Shot. But Newman never plays it straightforward in this, can't stress this enough, 50th anniversary film. Wasted.

[The Shark]

I thought Newman did a great job of peppering inventive, exciting but altogether laid-back strains of the Bond theme throughout his score. The biggest musical problem in the film was that there was no bombastic blare of the main theme in all its glory. It was perfectly acceptable to leave it out till the end in Casino Royale. Its absence in QoS was just one of the many confusing, convolutions that film had to offer.

Breadcrumbs, She's Mine, Grand Bazaar, Istanbul etc.?

Breadcrumbs is David Arnold. And it played more like a reminder of the good old days than anything.
He means the swinging part of the theme. Grand Bazaar could have used it to great effect, as well as The Bloody Shot. But Newman never plays it straightforward in this, can't stress this enough, 50th anniversary film. Wasted.

Where are the moments in the PTS where the swing part of the theme could have been quoted in full? I'm genuinely asking, because I can't think of a single stunt or shot that was OTT, relaxed, or sustained enough for those 8 bars to fit in, without coming off as overstatement or dramatically false.

[Henry-Jones-Sr]

Edit

Edited by Henry-Jones-Sr, 08 November 2012 - 01:46 PM.

[Henry-Jones-Sr]

Well, to my knowledge David Arnold only did that a couple of times, tops. Those laconic, laid back trumpet stabs have been following Bond around while he goes about his business since the very beginning.

Give me examples.

Okay, I may have been making too literal a comparison to Company Car when I talk about the laid back Bond theme arrangement in the earlier films. Overall, what I'm getting at - and I apologise for repeating myself - is the 'going about his business' style, rather than the explosive all-action arrangement of the theme.

Another good example of what I mean is this track from From Russia With Love, when Bond arrives in Istanbul. No, it's not exactly laconic, but definitely Bond-is-a-cool-customer style, which is much more what I was getting at.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=835iLpOpYCU

The other thing that's definitely missing is John Barry's approach to scoring an action scene. The last seven or so scores have opted for the orchestra going at full 'crash bang wallop' in unison with whatever is crashing, banging and walloping on screen. I was disappointed that even Thomas Newman went down this route. 

Barry, however, would more often than not use a single melody to underscore the entire scene without resorting to the aforementioned 'crash bang wallop'.

The trick, which he always pulled off beautifully, was to write a melody that perfectly fitted the tone or pace of the action scene in question. Usually, this melody was a variation of the title song, but sometimes it was completely original. 

Examples of this approach are 'He's Dangerous' from A View To A Kill, 'Capsule In Space' from Thunderball, and 'Inflight Fight' from the Living Daylights.



It's a far more effective way of scoring a Bond movie, if you ask me. Sadly, Barry's skill at composing not only strong action music, but also composing and utilising a multi-tasking title song seems to be somewhat lost on his successors.

I get your point and I definitely agree with you that this is Barry's appeal, but I don't think Skyfall could have been scored that way. It wouldn't have worked with the images in the film because Skyfall, as good as it may be, has been directed like an action film, even if it contains elements of a spy thriller.

You may be right about how the 'melodic action score' approach would not have worked in Skyfall, but I think it's a tragedy that what Newman did instead was deliver a staggeringly generic action score that's interchangeable with any medium range action movie such as Fast Five, Unstoppable, etc., etc.

What about the OTHER theme (the OO7 theme)? the one predominately featured in FRWL, TB, YOLT, DAF, LALD & MR?
I miss that one.

I must confess, and I'm sure you'll all think this is total heresy, but I never liked Barry's '007' theme. It just sounds so terribly naff and dated - in a bad way - and even sounds, dare I say it, a bit too TV for Bond. Even by 1979, it just seemed out of place and pasted on to the wrong movie.

Edited by Henry-Jones-Sr, 08 November 2012 - 01:51 PM.

[The Shark]

Another good example of what I mean is this track from From Russia With Love, when Bond arrives in Istanbul. No, it's not exactly laconic, but definitely Bond-is-a-cool-customer style, which is much more what I was getting at.

The Breadcrumbs arrangement is very similar to that in James Bond with Bongos.

You may be right about how the 'melodic action score' approach would not have worked in Skyfall, but I think it's a tragedy that what Newman did instead was deliver a staggeringly generic action score that's interchangeable with any medium range action movie such as Fast Five, Unstoppable, etc., etc.

Guess we're going to have to disagree here, since I for one loved Newman's score and approach (a few tips of the cap to contemporary action scoring aside). IMO, the most rousing Bond score since Barry's THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS.

[Guy Haines]

Anyone mind if a non musician, but with a family background in music, joins in? First, regarding the Thomas Newman score, I agree with The Shark. The more I listen to it, the more I like it. It is effective for this particular film. A few more references to the Monty Norman theme might have helped throughout, and I'm surprised there was only one obvious interpolation of the Adele theme, but on the whole I think it works.

That said, I do miss John Barry's approach to the Bond scores. Take the title theme, plus the James Bond theme and weave both into the music but in such a way that it doesn't seem "forced", as in there being a typical Bond moment in a film, therefore the James Bond theme has to be in the background.(Although there were moments when the original arrangement of the Bond theme appeared even though the film's existing score seemed more than able to carry a scene - I'm thinking here of the helicopters-v-Little Nellie scene in YOLT.)

I think the best example, to my musically untrained ear, is my favourite Bond score, Thunderball. It is based around four different themes - Thunderball, Mr Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, 007 and The James Bond Theme, but they seem to move seemlessly from the one to the other throughout, rather than a particular theme suddenly appearing out of the blue, unexpectedly.

(Which, I concede, happens with the track "Breadcrumbs" in SF, although in the context of the scene I understand why.)

[Henry-Jones-Sr]

Another good example of what I mean is this track from From Russia With Love, when Bond arrives in Istanbul. No, it's not exactly laconic, but definitely Bond-is-a-cool-customer style, which is much more what I was getting at.

The Breadcrumbs arrangement is very similar to that in James Bond with Bongos.

A little bit. I think this style of Bond theme is used only twice in all the Craig movies. There's a tiny bit in 'Dinner Jackets' from Casino Royale, none (as I recall) from Quantum Of Solace, and 'Breadcrumbs' in Skyfall.

The problem, when also taking into account the relative lack of explosive style Bond theme arrangement, is that Craig is the first Bond since Lazenby that feels like he doesn't own the Bond theme. They should be completely intertwined, but every time the Bond theme accompanies Craig on screen (which isn't very often!) it almost feels like the music has been dropped in from another film.

Bit of a rum do if you ask me.

[Bill]

SPOILER (in case this is a Spoiler Free forum, but I don't think it is).

There are many moments that cried out for a balls to the wall James Bond Theme in the film, particularly the pre-titles sequence. Yes, it was used but minimally so. Its greatest prominence was indeed in the Breadcrumbs sequence, but given the statement that it had to make, there really was no other way to score that.

However, given THAT ending, with Moneypenny's introduction and M in Bernard Lee's office, with Bond really back full circle, is when we truly deserved the theme. We got it where it belonged. The scene managed to unabashedly close the loop with Dr. No, as Sam Mendes said, having the Craig films still be a reboot but also tying directly into the previous 40 films. I will explore this in the reviews thread after I read all of them to either comment on the entries that touch on this or raise it in case it was not raised, but that ending really made the film for me. I think that we are meant to believe that despite the timeline being messed up (and something already done by having Bond meet Blofeld twice for the first time in YOLT and OHMSS) all 23 films are part of the same story, with these three Craig films serving as prequels to Dr. No (which again does not logically make sense, but I don't think we are supposed to think about the logic too much!) Thus, the theme was used to a minimum in the film until the gunbarrel, with Dr. No the film where we get it throughout the movie.

Now I would have preferred David Arnold to score the film, as he still is able to evoke the Barry sound even without overuse of the Bond Theme, but Newman's score is okay. Hopefully David Arnold will be back for Bond 24 scoring the gunbarrel at the beginning (and hopefully the Maurice Binder gunbarrel) with another score similar to Tomorrow Never Dies.

Bond is Back!

[Henry-Jones-Sr]

Bill, to jump on one of your points, I've always thought that trying to apply some kind of continuity or timeline to the Bond films is a mistake and ultimately a fruitless task.

Is Pierce Brosnan the exact same Bond in GoldenEye as Sean Connery is in Dr No? I absolutely think so. Does it make sense? Nope. Does it matter? Definitely not! It just isn't important. I call it movie magic.

Lee Tamahouri said that he believed James Bond was just a code name, and that Brosnan's Bond was the fifth person in MI6 to inherit the name. It just goes to show that Mr Tamahouri does not buy into the whole movie magic thing and look where that got him!

In the end, I think that Bond is the same man from movie to movie, regardless of his age or the decade. Mike and Babs decided to show Bond at the very beginning of his career in Casino Royale, even though he is working for the same M that Brosnan's Bond did. It was clearly established that Bond in GoldenEye had been around for at least a decade. And yet, in Casino Royale, the very same M refers to a post-Brosnan event - 9/11 - to her brand new recruit played by Craig. This proves my assertion that nothing is really the right way up in the series and it really doesn't matter.

Getting on to your point about how the Bond theme fits into the timeline theory. I must confess I loathe the way modern filmmakers seem to think that these rebooted characters have to earn their theme tunes and withhold them until the the end of the film, or even until the next film! Hans Zimmer said the same thing about his Batman theme. The worst thing I heard about Casino Royale was that Bond did not have the theme tune or the traditional gun barrel sequence because he hadn't really become the James Bond we all know and love yet. That's the stupidest thing I have ever heard. The idea that MI6 agents are issued with cool theme tunes and stylish gun barrel logos when they attain Double-O status is just ridiculous.

Again, no one seems to just go with the movie magic thing anymore. Everything has to have an explanation!

Phew. I'll feel better after a nice cup of tea.

[Bill]

Henry:

Good points. As we agree that Pierce is the same Bond as Connery, then we are on the same page. What bothered me fundamentally as a Bond fan was the fact that with Casino Royale, we had the first Bond that apparently did not fight Dr. No, etc. Now with Skyfall's glorious end scene (and Q's earlier introduction) that seems to be refuted. As a Bond fan, I cannot tell you how much that means. Yes, timeline and continuity does not make sense. I agree that "nothing is really the right way up in the series and it really doesn't matter"--as Bond really is Bond again. I can now go back and watch CR and even QoS (which I really did not like) in a whole new light. Messervy v Mallory, different races for Moneypenny and Felix (who Bond meets for the first time twice), old v young Q, post Cold War and then Cold War and then Cold War again--it all still fits and I can go back to loving Bond again. Granted, I never left, but my enthusiasm waned. I am delighted to have it back again!

Good points on the theme tune, but in the end, I think that it worked better this way. What would be interesting would be special edition DVDs with a rescoring the Craig films to insert the Bond theme to some of the scenes now that we have seen it all play out--

Edited by Bill, 10 November 2012 - 03:47 PM.

[Dan Gale]

I'm pleased I'm not the only person who seemed concerned about what seems to be a quiet conspiracy from Eon not to pay Monty Norman anymore royalties!
Using a signature musical motif to a series **in the end credits only** when it is not only the most effective and spine tingling action movie music cue ever written but practically (and arguably) the first, is just bonkers. Now that the films aren't using underwater robot sharks or intergalactic volcanos, the producers seem to think iconography like the gun barrel and the James Bond Theme are not grown up enough, history be damned. It was used often and to great effect in Licence to Kill, the darkest chapter in Bond's life so far, it didn't dampen the mood (it lightened it if anything, and much needed too!). These are James Bond films, where else would you except the James Bond Theme to be heard?!!
You know, bar for bar, note for note, the James Bond Theme appears in The Goonies more often than Quantum of Solace (excluding the end titles, which don't count as silly people aren't paying attention, getting up to leave the moment the first millimeter of end credits appear). Considering David Arnold says on the Tomorrow Never Dies dvd extras that the Bond theme is the thing he wants to hear in the movies, it's why he went to them as a kid and "there's only one thing you can play during moments like that" etc, he's been bloody reluctant to use it of late.

Dave. Mate. Put this in your diary. "Nov 2014. Bond 24. Get yer guitar out."

[AMC Hornet]

So Skyfall has gone 'full circle' and now that Mallory is (back) in M's office, Craig has become the Bond who will someday meet Dr. No?

 

Then who needs Bond #24?

 

How many more films need there be before 007's .25 Beretta jams on him and he gets sent to Jamaica to investigate Strangways' disappearance while sending a telegraph message, followed by his return to Istanbul to steal a mechanical coder from the Soviet embassy? How far in the future will it be before Bond thwarts SPECTRE's theft of MOS-type atomic bombs from a Vulcan aircraft?

 

The 'code name' theory dates back to CR '67, if you recall, and although it make sense in a way ("except it means that all the 007s happen to like martinis, and all had a late wife named Tracy..."), it isn't necessary. Bond is either always contemporary, or was already rebooted in 1987, and again in 2006.

 

Whatever. I don't need to makes 'sense' of an elastic timeline by conjecturing a lot of nonsense. Just give me Bond 24, 25, etc. If the 'timeline' strays from a full circle in the future ("but he already has a Walther PPK, and he already had a custom-equipped DB5 - why is the old/new Q showing him how to work the gadgets?") I'm good with that too.

 

In case you haven't guessed already, I don't think of the ending of Skyfall as coming 'full circle' so much as EON putting back of all those tropes which weren't broke in the first place (M's proper office was last seen 25 years ago - that's half the life of the franchise!). I look forward to B 24 being more in the Thunderball/OHMSS vein (with the gunbarrel back at the start, thank you), and if CraigBond never hears of anyone named Julius No or Ernst Blofeld, I can live with it.

 

As for the music, Craig 'earned' the JB theme in CR. Enough with the witholding - get on with a full-blown score to accompany a full-blown 007 adventure!

 

...with the gunbarrel back at the start, thank you.

[graric]

I'm pleased I'm not the only person who seemed concerned about what seems to be a quiet conspiracy from Eon not to pay Monty Norman anymore royalties!
Using a signature musical motif to a series **in the end credits only** when it is not only the most effective and spine tingling action movie music cue ever written but practically (and arguably) the first, is just bonkers. Now that the films aren't using underwater robot sharks or intergalactic volcanos, the producers seem to think iconography like the gun barrel and the James Bond Theme are not grown up enough, history be damned. It was used often and to great effect in Licence to Kill, the darkest chapter in Bond's life so far, it didn't dampen the mood (it lightened it if anything, and much needed too!). These are James Bond films, where else would you except the James Bond Theme to be heard?!!
You know, bar for bar, note for note, the James Bond Theme appears in The Goonies more often than Quantum of Solace (excluding the end titles, which don't count as silly people aren't paying attention, getting up to leave the moment the first millimeter of end credits appear). Considering David Arnold says on the Tomorrow Never Dies dvd extras that the Bond theme is the thing he wants to hear in the movies, it's why he went to them as a kid and "there's only one thing you can play during moments like that" etc, he's been bloody reluctant to use it of late.

Dave. Mate. Put this in your diary. "Nov 2014. Bond 24. Get yer guitar out."

 

Don't confuse the lack of Bond theme to a reluctance by David Arnold to use it: with both Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace he was instructed to keep it to a minimum by the director (Casino Royale as part of the whole Bond becoming Bond approach, while QoS Marc Forster says he asked Arnold to keep the Bond theme to a minimum because he didn't want it playing every 5 seconds like the Indy theme in Indy IV.) 

As for the Goonies feature more Bond theme than QoS, off the top of my head the Bond theme appears in:

"Time to Get Out"
"Bond in Haiti"
"Pursuit at Port au Prince"
"Talamone"
"Bolivian Taxi Ride"
"Field Trip"
"Oil Fields"
"The Dead Don’t Care About Vengeance" (or the sequence right before it when Bond leaves Greene in the desert.)

It isn't heard all guns blazing like Arnold did in Tomorrow Never Dies, but it is used quite well in the score without taking you entirely out of the moment.

[Odd Jobbies]

If there's one thing I feel that's really missing from the recent Bond movies it's the use of the laid back, understated arrangement of the Bond theme when our man is going about his business. 



I'm talking about those scenes when Bond is entering or leaving an airport, walking through a government building on his way to a rendezvous with M, driving up to the main entrance of a casino, or simply sweet talking the ladies. 

A perfect example of the arrangement I'm talking about is the track 'Company Car' from Tomorrow Never Dies. A very cool, swinging rendition of the Bond theme. Here's the track if your memory needs refreshing:





The other thing that's definitely missing is John Barry's approach to scoring an action scene. The last seven or so scores have opted for the orchestra going at full 'crash bang wallop' in unison with whatever is crashing, banging and walloping on screen. I was disappointed that even Thomas Newman went down this route. 

Barry, however, would more often than not use a single melody to underscore the entire scene without resorting to the aforementioned 'crash bang wallop'.

The trick, which he always pulled off beautifully, was to write a melody that perfectly fitted the tone or pace of the action scene in question. Usually, this melody was a variation of the title song, but sometimes it was completely original. 

Examples of this approach are 'He's Dangerous' from A View To A Kill, 'Capsule In Space' from Thunderball, and 'Inflight Fight' from the Living Daylights.



It's a far more effective way of scoring a Bond movie, if you ask me. Sadly, Barry's skill at composing not only strong action music, but also composing and utilising a multi-tasking title song seems to be somewhat lost on his successors.

 

You're bang on i think. Though one of my favourite scores in terms of the action scenes was LALD and that was George Martin.

[Dan Gale]

It isn't heard all guns blazing like Arnold did in Tomorrow Never Dies, but it is used quite well in the score without taking you entirely out of the moment.

No, and I wish it had gone all guns blazing, even for a second. It seemed such a weird decision by producers to remove everything that was 'Bond like' from Quantum of Solace. If it can't be done in a Bond film...then where? As it was, the reboot had removed or rejigged a lot of iconography we'd associated with 007 films in the past and weaving the James Bond theme into the score may have helped remind audiences this wasn't a generic action film - one of (several of) the criticisms often thrown at Quantum of Solace. As it was, the quotations if the theme are barely noticeable, at least, certainly after only one viewing (the general public is unlikely to listen to the soundtrack in the car as often as we more passionate loonies may).
The trailer was very bombastic so why not the movie?

[SecretAgentFan]

I miss these two things:

 

- the melody of the song being fully integrated into the score (mostly impossible because the song is not written by the film composer anymore)

 

- the travelogue aspect of the music, giving the main theme another variation and taking its time, i.e. Bond arriving in Rio with the Moonraker-theme (these days, that is considered hammy and not inventive/experimental enough).

[graric]

 

It isn't heard all guns blazing like Arnold did in Tomorrow Never Dies, but it is used quite well in the score without taking you entirely out of the moment.

No, and I wish it had gone all guns blazing, even for a second. It seemed such a weird decision by producers to remove everything that was 'Bond like' from Quantum of Solace. If it can't be done in a Bond film...then where? As it was, the reboot had removed or rejigged a lot of iconography we'd associated with 007 films in the past and weaving the James Bond theme into the score may have helped remind audiences this wasn't a generic action film - one of (several of) the criticisms often thrown at Quantum of Solace. As it was, the quotations if the theme are barely noticeable, at least, certainly after only one viewing (the general public is unlikely to listen to the soundtrack in the car as often as we more passionate loonies may).
The trailer was very bombastic so why not the movie?

 

As I said the decision wasn't made by the Producers, it was the Director (although they may have still had to approve the decision by all accounts they were quite lenient on letting him make his film without interference...even if they do not personally like the directors final result, which was the impression I got from several Michael Wilson interviews where he emphasized that QoS was the film Marc Forster wanted to make.)

As for the theme being barely noticeable, it is quite prominent in all the tracks I mentioned and when watching the film the first time, without having listened to any of the soundtrack, I didn't struggle to pick up on the theme in most of the tracks I have listed (the most Bondesque moment in the film for me is still the 'Oil Fields' sequence where the theme plays as Bond casually escapes M's guards, with a nice casual piece of the Bond theme plays building to the point when he walks out the front door.) As evidenced by those tracks the Bond theme was certainly weaved into the score through out the film, which is an entirely different approach to prominently featuring the theme 'guns blazing,' so I feel the score was hardly the part of the film that made people think it didn't feel like a Bond film.

While I would have obviously liked to seen it used more frequently, that still wouldn't have helped fix most of the faults in QoS (and using the theme in the sameway over the top manner in the same manner as Tomorrow Never Dies would have felt out of place, in my opinion.) As David Arnold said in a interview before Casino Royale: using the Bond theme takes away alot of the tension in a scenes, because you know Bond is about to figure his way of it...In many ways it is a victory theme for Bond, which wouldn't have sit well with what he was going through in QoS.

Bond in QoS isn't in the confident frame of mind we see in Tomorrow Never Dies (where the guitar riff is used as he drives around in his DB5 to show his cool elegance) he is 'damaged goods' a guns blazing heroic theme whenever Bond so much as walks in a room will take the viewer out of the scene because they will think Bond is cool, calm, in control and everything will turn out alright...which is the opposite of the Director's intent in QoS. 

The theme comes across when he has his small victories throughout the film...but restrained enough to show that Bond isn't in the comfortable, confident place we've seen him in before. The theme is restrained, but much more fully formed than its brief snippets in Casino Royale, and suited to the film the director was attempting to tell.

[Dan Gale]

It isn't heard all guns blazing like Arnold did in Tomorrow Never Dies, but it is used quite well in the score without taking you entirely out of the moment.

No, and I wish it had gone all guns blazing, even for a second. It seemed such a weird decision by producers to remove everything that was 'Bond like' from Quantum of Solace. If it can't be done in a Bond film...then where? As it was, the reboot had removed or rejigged a lot of iconography we'd associated with 007 films in the past and weaving the James Bond theme into the score may have helped remind audiences this wasn't a generic action film - one of (several of) the criticisms often thrown at Quantum of Solace. As it was, the quotations if the theme are barely noticeable, at least, certainly after only one viewing (the general public is unlikely to listen to the soundtrack in the car as often as we more passionate loonies may).
The trailer was very bombastic so why not the movie?

As I said the decision wasn't made by the Producers, it was the Director (although they may have still had to approve the decision by all accounts they were quite lenient on letting him make his film without interference...even if they do not personally like the directors final result, which was the impression I got from several Michael Wilson interviews where he emphasized that QoS was the film Marc Forster wanted to make.)

As for the theme being barely noticeable, it is quite prominent in all the tracks I mentioned and when watching the film the first time, without having listened to any of the soundtrack, I didn't struggle to pick up on the theme in most of the tracks I have listed (the most Bondesque moment in the film for me is still the 'Oil Fields' sequence where the theme plays as Bond casually escapes M's guards, with a nice casual piece of the Bond theme plays building to the point when he walks out the front door.) As evidenced by those tracks the Bond theme was certainly weaved into the score through out the film, which is an entirely different approach to prominently featuring the theme 'guns blazing,' so I feel the score was hardly the part of the film that made people think it didn't feel like a Bond film.

While I would have obviously liked to seen it used more frequently, that still wouldn't have helped fix most of the faults in QoS (and using the theme in the sameway over the top manner in the same manner as Tomorrow Never Dies would have felt out of place, in my opinion.) As David Arnold said in a interview before Casino Royale: using the Bond theme takes away alot of the tension in a scenes, because you know Bond is about to figure his way of it...In many ways it is a victory theme for Bond, which wouldn't have sit well with what he was going through in QoS.

Bond in QoS isn't in the confident frame of mind we see in Tomorrow Never Dies (where the guitar riff is used as he drives around in his DB5 to show his cool elegance) he is 'damaged goods' a guns blazing heroic theme whenever Bond so much as walks in a room will take the viewer out of the scene because they will think Bond is cool, calm, in control and everything will turn out alright...which is the opposite of the Director's intent in QoS.

The theme comes across when he has his small victories throughout the film...but restrained enough to show that Bond isn't in the comfortable, confident place we've seen him in before. The theme is restrained, but much more fully formed than its brief snippets in Casino Royale, and suited to the film the director was attempting to tell.

Fair enough, you're right, the vamp (the rising and falling motif) does make it in. It's the melody the guitar plays and the middle eight bit I miss. But you're right, it has its place. Marc Forster apparently shot Bond introducing himself in his signature style several times, unsure where to place it and, as a result, didn't use it at all. These little elements don't make the film successful but they're cherries on the cake: a few can be left out but when they're all suddenly left out it changes the flavour of the cake.
Erm...Bond Franchise as Cake metaphor. A first?

[AMC Hornet]

Welcome to the Lay'er Cake.

[Walecs]

I miss these two things:

 

- the melody of the song being fully integrated into the score (mostly impossible because the song is not written by the film composer anymore)

 

- the travelogue aspect of the music, giving the main theme another variation and taking its time, i.e. Bond arriving in Rio with the Moonraker-theme (these days, that is considered hammy and not inventive/experimental enough).

 

David Arnold has done this with Casino Royale, and before that in Tomorrow Never Dies with Surrender. Though I would like to see it more often as well, as you said, the whole song, not just part of it.

[PeteNeon]

I agree that there needs to be a lot more of the understated theme, but I don't think they should use Barry's approach to the action scenes as you described it, it's a bit dated now. I love those pieces of music, but I think in most cases they make the scenes a bit run of the mill... the same melody over and over gives the scene a bit of a production line feel and makes them a bit monotonous.

[SecretAgentFan]

I agree that there needs to be a lot more of the understated theme, but I don't think they should use Barry's approach to the action scenes as you described it, it's a bit dated now. I love those pieces of music, but I think in most cases they make the scenes a bit run of the mill... the same melody over and over gives the scene a bit of a production line feel and makes them a bit monotonous.

 

Interesting - I completely disagree.