18 replies to this topic

[DamnCoffee]

I think the Craig era is probably the most connected we've felt to a Bond era. Casino Royale had a brilliant cliffhanger, and even though Skyfall is unconnected, I still like to think that CR/QOS/SF have a very close personal timeline. I just can't help wonder if the Craig era should have a few more cliffhangers, something that can be resolved in the next film.

• From Russia With Love ending would be brilliant, with Bond getting poisoned.
• The Man With The Golden ending with Bond trying to assasinate M could also prove interesting.

Spoiler

I dunno. It's just ever since I've watched the latest episode of Sherlock, I've entertained myself with the thought of Bond faking his own death at the end of Skyfall to take him off the grid. I know it probably won't happen. But ever since i've seen those rooftops pics of shooting, and then this...

.... I couldn't resist. So my question is. Do you think the Craig era would benefit from some brilliant cliffhangers? Or do you think that it'd be easier for each movie just be an individual adventure? What cliffhangers would you like to see?

Edited by Mharkin, 19 February 2012 - 07:47 PM.

[David Schofield]

I think you're defeating your own argument here, Matthew.

You and I and, everyone else for that matter, know that the photos you've shown to NOT result in a cliffhanger as the end of the episode concerned showed.

Similarly, we ALL know James Bond will return. It would be very difficult, and probably quite childish, to try build any tension to suggest otherwise.

Craig-Bond drifting off on a balloon at the end of Craig's final film might be do able, however. But even if the new Bond could reappeared in a similar style to Fleming's in TMWTGG, we'd still know it would be Bond back again.

If only because we know those cash registers have got to keep on ringing.

[DamnCoffee]

I think you're defeating your own argument here, Matthew.

You and I and, everyone else for that matter, know that the photos you've shown to NOT result in a cliffhanger as the end of the episode concerned showed.

Yes, I know that. Just thought it might be interesting for a future Bond film to do something similar. Bond faking his own death to take himself off the radar, a memorial service is shown for Bond etc, then the final shot of the film, could be Bond watching over it, then walking off into the night. Don't think it would be too childish to build up tension, it would be just something different and interesting.

[PPK_19]

I think you're defeating your own argument here, Matthew.

You and I and, everyone else for that matter, know that the photos you've shown to NOT result in a cliffhanger as the end of the episode concerned showed.

Yes, I know that. Just thought it might be interesting for a future Bond film to do something similar. Bond faking his own death to take himself off the radar, a memorial service is shown for Bond etc, then the final shot of the film, could be Bond watching over it, then walking off into the night. Don't think it would be too childish to build up tension, it would be just something different and interesting.

Interesting idea but rather hackneyed, certainly ill-befitting of a Bond film. And it's been done a thousand times before; your example of that excellent episode of Sherlock the other day is but another reason why it wouldn't be embraced by the general public.

CR was departure enough for the series in terms of him not ending up with the girl at the end, killing the bad guy etc, i think people want to see Bond back at what he does best, without some over-the-top faking his death gimmick.

[Royal Dalton]

Casino Royale didn't end on a cliffhanger.

[007jamesbond]

I think we just want a traditional ending with Bond getting the girl like in the Sean Connery era......no cliffhanger unless necessary is needed as part of the film. I like the idea of Bond faking his death in order to go after Quantum

[David Schofield]

And another thing from my addled 46 year old mind.

Do I recall correctly that back in '85 wasn't there a rumour that Rog was going off a cliff, or doing something equally potentially fatal, at the end of end of AVTAK ('cos it was going to be his last film)?

And then we were all disappointed when the film ended with him copping off in the shower with Tanya Roberts (because we knew it left it open for Rog to return yyeeeeett again).

Or am I imagining that, fellow Bond oldies?

[AMC Hornet]

I remember nothing of the sort - I just remember watching Uncle Rog embarrass himself with Tanya "Sheena" Roberts, and wishing that he'd sailed off into the sunset with Maud Adams and left it at that.

News of his "resignation" came later (he and Cubby mutually agreed that he was too long in the tooth to try to wring any more credibility out of him in the role, but a retirement in writing was still required in order to move forward with recasting). I never heard that Sir Roger's Bond was slated to disappear mysteriously. Just as well, as TD's introduction was handled as a reboot for those who wanted one, or a continuation for those who didn't (rather the way I'd hoped CR would begin).

I'm just hoping that DC gets to have some fun this time around (TB/TSWLM fun, that is - not MR hysterics) and ends up with the girl. I think we're already headed back into a time where escapism is preferred over angst and character examination. How much more soul-searching can we expect from 007?

[larrythefatcat]

Wait, did you just spoil the ending of the second series of Sherlock?

...grrr...

Now it's been spoiled for me that Sherlock and Watson survived the ordeal from the end of the first series... thanks! :(

[DamnCoffee]

Now it's been spoiled for me that Sherlock and Watson survived the ordeal from the end of the first series... thanks! :(

But... there was a second series....

Of course they survived.

[Dustin]

I think you're defeating your own argument here, Matthew.

You and I and, everyone else for that matter, know that the photos you've shown to NOT result in a cliffhanger as the end of the episode concerned showed.

Yes, I know that. Just thought it might be interesting for a future Bond film to do something similar. Bond faking his own death to take himself off the radar, a memorial service is shown for Bond etc, then the final shot of the film, could be Bond watching over it, then walking off into the night. Don't think it would be too childish to build up tension, it would be just something different and interesting.

I actually like that general idea. Show Bond reading his own epitaph, then fold the paper and leave it on the table of a bistro or cafe; Bond then striding along a busy sidewalk together with a woman we've glimpsed time and again during the film. And explain nothing, don't even give a hint. It could be anything, from Bond going on his next mission - under deep cover - to him taking his leave and not wanting his phone to ring at three in the morning.

No idea how you start the next film though...

[DamnCoffee]

Probably have something along the lines of him getting forced back into work. Maybe Felix contacts him. The only other person who knows?

[Dustin]

Or let a louse-ridden stranger appear at Heathrow out of the cargo hold of Flight JAL 2007 from Tokio, the man being Bond and insisting to meet his boss. Personally.

Edited by Dustin, 17 January 2012 - 07:52 PM.

[PPK_19]

Wait, did you just spoil the ending of the second series of Sherlock?

...grrr...

Now it's been spoiled for me that Sherlock and Watson survived the ordeal from the end of the first series... thanks! :(

Are you simple?

[The Shark]

Wait, did you just spoil the ending of the second series of Sherlock?

...grrr...

Now it's been spoiled for me that Sherlock and Watson survived the ordeal from the end of the first series... thanks! :(

Are you simple?

Are you Robert Mugabe?

[PPK_19]

No, but apparently larrythefatcat is.

[Captain Tightpants]

Do you think the Craig era would benefit from some brilliant cliffhangers?

Just so long as they don't over-do it.

[Napoleon Solo]

Short answer to the original question, no. While MGM says it wants to get the series back to an every-other-year schedule, I don't think that's a certainty at all. Cliffhangers work if you know when you know when the next film is coming out. Next film might be out in 2, 3, or 4 years. We don't know.

[Pushkin]

Related to the issue of cliffhangers is the issue of story arcs. One of my major disappointments with the Craig era has been, or at least appears, that the producers did not work with some writers develop a story arc for the three films. CR was Bond begins, and I think it would have behooved them to work out how they were going to develop the character over three films - and better still, figure out how a story develops over three films (even if the last one is not a direct sequel to the first two). If in that story arc there is room for a cliff hanger, then that would be very interesting but putting in a cliff hanger without any real idea of how to resolve it is, IMHO, a mistake too many movies/TV shows make. If your going to have cliff hangers, It is important to ensure that the payoff is substantive and not cheap.

The biggest complaint I have with the Bond producers is that too often they have not developed a compelling story and that to me is the key part of creating a great film. Often, I think it's due to the fact they have not alloted enough time to develop a story. I have heard others on this forum, who are more knowledgeable than me, say that some of the initial treatments of Wade and Purvis have sometimes been quite good (I have never seen them so I can't really comment). But after Goldeneye, I found the rest of the Brosnan films (or at least most of each film) to be a little too much of a paint by numbers type of plot (conversally I thought Brosnan got better in his portrayal Bond). I always assumed the script quality was due to the writers and time constraints but perhaps its also due to some bad choices by the directors and/or producers.

When I saw CR, I thought great we are back to great stories and while I am not as down on QoS as some are, clearly Craig's comments of doing rewrites on the fly are concerning. I think CR benefited because it had a great Fleming story to start with and lots of time seems to have been developing it (that's my assumption but correct me if I am wrong). If we are truly back to a movie every 2 years then someone should be working away on the story (or a minimum, developing in a serious way options for story plots) for the next film now. To me, if more time and effort were put into the story, the movies would stand a better chance of being more consistent. And if stories were developed and thought it out, it would allow devices like cliff hangers to be used - perhaps to great effect. My 2 cents....

Edited by Pushkin, 21 February 2012 - 07:53 PM.