We all know Fleming didn't get to complete The Man With The Golden Gun, it's still a great read. Quite a strong novel, considering. But I've always wondered. Did Fleming ever speak of what he actually had planned for Bond? Was he planning on writing more Bond books after Golden Gun? Did he ever make known of any unused story elements that he didn't get round to adapting?
I think it's a shame really did Fleming didn't get round to giving Bond a suitable end, due to his early death. Saying that though, You Only Live Twice felt like it would've been the end for Bond. It rounded off the Blofeld/Spectre series, and if he just settled down with Kissy then Fleming could've just left Bond there, but he set up it's sequel with Bond going to Russia, leading into his assassination attempt on M in Golden Gun. Anyone think Fleming would've eventually killed off Bond? Sorry if this has already been answered or anything. It's just, I'm just discovering the novels for the first time. (Onto Octopussy & The Living Daylights, now)
Unused / Unmade Fleming story ideas?
Started by
DamnCoffee
, Mar 19 2012 03:46 PM
7 replies to this topic
#1
DamnCoffee
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Posted 19 March 2012 - 03:46 PM
#2
tdalton
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Posted 19 March 2012 - 04:34 PM
I wouldn't have been surprised to see Fleming kill off Bond. He'd already shown at least a willingness or openness to the idea with the ending of FRWL. I think that, if done correctly, such an ending to the literary series could come across in a satisfying way.
#3
AMC Hornet
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Posted 19 March 2012 - 04:53 PM
Apparently Fleming had made a few hat-check notes - a paragraph scribbled here and there - that he'd intended to develop into his next novel.
Seriously, if you had a popular character that was making you money and elevating your profile, and all you had to do was crank out another story at your winter home in Jamaica, would you slay the golden goose? Fleming might have complained about the drudgery of writing and the quality of the films compared to his purple prose, but he must have at least enjoyed eclipsing his brother Peter.
Killing Bond in FRWL was never supposed to take; it was the ultimate cliffhanger.
Seriously, if you had a popular character that was making you money and elevating your profile, and all you had to do was crank out another story at your winter home in Jamaica, would you slay the golden goose? Fleming might have complained about the drudgery of writing and the quality of the films compared to his purple prose, but he must have at least enjoyed eclipsing his brother Peter.
Killing Bond in FRWL was never supposed to take; it was the ultimate cliffhanger.
#4
Mr. Blofeld
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Posted 19 March 2012 - 06:38 PM
If there's any the producers would like to use, they'd probably be in his scrapbook: http://jamesbond.ajb...o.uk/scrapbook/
#5
glidrose
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Posted 19 March 2012 - 08:17 PM
We all know Fleming didn't get to complete The Man With The Golden Gun
Not true. He did complete TMWTGG. Admittedly, he wasn't happy with it and wanted to revise it, but the point is he did complete it.
But I've always wondered. Did Fleming ever speak of what he actually had planned for Bond? Was he planning on writing more Bond books after Golden Gun? Did he ever make known of any unused story elements that he didn't get round to adapting?
Yeah, multiple sources report that he was fed up with Bond. No more Bond novels. And he couldn't bring himself to complete at least two short stories he'd begun.
A long time ago I spoke to someone who worked with Fleming in those two final years. He confirmed that by 1964 Fleming was fed up with Bond and that had Fleming lived - which wasn't bloody likely given his smoking and drinking - he would have written not another word about Bond. The people around him such as his publishers and agents couldn't motivate him to finish those two incomplete short stories. Apparently Fleming said he was set to burn them if anybody said another word to him about the subject.
#6
Bryce (003)
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Posted 19 March 2012 - 08:25 PM
Despite the fact that the titles have all been exhausted from the Fleming novels and most of the short stories, there are still bits to be gleaned. The AJB article includes quite a lot of it and is very well done BTW.
Amongst the various Bond lore out there, are the notions of the hidden scrapbook and many written, but cut scenes that Fleming wrote which includes plots and schemes and characters that do exist somewhere. Had old Ian lived on, he would have continued writing in the "here and now" into the 70's and 80's, it's often pondered what he would have done with the character. Gardner did a remarkable job doing just that IMO.
Cubby always looked ahead stating that Bond took place "five minutes into the future" for the cinematic 007.
I *think* that all the literary Bond concepts have been unearthed, but you never know.
Amongst the various Bond lore out there, are the notions of the hidden scrapbook and many written, but cut scenes that Fleming wrote which includes plots and schemes and characters that do exist somewhere. Had old Ian lived on, he would have continued writing in the "here and now" into the 70's and 80's, it's often pondered what he would have done with the character. Gardner did a remarkable job doing just that IMO.
Cubby always looked ahead stating that Bond took place "five minutes into the future" for the cinematic 007.
I *think* that all the literary Bond concepts have been unearthed, but you never know.
#7
Dustin
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Posted 19 March 2012 - 09:12 PM
Hard to tell what exactly Fleming had in mind for the future of Bond. The way he worked Fleming constantly noted down odd things, facts, ideas and whatever for further use. It's possible he's left behind quite a lot of material that nonetheless needn't be particularly focussed on Bond or possible further books.
Fact is, the writing itself became ever more difficult for him, yet he pulled himself together each year and tried his best to crank out another one. And the quality of the output remained high and in fact became even better the more Fleming freed himself from his own conventions. I suppose the closest Fleming came to ending the books was with an amnesic Bond lost somewhere on the Japanese coast, with the distant possibility of a wife and child. This could have been a kind of placable finale for a man who had to endure so much, the perfect ending. But Fleming didn't intend it to be this way.
Over the last two pages Bond recovers enough of his memory to recognise Vladivostok and Russia as vital parts of his past and decides to set out to find answers to the burning questions that keep nagging him. Had Fleming indeed intended to let Bond finally find a little peace with Kissy he could just as well have written 'and lived happily ever after.' But he decided Bond wasn't the type to let his past simply disappear in the fog of history and oblivion. The end of YOLT isn't Bond becoming a happy Japanese fisherman. It's Bond with the prospect of travelling to Vladivostok to try and get his memory back. That doesn't suggest Fleming saw Bond at the end of his way already.
That Fleming had ideas - splendid, lucid and imaginative ideas - can be seen at the beginning of TMWTGG. Unfortunately he didn't have the energy and time to fully realise all of them. He had been at supposedly dead ends before, and he was the first to admit his task had become ever more demanding with each new book. If his health had not been ailing he might have felt differently about this. But by this time Bond had become both for Fleming, a blessing and a curse. Perhaps the different remarks to other writers - Rex Stout, Len Deighton, Geoffrey Jenkins - about possible collaborations were more serious than the off-hand manner Fleming mentioned this in suggested? Impossible to know.
Fact is, the writing itself became ever more difficult for him, yet he pulled himself together each year and tried his best to crank out another one. And the quality of the output remained high and in fact became even better the more Fleming freed himself from his own conventions. I suppose the closest Fleming came to ending the books was with an amnesic Bond lost somewhere on the Japanese coast, with the distant possibility of a wife and child. This could have been a kind of placable finale for a man who had to endure so much, the perfect ending. But Fleming didn't intend it to be this way.
Over the last two pages Bond recovers enough of his memory to recognise Vladivostok and Russia as vital parts of his past and decides to set out to find answers to the burning questions that keep nagging him. Had Fleming indeed intended to let Bond finally find a little peace with Kissy he could just as well have written 'and lived happily ever after.' But he decided Bond wasn't the type to let his past simply disappear in the fog of history and oblivion. The end of YOLT isn't Bond becoming a happy Japanese fisherman. It's Bond with the prospect of travelling to Vladivostok to try and get his memory back. That doesn't suggest Fleming saw Bond at the end of his way already.
That Fleming had ideas - splendid, lucid and imaginative ideas - can be seen at the beginning of TMWTGG. Unfortunately he didn't have the energy and time to fully realise all of them. He had been at supposedly dead ends before, and he was the first to admit his task had become ever more demanding with each new book. If his health had not been ailing he might have felt differently about this. But by this time Bond had become both for Fleming, a blessing and a curse. Perhaps the different remarks to other writers - Rex Stout, Len Deighton, Geoffrey Jenkins - about possible collaborations were more serious than the off-hand manner Fleming mentioned this in suggested? Impossible to know.
#8
graric
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Posted 20 March 2012 - 01:56 PM
In Morecambe and Sterling's "Martini's Girls And Guns" they make reference to a Fleming story concept (presumably from the scrap book) talking about sending Bond to South America and dealing with a Dictator with a fascination with the occult (much like Live and Let Die in a way.)
Going from the evidence I'd say by the time of Man With The Golden Gun Fleming was actually quite interested in keeping Bond alive: he had a clear opportunity to leave Bond for good at the end of YOLT, another possible one with OHMSS ending and of course FRWL: he would have just seen FRWL do well as a film and saw the startof filming of GF (with the Bondmania that came after this I'm sure Fleming would have been more than willing to continue writing Bond for the foreseeable future, despite and previous complaints he had made)
Going from the evidence I'd say by the time of Man With The Golden Gun Fleming was actually quite interested in keeping Bond alive: he had a clear opportunity to leave Bond for good at the end of YOLT, another possible one with OHMSS ending and of course FRWL: he would have just seen FRWL do well as a film and saw the startof filming of GF (with the Bondmania that came after this I'm sure Fleming would have been more than willing to continue writing Bond for the foreseeable future, despite and previous complaints he had made)