47 replies to this topic

[junkanoo]

That may be so, but compare Arnold's action cues to, ahem, John Barry's. Game set and match.

Is this a John Barry Tribute thread or a discussion about David Arnold?

Btw, remind me ... what famous composer recommended Arnold to the Bond filmmakers?

Edited by junkanoo, 04 October 2012 - 03:08 AM.

[S K Y F A L L]

That was John Barry who recommended him, wasn't it?

I don't mind Eric Seirra score at all and would have been interested to see what else he could do.

About Arnold, I'm not a fan of his overly and would have to side with Sharky on this one. I think Arnold's gotten better as the films go on and still has one good one left in him,

but not awesome IMO.

[MattofSteel]

That may be so, but compare Arnold's action cues to, ahem, John Barry's. Game set and match.

Is this a John Barry Tribute thread or a discussion about David Arnold?

Btw, remind me ... what famous composer recommended Arnold to the Bond filmmakers?

This.

Still getting back to you, Shark. But sleep takes the precedent at moment.

[SecretAgentFan]

Lovely thread!

And strangely, I am in favor of both of you. I like Arnold and his melodies - and I also think that his music tends to be overactive... which IMO are most film scores these days (I´m talking to you, Zimmer and clones).

[Satorious]

John Barry didn't recommend him. That was some guy in a record store in Soho (seriously!). He did however say that after listening to some of his "Shaken and Stirred" work that he seems to "get's it" and he is happy to pass the batton on. Or something to that effect...

[junkanoo]

John Barry didn't recommend him. That was some guy in a record store in Soho (seriously!). He did however say that after listening to some of his "Shaken and Stirred" work that he seems to "get's it" and he is happy to pass the batton on. Or something to that effect...

"Barry contacted Barbara Broccoli, producer of the then-upcoming Tomorrow Never Dies to recommend Arnold as the film's composer." [Source: The Bond Sound: The Music of 007]. Now, if you have Babs reporting something different, please bring it forward.

Edited by junkanoo, 04 October 2012 - 02:17 PM.

[The Shark]

IIRC, Babs was the source of the record store story (can't find the interview at hand, though), but it's possible both of these are true.

[glidrose]

That may be so, but compare Arnold's action cues to, ahem, John Barry's. Game set and match.

Is this a John Barry Tribute thread or a discussion about David Arnold?

Btw, remind me ... what famous composer recommended Arnold to the Bond filmmakers?

If John Barry did recommend Arnold, Barry could not have known in advance what original music Arnold would write.

[junkanoo]

That may be so, but compare Arnold's action cues to, ahem, John Barry's. Game set and match.

Is this a John Barry Tribute thread or a discussion about David Arnold?

Btw, remind me ... what famous composer recommended Arnold to the Bond filmmakers?

If John Barry did recommend Arnold, Barry could not have known in advance what original music Arnold would write.

Why? Couldn't he have listened to Arnold's music to Stargate and Independence Day? Arnold wrote original music for both those films before he ever met John Barry. Arnold thanks Sir George Martin for introducing him to John Barry. I'm pretty sure Martin could cover that pretty well.

[The Shark]

That may be so, but compare Arnold's action cues to, ahem, John Barry's. Game set and match.

Is this a John Barry Tribute thread or a discussion about David Arnold?

Btw, remind me ... what famous composer recommended Arnold to the Bond filmmakers?

If John Barry did recommend Arnold, Barry could not have known in advance what original music Arnold would write.

Why? Couldn't he have listened to Arnold's music to Stargate and Independence Day?

Barry never mentioned them, and I doubt those are film's he'd go to see. What's known is that he heard Arnold's tribute album, nothing more.

[junkanoo]

That may be so, but compare Arnold's action cues to, ahem, John Barry's. Game set and match.

Is this a John Barry Tribute thread or a discussion about David Arnold?

Btw, remind me ... what famous composer recommended Arnold to the Bond filmmakers?

If John Barry did recommend Arnold, Barry could not have known in advance what original music Arnold would write.

Why? Couldn't he have listened to Arnold's music to Stargate and Independence Day?

Barry never mentioned them, and I doubt those are film's he'd go to see. What's known is that he heard Arnold's tribute album, nothing more.

And your point is ... ? My post was in a response to Glidrose who flat out said that John Barry could not have been aware of Arnold's ability to compose his own music. That's clearly wrong, so if you have an issue, it is with Glidrose.

If instead, you wish to suggest that John Barry was clumsy in his professional recommendations - suggesting that he would not have checked Arnold's original compositions first hand nor discuss Arnold with his composing peers ... have at it.

[The Shark]

Everyone's made mistakes.

[MattofSteel]

Because I can't stand most contemporary action scores.

Then I'm sorry. For someone who's clearly as big a fan of film score as you are, it must be hellish listening to these things. I won't disagree that they've generally trended in a direction that I'm not entirely comfortable with, but to say there aren't numerous contemporary examples I love would be a lie.

Powell's work on the Bourne films was amazing to me. Zimmer's Batman stuff was terrific if only because I wasn't sure a definitive franchise sound like Elfman's could be re-interpreted with any substance or relevance (see: Goldenthal's lame- attempts on the late 90's Batmans). And I've loved both Arnold's Craig film scores as much as anything non-Barry.

We're on pretty foggy grounds here. A lot of it comes down to what one considers emulating as opposed to aping/imitating. For the record I'm not asking for any composer to dot every 'i' and cross every 't' of Barry's inimitable style, rather bring their own. I wouldn't mind an interesting new take on Barry's musical signatures for Bond (the melodic minor scale, plunger mutes etc. ) in moderation, as long as the composer offered a new angle. That's the difference between pastiche and re-interpretation.

Agreed, it's very foggy. And our point of difference seems to be that I'm entirely satisfied with recent emulation attempts, and you're not. And yet I, personally, would be exceedingly fine with pastiche. I don't want to unfairly assign a significant value of nostalgia to your position - indeed, you seem very open to the progressive - but it's kind of ironic to me that I'm arguing in favour of the recent emulations when nostalgia is, truthfully, my primary factor in evaluating Bond music.

I resent bad attempts at emulating, broad strokes, or copying Barry's (or Arnold's) sound ad verbatim. The nods to the past should be more than icing on the cake.

But how does one define that line, even technically? Is it not purely subjective? What advantage do we have going beyond "it sounds like the Bond sound?" Is that not the final objective?

[junkanoo]

Everyone's made mistakes.

We sure do. That said, I'm a bit surprised that MattofSteel didn't launch on to your post as your concession. Clearly, he wishes to debate some more.

[junkanoo]

But how does one define that line, even technically? Is it not purely subjective? What advantage do we have going beyond "it sounds like the Bond sound?" Is that not the final objective?

That's a mixed bag for me. Sure, four trumpets blaring 'waah, waah, waah' may be considered a 'Bond sound' but I don't need or want that kind of thing, unless it is intended as a playful reference. To me, the value of new composers coming to the assignment is what they bring that is new and different ... yet ... does not jolt us too much. So ... I want classical instruments yes but I have no problem with electronic sounds as long as they don't sound electronic. I think that's been a strength of what David Arnold brought to the party. New sounds to compliment Bond.

Edited by junkanoo, 05 October 2012 - 06:54 PM.

[The Shark]

Matt - will get back to you, but I think we've hit an impasse.

I think that's been a strength of what David Arnold brought to the party. New sounds to compliment Bond.

Agreed. I wouldn't mind Arnold coming back if he promised to do an entirely electronic Bond score.

[Dustin]

But how does one define that line, even technically? Is it not purely subjective? What advantage do we have going beyond "it sounds like the Bond sound?" Is that not the final objective?

That's a mixed bag for me. Sure, four trumpets blaring 'waah, waah, waah' may be considered a 'Bond sound' but I don't need or want that kind of thing, unless it is intended as a playful reference. To me, the value of new composers coming to the assignment is what they bring that is new and different ... yet ... does not jolt us too much. So ... I want classical instruments yes but I have no problem with electronic sounds as long as they don't sound electronic. I think that's been a strength of what David Arnold brought to the party. New sounds to compliment Bond. If I wanted to just have the old stuff I can just listen to the old stuff.

It's really hardly a certified and universal category. I suppose prior to LALD nobody would have identified that kind of song with 'Bond sound'. Even 'Nobody Does It Better' seems to come from a different direction than DAF or GF did. AVTAK opened the door to another more pop-oriented direction; a door whose lock has already been gently picked by FYEO years earlier. 'You Know My Name' drifted into rock again and 'Another Way To Die' kicked in the gates to R&B-punk. The influences are various and do not seem to ever stop. Like the films themselves the 'Bond sound' constantly evolves.

Edited by Dustin, 05 October 2012 - 07:04 PM.

[MattofSteel]

Everyone's made mistakes.

We sure do. That said, I'm a bit surprised that MattofSteel didn't launch on to your post as your concession. Clearly, he wishes to debate some more.

I considered it. I felt it a bit objectively irrelevant, as if an accurate sourcing of Arnold's employment process would in any way inform his qualification or worthiness to provide the franchise's music. Good for cheap applause, maybe.

(Just kidding. I WIN! ...right?)

Matt - will get back to you, but I think we've hit an impasse.

No worries. We've been impassed for a long time, my friend.