104 replies to this topic

[O.H.M.S.S.]

Does anyone else have a strange affection for the 19th Bond film?

It might be because it is the first Bond I ever saw. However, here is what I like about it:

-Pierce performance more in depth than in TND or DAD.
-Sophie Marceau giving a brilliant and sexy performance as Elektra
-M is more emotionally involved
-Q's good bye and R's intro are fun scenes
-the whole story about oil feels never far-fetched to me
-some fantastic actions scenes (Caviar Factory and PTS come immediately to my mind)
-David Arnold's score here, is my favourite of all his contributions to Bond (incl. title song) and I am actually a Serra fan
-Cigar Girl as the mysterious henchwoman
-Imaginative Kleinman main titles
-Zukovsky is back
-Christmas Jones is gorgeous ...

What I did not like:

-... though unbelievable
-That underground scene is somewhat underwhelming
-Not that big of a fan of Renard
-An actor such as Ulrich Thomsen (Festen, Brødre) being completely underused

[thecasinoroyale]

I do like this Brosnan offering. It was my second Bond film I saw at the cinema, so still quite new to the whole cinematic experience of 007, and I was so hooked on the pre-title sequence, with the escape from Bilbao and the MI6 attack and boat chase. I still love the whole sequence, from the dramatic moments ("King...the money!") to the music. One of the better looks for Pierce too in the film, he looks well

The performances are all harmless, although I admit I don't rate Robert Carlyle much as a sinister villain. Sophie Marceau and Denise Richards ticked my Bond girl boxes, and some great locations and action sequences on land, sea and air.

A firm thumbs up from me - good Bond fun and adventure.

[SecretAgentFan]

I liked it back then and still like it.

IMO, it is Brosnan´s best performance as Bond. And of course, it has that line which for me defines Bond and is one of the best lines in the whole franchise...

"I never miss."

[DamnCoffee]

Loved it back in '99. I now rank it as my second least favourite Bond movie of all time, just above You Only Live Twice. It's such a bad film. Badly written and just SO dull. I enjoy some parts (Hell, I do in every Bond film). It's like they tried to make it a compelling movie, with real drama and it just fell flat on it's face. I do have a soft spot for Sophie Marcau though and the PTS. Hated Denise Richard, still do. Appaling actress. Renard is dull, Ski Chase is dull, everything is just so so so dull. It's not colourful, or exotic, it just feels, like Tomorrow Never Dies, a made for TV movie. Atleast Die Another Day had some kind of enjoyment to it.

I've never really been embarrased to be a Bond fan, but I have no problem admitting, that I watch the last 3 Pierce Brosnan outings just to laugh at, with friends. Brosnan is awful, bless him, he's actually a decent actor as well, it's just the entire thing is just so badly written that even he feels uncomfortable. The World Is Not Enough is like The Dark Knight for me. I have no desire to go back and watch it again. (Although TDK was a good movie, just very flawed)

[iexpectu2die]

I adore TWINE. Probably because it was my first cinema Bond film (sneaking in felt pretty Bondian to an eight year-old), but there's lots to love about the film itself. I don't understand the criticism Brozza gets for his performance - I find him incredibly charismatic. The action is great, with the exception of the helicopter attack (which, admittedly, carries the plot nowhere) and the story is far more compelling than the usual fare; I can't fault the producers for adding a human element. And like you, O.H.M.S.S, this is my favourite of Arnold's Bond scores. Not to mention the sexiest villainess since Fiona Volpe...

[DamnCoffee]

Not to mention the sexiest villainess since Fiona Volpe...

Honestly thought you were talking about Renard for a second there.

[Royal Dalton]

Does anyone else have a strange affection for the 19th Bond film?

Nope.

[O'Cookmate]

The World is Not Enough is a film that I think has its heart in the right place but like the rest of the Brosnan-era films feels quite ill-defined in its approach and struggles to find a place for Bond in the post-Cold War world (with the exception of Goldeneye, which uses this context quite well). It feels like quite a lazy film, using well-worn Bond tropes, while at the same time I think we can see the desire to take the Craig-era approach, given its attempts to make Bond and the rest of the MI6 more family more believable and relatable characters. But because it does quite know what it wants to be, it's a confused film. All the familiar tropes are there - a physically-scarred villain (though Renard's injury doesn't seem remotely realistic), the ski chase (albeit boring and without any practicalities or well-thought-out motivations), gadgets (although the BMW is not needed and I'm lead to wonder how the Kings' saw can cut through titanium), a casino scene (but somewhat pointless), nuclear subs (but in a fairly unimaginative plot) and of course beautiful girls (although Christmas Jones is very unbelievable as a nuclear scientist). It's quite a dull film to look at, too.

I admire the attempts to give Bond and the MI6 family more dramatic meat but Bond's connection to Electra King doesn't seem to fit with everything we know about the character. I feel like he falls in love with her far too easily and we're not really shown enough of a relationship between the two to justify this. The inclusion of M is interesting, though, but I do feel there's no way she'd be allowed to work on the case given her emotional attachment. People always seem to laud Q's final scene but his parting advice (which he's supposedly always tried to teach Bond) comes out of nowhere. That said, it is a touching appearance.

Plus, I've always found it quite strange that Bond and Zukovsky go from begrudging mutual respect (at best) in Goldeneye to being best buds, here. I suppose they needed a Felix Leiter/Jack Wade figure but it seems quite lazy to give Zukovsky this role.

Ultimately I suppose it's quite a lazy film that rests on its laurels. Purvis and Wade try to take an experimental approach but only seem to dip their toes in the water rather than taking the plunge that they ultimately would with Casino Royale.

[quantumofsolace]

Everything about it is .

[Mr_Wint]

It's not colourful, or exotic, it just feels, like Tomorrow Never Dies, a made for TV movie.

I am not a big fan of any Brosnan Bondfilm but "made for TV" is just a bit too harsh. The quality and sheer size of productions like TND or TWINE looks way beyond TV movies to me. Or maybe I have to watch more TV.

[DamnCoffee]

It's not colourful, or exotic, it just feels, like Tomorrow Never Dies, a made for TV movie.

I am not a big fan of any Brosnan Bondfilm but "made for TV" is just a bit too harsh. The quality and sheer size of productions like TND or TWINE looks way beyond TV movies to me. Or maybe I have to watch more TV.

Both films, Tomorrow Never Dies more so, looks just SO cheap and dreary, with really really dull cinematography. There's just no colour. Think of ... Oh, I dunno... Die Another Day. As bad as it is, the action sequences were really colourful and extravagent. Car Ice Chase, Hovercraft chase etc. Now look at Tomorrow Never Dies. A car chase in a garage, an awful and boring underwater sequence, and a really dull motorbike chase through Saigon. It just feels so confined and studio based. I've seen episodes of Doctor Who with more compelling action scenes.

With Bond, they try to put all the money on the screen, but TND lacked this completely. I mean, I'm all for gritty action sequences, but sequences that are supposed to be light hearted and have no reason to be so dreary is just awful. That's what I mean by the TV Movie comment. They just lack any type of scope, and feel confined. Saying that though, TWINE does feel a lot more cinematic in places, but overall it's still insanely dull.

Edited by Mharkin, 29 July 2012 - 09:30 PM.

[O.H.M.S.S.]

Mharkin, I agree with you on the TV film feel of Tomorrow. It is actually my least favourite Bond film. (Though I thought you liked it very much when I last visited Cnb, long time ago I must admit).

Anyway, I feel that World is certainly different in terms of colourfulness, except for that underground scene.

[S K Y F A L L]

TWINE was the 2nd film I seen in theaters, that was 13 years ago and I was 13 at the time.

I'm not a Denise Richards fan or of the girl who played Elektra King. I didn`t think it was going to be another `personal`mission with M being friends with the King family and Bond falling for Elektra.
It was nice to see so many characters return but I thought a lot of scenes could have been done better like the ski chase.
I thought it was a great touch to have a picture up of Bernard Lee in the Scottish MI6 building and I think because it was Desmond Llewelyn`s last Bond film, I have a certain sentimental attachment to it.

[DamnCoffee]

Mharkin, I agree with you on the TV film feel of Tomorrow. It is actually my least favourite Bond film. (Though I thought you liked it very much when I last visited Cnb, long time ago I must admit).

The funny thing is, I do enjoy Tomorrow Never Dies very much. I like the soundtrack, and I mainly enjoy it for nostagic purposes. I think it's a very flawed film though, and falls into my 'Bond films to laugh at with friends' list. I won't deny that it's enjoyable, and I can happily sit through it with a smile on my face.

Edited by Mharkin, 29 July 2012 - 09:55 PM.

[AMC Hornet]

The World is Not Enough...feels like quite a lazy film...it seems quite lazy to give Zukovsky this role....Ultimately I suppose it's quite a lazy film that rests on its laurels.

What are you imagining?

NP: "What should happen next?"
RW: "Oh, I don't know, throw in a ski chase or something."
NP: "Yeah, all right. We'll just take the one from AVTAK and rewrite it a litte."
RW: "Not too much, though - I don't feel like putting any effort into this."
Later...
MA: "Send those parahawks up and film them circling around for a while. Later we'll throw some petrol on one of them and blow it up. What do you mean, 'why?'? It's Neil and Robert's job to figure that out, when they get back from Acapulco or wherever they're hiding..."

No one sets out to make a mediocre Bond film. Everyone does their best, but sometimes the whole doesn't live up to the sum of its parts.
Purvis & Wade wrote a compelling story. Michael Apted likes to direct character-driven films. Second-unit action was turned over to Vic Armstrong, whose work blended so well with Roger Spottiswood's directing style. Jim Clark could only edit the film he received.

It's been said before that TWINE is not so much an action film with an emphasis on character motivation, as it is a character-driven drama with action sequences shoehorned into it. The twain just didn't meet very well.

I still enjoy it occasionally, when I don't feel like watching anything else...

[nickjb007]

I have fond memories of TWINE. It was the first Bond film where I followed the production of the film (mainly through entertainment weekly and watching shows like entertainment tonight). I read the novelization of the film before seeing the film and I was just excited. Also, my Dad took me to see the film so that is a good memory. I haven't watched TWINE in probably 5 years, so I need to go back and evaluate it. I look at TWINE as Brosnan's best performance as Bond. The writers tried to make Bond more realistic by making him more human, the injury he suffered and his relationship with Elektra. I loved the PTS it is one of the best. I really disliked Richards yeah she is beautiful woman but playing a nuclear scientist is a stretch even for a Bond film, she maybe one of the worst Bond girls out of all the films.

[Mr_Wint]

Now look at Tomorrow Never Dies. A car chase in a garage, an awful and boring underwater sequence, and a really dull motorbike chase through Saigon. It just feels so confined and studio based. I've seen episodes of Doctor Who with more compelling action scenes.

Strange, I cannot recall any action in "Doctor Who" which is comparable to the garage chase or the bike chase in TND. I have probably not seen the episodes you have seen...

[Miles Miservy]

Like any entry into the franchise, there are "Yays and Nays" abounds.

Some of the things that I enjoyed were:

> The interesting twist in having the woman as the villain
> The homage to OHMSS with the ski chase sequence
> Q's poignant exit from the film (and from this world)
> The nod to Bernard Lee with his portrait on the wall of MI6 Scotland

Some things that... well not so much:

> The long, drawn-out pre-title sequence
> The near nonexistance of the Z8 Roadster.
> The cringe-worthiness of Denise Richards' performance ( "TOTAL... CATASTROPHIC... MELTDOWN...")
> The death of Zukovsky

[Odd Jobbies]

Good choice of film to discuss. It's an odd affair - a real mixed bag, as many are, but this is mixed in a unique way.

I think the drama (the talkie bits) is directed superbly by Apted, and i think the action is orchestrated with aplomb by Vic Armstrong.

My problem is that these two elements feel to me like they are almost in separate films, directed with very different eyes. It's always been the case that when the stunt co-ordinater is also the 2nd unit Dir. then they have a big say in the style of their sequences. I think the issue here is that Apted is far less oriented towards action than his predecessors, thus his style is more at odds with the action than in other Bond movies; to some extent their was a similar issue with Forster's QoS, but i'd imagine it was the input of Forster and later his editor that left the action with a lack of geography.

The issue in TWINE is compounded by the use of (the otherwise excellent) David Arnold's score, which wheels spins bombastically into high gear as soon as the action cues. Normally this is exactly what you want, but in TWINE it just accentuates the cut from Apted to Vic Armstrong.

The action is good, harking back to the outrageousness of TSWLM (this was to be mirrored by DAD matching the outrageousness of MR - tipping it irrevocably into cartoon - this time round resulting in a much needed reboot).

The drama is even better, harking back to the realism of FRWL (in terms of the exchanges and emotions in the relationships).

But for me TSWLM and FRWL don't gel that well... At least not in this attempt.

Renard had fantastic potential - the actor who gave us the terrifying Begbie in Trainspotting playing a terrorist who can't feel pain... But i agree that ultimately he was a let down. The pain gimmick only really developed in his hot-rock holding scene and in a sexual context to illustrate Electra's hold over him. The final confrontation with Bond only really exploited this gimmick indirectly, whereas it should've somehow been at the centre of the action, since it was such a big deal in the briefing in Scotland.

"I never miss" is a truly great line in the franchise and Pierce delivers it well. Although he could of spared us the melodramatic kiss of the corpse; seems to be a running theme in the Brossa era - also snogging the dead Teri Hatcher for quite a long time in TND... Were there any more?

In a way you get 2 great movies for your money here - one from Apted, one from Vic, but together, IMO they negate one another. I would've loved to have seen an Apted Bond without Vic involved and a Vic Bond without Apted involved. They'd have been very different and both great fun in their own ways.

Edited by Odd Jobbies, 30 July 2012 - 06:44 PM.

[Colossus]

I did like the whole music when Bond and uh... whats her name Sophie are skiing before the rotor-flying henchmen start shooting at them.

[elizabeth]

It's a good adventure, and the N64 game is just as good.

[JimmyBond]

I've had a love/hate relationship with this one over the years. When I first saw it, I loved it. Then I hated it for the longest time. Then recently I reevaluated it, and now enjoy it as a very good Bond adventure. Perhaps not my favorite of Brosnan's, but still, a good film.

I think the films biggest weakness, is that the action scenes and the "drama scenes never seem to gel. Odd Jobbies elaborated on this in his post; the action just never feels like it flows organnically from the narrative. It plays on the old cliche of action movies that you need an explosion every half hour or the audience gets bored. At least with Tomorrow Never Dies you felt like the explosions developed naturally. Yes, that was a bit tongue in cheek, but I feel that one is much better directed. Had Spottiswoode taken the offer, TWINE could have been even better of a film.

[Darth Prefect]

"Loved it back in '99. I now rank it as my second least favourite Bond movie of all time, just above You Only Live Twice."

I've never been able to understand people who's opinions can swing that completely. Really? Loved it to despising it? I can't imagine that's a natural evolution.

As for me, no, I don't have a "strange affection" for the film. I have an honest affection for it, despite Denise Richards, an easily ignored weakness in an overall strong film.

[DamnCoffee]

"Loved it back in '99. I now rank it as my second least favourite Bond movie of all time, just above You Only Live Twice."

I've never been able to understand people who's opinions can swing that completely. Really? Loved it to despising it? I can't imagine that's a natural evolution.

Well I can understand it. For one thing. I was 8 years old when I saw it. After studying film and cinema in college and growing a massive love for films in general, I soon started to find it extremely dull. Same with Die Another Day. I loved it when I was 12. Now I think it's awful.

[JimmyBond]

I've always come out of every Bond showing saying "That's the best one ever." The most recent Bond film (Tomorrow Never Dies) was heavy on action and light on plot. So at the time, I was extremely satisfied to find a Bond movie that attempted to tell a story.

Tastes change a lot. After a while I came to find it dull, stopped watching it and that opinion magnafied. After rewatching it recently I discovered it wasn't as bad as I once remembered, so I changed my opinion on it once again.

I'm allowed to, after all

[Jim]

My immediate thoughts are that they appear to have remade substantial parts of it.

[AgenttiNollaNollaSeitsemän]

I liked it back then and still like it.

IMO, it is Brosnan´s best performance as Bond.

I second your opinions. In my opinion Renard was a fascinating character - the first Bond villain/henchman one could feel pity for.

[Colossus]

I've never played that game Elizabeth but only heard it, is it really?

[Odd Jobbies]

I've always come out of every Bond showing saying "That's the best one ever."

I have exactly the same problem - very little judgement when i first see it at the cinema, then after the following movie i can't believe i thought that previous one was so perfect. Then a while later i'll find the middle ground of whats good and bad about it.

They say love is blind

Had Spottiswoode taken the offer, TWINE could have been even better of a film.

Wow, i never knew he'd been asked. Yes, i agree that he would've handled the action heavy script better than Apted. However, i think Apted could've made a great thriller, in which the action evolved from the drama rather than a formula, more in the realms of FRWL than the GF formula they seemed to be working with in the Brossa era.

[Miles Miservy]

I've never played that game Elizabeth but only heard it, is it really?

....meh.