41 replies to this topic

[ACE]

The chorus of approval for X-Men First Class will become deafening in time.
And along with that, is the speculation that the creative elements behind it could graduate to do a future Bond. I think they're worth considering.

Yeah, lot of fuss about Fassbender. His young Erik Lensherr is an avenging Inglorious Basterd and Bondian to boot. Sure, his accent slips about a bit and the brogue breaks through, but he has a screen presence that will lead some to think him future Bond material. I personally don't.

And surely January Jones has to be a Bond woman at some point - she'd come complete with her own character name!

Chris Seagers' production design is most in tune to the promise of what his work could be on a modern Bond. The War Room steal from Strangelove was fun (nice to see it in colour) but what impressed me most was the Russian equivalent: very witty. Also, the Shaw's iSub was good. As was the malevolent cutaway in the beginning to reveal the Nazi experimentation lab adjoining Shaw's calm office - story, character, design in a single shot. That scene of Eric going crazy is a wonderful piece of screenwriting: disturbing, affecting and original.

Indeed, the writing in the film is superb. With a story by Brian Singer & Sheldon Turner, it's not surprising that there is careful connective tissue with previous, later films. And the final screenplay by Ashley Edward Miller &
Zack Stentz and Jane Goldman (aka Mrs Jonathan Ross) & Matthew Vaughn showcases lovely character beats, nice foreshadowing, wit and emotion and visual reversals galore. Especially good is historical and socio-political commentary laid in ("Mutant and proud") - all X-Men movies have this higher, profounder dimension. Bacon made for a convincing, nicely sketched villain and spoke German convincingly - a lovely aural reveal. The Swiss Banker encounter and South American assassination were overtly Bondian - i.e. throwaway slick/smart - or as Bondian as one can get involving superpowers. Clever seeding of ideas to be used in future films and the dialogue was clever, funny and lateral ("More tea vicar" was a classic). Great story points, well structured - the reveal of Shaw's plans comes properly two thirds in so we know what's at stake in the final act.

Must also mention the score from Henry Jackman (any relation?) - it was thematic with a few Vic Flick-ian guitar riffs.

There have been some great, bright, fun superhero movies recently. The first Iron Man, Spidey 1 and 2, even [gulp], the underrated Fantastic Four films. I'm a huge fan of ALL the X-Men movies to date (yes, even Last Stand - I don't count the overrated film and character, Wolverine - although his cameo here made me LOL) but this was an unexpected improvement, a cut above.

Shame it looks unlikely there'll be no sequel - I understand the idea was to set one in the 70's and 80's. If the writing is as good on those, we'd have been in for a treat. However, it seems from early figures, X-Men 1st Class has become Vaughn's third under-performing film in a row.

I know Vaughn has been vocal about not wanting to return to spy country but surely, if he wants to do it and could be accommodated by Eon/Sony, he would be a great choice to helm a future Bond. He has a relationship with Daniel Craig and now Sony may have confidence in the abilities of Vaughn more so than when they first looked at him in 2004 after his debut, Layer Cake.

Plus, he was once the son of Napoleon Solo...

[Chief of SIS]

I am not fully convinced Vaughn is the best choice for a Bond film. He may be a great choice but his work in 'First Class' didn't make me think he was the best. Sure, the film felt Bondian at times with January Jones' mid-section and all the globe-trotting but if you ask me Vaughn missed a chance to make those foreign places feel exotic which is half the excitement in Bond. There were plenty of chances to; Russia, England, Argentina, and the Cuban coast. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say that making the foreign settings in 'First Class' feel foreign is not as high as a priority as it is for Bond films. That being said, I remember I had to remind mind myself quite often of what foreign location I was in. I forgot we were in Soviet Russia for a minute during the film. You can go to town playing up 70's stereo-types of Soviet Russia in Hollywood. I think Bond film or not, you should. So yes, Vaughn had a nice chance to make a semi-Bondian film and while the film was good and exciting, just because he kind of did something like Bond doesn't mean for me that he should do Bond.

[Royal Dalton]

Plus, he was once the son of Napoleon Solo...

[coco1997]

ACE, what makes you think Fassbender would not be a suitable Bond?

[Royal Dalton]

Because he looks a bit demonic?

[Chief of SIS]

This guy has his demonic moments too...

...yet, he's awesome

Edited by Chief of SIS, 11 June 2011 - 12:14 AM.

[Harmsway]

Boy oh boy is the script terrible for FIRST CLASS. But given that it suffered heavy rewrites during production--FIRST CLASS was a kind of make-it-up-as-you-go-along affair--it's not surprising. Lousy dialogue and clunky character arcs abound.

Fassbender and McAvoy bring enough charisma to make the thing just about watchable, and the winks towards 1960s spy mania are welcome, if underused, but it's a film crowded with uninteresting and underdeveloped characters and so-so effects sequences.

[coco1997]

But given that it suffered heavy rewrites during production--FIRST CLASS was a kind of make-it-up-as-you-go-along affair--it's not surprising. Lousy dialogue and clunky character arcs abound.

Sounds like "Tomorrow Never Dies".

[marktmurphy]

Boy oh boy is the script terrible for FIRST CLASS. But given that it suffered heavy rewrites during production--FIRST CLASS was a kind of make-it-up-as-you-go-along affair--it's not surprising. Lousy dialogue and clunky character arcs abound.

Fassbender and McAvoy bring enough charisma to make the thing just about watchable, and the winks towards 1960s spy mania are welcome, if underused, but it's a film crowded with uninteresting and underdeveloped characters and so-so effects sequences.

Hello Harmsway; how good to see you on here again.

[Harmsway]

Just stopping by for a visit.

[univex]

Just stopping by for a visit.

Please do visit more often my friend. If only to make me visit more often as well.
People around here miss the old guard. I know I do.

[blueman]

Boy oh boy is the script terrible for FIRST CLASS. But given that it suffered heavy rewrites during production--FIRST CLASS was a kind of make-it-up-as-you-go-along affair--it's not surprising. Lousy dialogue and clunky character arcs abound.

Fassbender and McAvoy bring enough charisma to make the thing just about watchable, and the winks towards 1960s spy mania are welcome, if underused, but it's a film crowded with uninteresting and underdeveloped characters and so-so effects sequences.

Thought it was pretty awesome, writing, acting, directing, the works. Fassbender is great in it but Jennifer Lawrence (who I've never been a fan of) turns in one of the most rounded/deep/faceted comic book characters yet to hit the big screen. Also not sure why the written-during-production downgrade, some of the best films ever made were exactly that (for blockbusters, Jaws leaps to mind). First Class does what it does quite well for my money, best classic superhero film yet. JMHO.

[Harmsway]

Fassbender is great in it but Jennifer Lawrence (who I've never been a fan of) turns in one of the most rounded/deep/faceted comic book characters yet to hit the big screen.

Not only is Lawrence miscast, but her character, as written, doesn't make the slightest bit of sense.

Also not sure why the written-during-production downgrade, some of the best films ever made were exactly that (for blockbusters, Jaws leaps to mind).

The happy accidents of cinema history are greatly outweighed by the disasters.

[blueman]

Fassbender is great in it but Jennifer Lawrence (who I've never been a fan of) turns in one of the most rounded/deep/faceted comic book characters yet to hit the big screen.

Not only is Lawrence miscast, but her character, as written, doesn't make the slightest bit of sense.

Works for me.

Also not sure why the written-during-production downgrade, some of the best films ever made were exactly that (for blockbusters, Jaws leaps to mind).

The happy accidents of cinema history are greatly outweighed by the disasters.

Really? Bet there's a greater percentage of bad advcance-scripted movies (most films are made that way, and well most films aren't all that good...). In fact any film that turns out reasonably well could be said to be a happy accident, no matter how it came to be written. I'll judge each by what's on the screen, not how it got there (well, I'll try anyway).

[ACE]

Boy oh boy is the script terrible for FIRST CLASS. But given that it suffered heavy rewrites during production--FIRST CLASS was a kind of make-it-up-as-you-go-along affair--it's not surprising. Lousy dialogue and clunky character arcs abound.

Fassbender and McAvoy bring enough charisma to make the thing just about watchable, and the winks towards 1960s spy mania are welcome, if underused, but it's a film crowded with uninteresting and underdeveloped characters and so-so effects sequences.

Harms, I recall you being a comic-book connoisseur with the high standards that would entail. You were similarly dismissive of Iron Man and The Dark Knight and Watchmen, no?

Can you enlighten us on why the script was terrible, the clunky character arcs, the underdeveloped characters and the so-so effects?
What would you liked to have seen?
What is your view on the X-Men franchise in general?
What are your favourite comic book movies?

ACE, what makes you think Fassbender would not be a suitable Bond?

Nothing but a gut instinct, coco1997. His accent is a problem (slips through here, overdone in Inglorious), a lack of elan, perhaps - my same objections to Clive Owen in the role. I'm sure he could play 007 (Craig-style) but the new Bond tends to be a reaction from the previous one. I think Fassbender's a great actor and I enjoy his performances a lot and, of course, I could see him being Bond. Just not my personal cup of tea, s'all.

[Harmsway]

Harms, I recall you being a comic-book connoisseur with the high standards that would entail. You were similarly dismissive of Iron Man and The Dark Knight and Watchmen, no?

My thoughts on the three: IRON MAN is mediocre, formulaic stuff elevated by a charismatic lead, THE DARK KNIGHT is an unusually interesting Hollywood blockbuster, and WATCHMEN is a fascinating but crippled epic with brief moments that far outshine anything in other superhero films.

Can you enlighten us on why the script was terrible, the clunky character arcs, the underdeveloped characters and the so-so effects?

The script is clunky because it forces too much into the film in its desperation to get us to the "status quo" of the franchise by the end of the film. All these developments should have taken more time, been doled out over at least two films (three would have been ideal). Here,characters make extreme decisions at the drop of a hat. But a real culprit is the dialogue, which is pretty forgettable, and so we have plenty of would-be character moments, but none that ever shine.

The clunky character arcs? Mostly, I'm thinking of Mystique, who we are led to believe is Professor X's sister equivalent, pining for him, which is all well and good. But then, as the film goes on, she's expected to take greater leaps, to the point where she not only leaves Professor X, but leaves him just when his ex-best friend has severed his spinal column. Yeah, not gonna buy it. Her relationship with Magneto required significantly more expansion. (And while we're on that note, the film scarcely gives her an opportunity to really do much with her powers; this is supposed to be a take-off on spy flicks, but the film fails to utilize the character with one of the most useful powers for espionage.)

Underdeveloped characters? I point you to everybody who isn't Professor X and Magneto (and even then, they could afford more character beats; we should have seen more of Professor X, especially). The kids scarcely register. Not that we'd want them to, mind you, since they're pretty lame. Sebastian Shaw, played by a deliciously hammy Kevin Bacon, never gets a moment to elevate himself to great villain status. And then there are the humans themselves, who might as well not be here. Why the film keeps dragging Rose Byrne's Moira around with the X-Men when it has no interest in giving her attention is beyond me.

The climax is where the slighter effects budget really shows. Of course, we've seen a taste of that before in the film--for example, Mystique and Beast's make-up looks downright terrible--but here, the effects just can't support this massive climax. Of course, the animators have been called on to animate some deeply silly stuff (Banshee's "flying" and that awful dragonfly girl, whatever her name is). The sequence wants to make us gasp at the scale, but to inspire us with awe, the sequence really needed stronger effects work.

What would you liked to have seen?

A film about Magneto/Professor X/Mystique working for the CIA, loaded with colorful 1960s spy mania and Cold War intrigue, on a smaller, more intimate scale. This film works best during its first third. The rest of the film should have been more like that. As soon as the kids come in, quality starts to take a dip.

What is your view on the X-Men franchise in general?

Not a very strong franchise, but X2: X-MEN UNITED is a finely-crafted, economical blockbuster that's something of a minor genre classic, like STAR TREK: THE WRATH OF KHAN. I watched it the other day and was deeply impressed by how well that film carries itself and handles the difficulty of developing a large ensemble of characters. The legacy of THE LAST STAND and WOLVERINE have greatly hurt its reputation, but really, it blows pretty much every other Marvel superhero flick right out of the water.

What are your favourite comic book movies?

No film better than OLDBOY has ever been made from a comic book. Other than that, I veer towards a few animated features: GHOST IN THE SHELL, GHOST IN THE SHELL 2: INNOCENCE, and BATMAN: MASK OF THE PHANTASM. And I have time for THE DARK KNIGHT, X2, and SCOTT PILGRIM VS. THE WORLD.

[blueman]

God I hate emo.

[ACE]

Harms, I recall you being a comic-book connoisseur with the high standards that would entail. You were similarly dismissive of Iron Man and The Dark Knight and Watchmen, no?

My thoughts on the three: IRON MAN is mediocre, formulaic stuff elevated by a charismatic lead, THE DARK KNIGHT is an unusually interesting Hollywood blockbuster, and WATCHMEN is a fascinating but crippled epic with brief moments that far outshine anything in other superhero films.

Can you enlighten us on why the script was terrible, the clunky character arcs, the underdeveloped characters and the so-so effects?

The script is clunky because it forces too much into the film in its desperation to get us to the "status quo" of the franchise by the end of the film. All these developments should have taken more time, been doled out over at least two films (three would have been ideal). Here,characters make extreme decisions at the drop of a hat. But a real culprit is the dialogue, which is pretty forgettable, and so we have plenty of would-be character moments, but none that ever shine.

The clunky character arcs? Mostly, I'm thinking of Mystique, who we are led to believe is Professor X's sister equivalent, pining for him, which is all well and good. But then, as the film goes on, she's expected to take greater leaps, to the point where she not only leaves Professor X, but leaves him just when his ex-best friend has severed his spinal column. Yeah, not gonna buy it. Her relationship with Magneto required significantly more expansion. (And while we're on that note, the film scarcely gives her an opportunity to really do much with her powers; this is supposed to be a take-off on spy flicks, but the film fails to utilize the character with one of the most useful powers for espionage.)

Underdeveloped characters? I point you to everybody who isn't Professor X and Magneto (and even then, they could afford more character beats; we should have seen more of Professor X, especially). The kids scarcely register. Not that we'd want them to, mind you, since they're pretty lame. Sebastian Shaw, played by a deliciously hammy Kevin Bacon, never gets a moment to elevate himself to great villain status. And then there are the humans themselves, who might as well not be here. Why the film keeps dragging Rose Byrne's Moira around with the X-Men when it has no interest in giving her attention is beyond me.

The climax is where the slighter effects budget really shows. Of course, we've seen a taste of that before in the film--for example, Mystique and Beast's make-up looks downright terrible--but here, the effects just can't support this massive climax. Of course, the animators have been called on to animate some deeply silly stuff (Banshee's "flying" and that awful dragonfly girl, whatever her name is). The sequence wants to make us gasp at the scale, but to inspire us with awe, the sequence really needed stronger effects work.

What would you liked to have seen?

A film about Magneto/Professor X/Mystique working for the CIA, loaded with colorful 1960s spy mania and Cold War intrigue, on a smaller, more intimate scale. This film works best during its first third. The rest of the film should have been more like that. As soon as the kids come in, quality starts to take a dip.

What is your view on the X-Men franchise in general?

Not a very strong franchise, but X2: X-MEN UNITED is a finely-crafted, economical blockbuster that's something of a minor genre classic, like STAR TREK: THE WRATH OF KHAN. I watched it the other day and was deeply impressed by how well that film carries itself and handles the difficulty in dealing with and developing a large ensemble of characters. The legacy of THE LAST STAND and WOLVERINE have greatly hurt its reputation, but really, it blows pretty much every other Marvel superhero flick right out of the water.

What are your favourite comic book movies?

No film better than OLDBOY has ever been made from a comic book. Other than that, I veer towards a few animated features: GHOST IN THE SHELL, GHOST IN THE SHELL 2: INNOCENCE, and BATMAN: MASK OF THE PHANTASM. And I have time for THE DARK KNIGHT, X2, and SCOTT PILGRIM VS. THE WORLD.

Brill. Thanks Harms.

[Safari Suit]

God I hate emo.

Que?

[Royal Dalton]

Emo Philips. The high-voiced comedian.

[Safari Suit]

Then I disagree. Can be a little hard to take certainly, but he has some good one-liners.

[blueman]

God I hate emo.

Que?

X2 is the X-Men filtered through Oprah, some nice nuggets of action but the characters are all sops and spend most of the film acting like teenagers. Meh (much prefer something like the Twilight films, where at least it's teenagers acting like teenagers). And TDK is just useless, really hate Nolan's emo-boy take on Batman. For both those films, a very well fleshed out bad idea is still a bad idea.

Me and Harms are definitely on different planets when it comes to genre likes/dislikes, and IMO the writing-as-one-goes approach is nothing to hold against any film, just depends on who's doing the writing/directing: Gottlieb/Spielberg created something magical with Jaws, Zetumer/Forster fashioned the best Bond film since the 60s, and Goldman/Vaughn totally nailed what the cinematic equivalent of a superhero comic book should be. IMHO of course.

[coco1997]

And TDK is just useless, really hate Nolan's emo-boy take on Batman.

I take it you're not a fan of the Batman comics, then?

[blueman]

And TDK is just useless, really hate Nolan's emo-boy take on Batman.

I take it you're not a fan of the Batman comics, then?

Grew up on Batman comics. Trying to remember the one wherein the World's Greatest Detective asked somebody, how does that work? Also the one wherein young Wayne went to bumfreak-nowhere to kill himself cuz his feelings had a boo-boo. Nolan built his Wayne/Batman around inherently un-Wayne/Batman attributes, how could I not despise it? Then he goes and makes a film about Gotham supposedly needing its Dark Knight, only to have not one but two boatloads of Gothamites in a physical/ethical jam do just fine without him, or without even referencing him. The man can't tell a coherent or meaningful Batman story, screws up basic character motivations (or just eliminates them i.e. the Joker), and cast the most un-Wayne/Batman actor imaginable as Wayne/Batman (watching Bale move through those films is like watching bread dough rising, except with the dough I know at least I'll get some toast out of it).

I know I know, minority POV (perhaps even of one?). But I did like Vaughn's X-Men film, seemed quite a bit of alright to me.

[jaguar007]

and cast the most un-Wayne/Batman actor imaginable as Wayne/Batman (watching Bale move through those films is like watching bread dough rising, except with the dough I know at least I'll get some toast out of it).

You know, I sort of agree with you. I'm not a huge comic book person, but if I recall reading them from my youth, Bruce Wayne was well respected in the community. Bale's Bruce Wayne reminds me more of an irresponsible playboy. A bit more like Tony Stark

[Zorin Industries]

X MEN FIRST CLASS

X MEN FIRST CLASS is a sonar breath of amazingly fresh air. THE LAST STAND was not that bad a third outing. It is certainly not as overblown as it could have been and is sort of pre-dates the Xavier/Erik shenanigans of FIRST CLASS. But FIRST CLASS is a superb piece of matinee fun – and a massive leap towards brilliance for the future of this franchise and maybe even comic book films. As the Marvel AVENGERS multi film project gathers pace (which may ultimately see the quality of the films involved lose momentum), this is the new benchmark – and that notch is a big cool, cocksure “X”.

Aside from the striking production design (all LIVE AND LET DIE secret bar booths, Ken Adam war rooms aplenty and a glorious 1970’s Euan Lloyd notion of Russian mansions as lensed in Buckinghamshire during freezing Novembers) and character sass (January Jones’ EMMA FROST is deliciously presented at every turn and gets this year’s prize for How To Enter A Scene And Steal It Every Time Awards – as well as maybe Best Supporting Costumes), as well as a simpler, less harrowed and political look at being a Mutant, the most stunning element of X MEN FIRST CLASS is its total confidence. The whole film is constantly moving. It loads itself with simple and well executed action (MAGNETO strangling a villain’s super-yacht with chains is a cracking sequence – all monitored through the story – remember that when films had set pieces that were about the story?!) and the fleet based finale literally soars. How refreshing to see a film that purports to be an action blockbuster but actually didn’t feature that many set pieces. The action and drive was there in Vaughn’s telling of the story. Vaughn and his designers put the bombast and blast into the sets, editing, scoring and attitude of this film.

Naturally FIRST CLASS has lashings of style and retro cool – but not too much. It’s just rich in the right places – how characters arrive in a scene, how one simple beat of design or blocking tells you exactly where we are with motivations and backgrounds (check out the simple cut to the other side of a Nazi office – with its knives and death paraphernalia laid out with cruel foreboding) and how not every character needs to turn out to be a double-agent. CIA allies remain that. There is no change of allegiance in the third act for lazy dramatic sake.

Yes, Fassbender’s early scenes are all Connery Cool (with just the tiniest of nods to Peter Sellers arriving in forested Euro locales in the Pink Panther movies – maybe!) but this is no 007 audition tape. Despite the turtle necks and knife-holding wetsuits, Fassbender is not Bond. He will be a brilliant screen presence for years to come. He is Britain’s new Steve McQueen. And McQueen was no 007. ERIK’s switch towards The Dark Side a tad too easily (FIRST CLASS may have benefitted from not having everything in place for the X MEN world we know of). At the hands of James McEvoy and Fassbender, the strength of ERIK / XAVIER’s friendship is stronger than MAGNETO’s will for villainy so the last beats felt rushed.

And before all that, the ERIK / XAVIER dynamic is a new buddy device not always explored very successfully in comic book films (if at all). But the moments of them touring the globe for Mutants like a pair of naughty schoolboys with a bit of money are so brilliantly done and reminds us of what these type of films have long lost sight if in the wake of BATMAN FOREVER BEGINNING AGAIN AT KNIGHT and the nastily misogynistic and, frankly, quite dull WATCHMEN – i.e. have fun! Having accidentally caught a bit of Christopher Nolan’s first round of BATMAN at the weekend, it is very easy to see how the likes of FIRST CLASS and Matt Vaughn are the new pretenders to the anti-mind reading crowns.

Henry Jackman’s score is easily one of the best action film scores for the last ten years with its John Barry Cold War plectrum at the ready and a melodic drive even John Williams has lost sight of in recent years. Take That’s closing credits song is possibly quite excellent and not the Happy Meal tie-in closing songs in franchises have sadly become.

To conclude, one of the most appealing successes of this film is that it is both not falling over itself to bleat on about the woes of being a Mutant. Secondly, this so still a Matt Vaughn film. He hasn’t been trampled on by the might of a franchise. So amidst all the hyperbole of being a Mutant we have his stock nightclubs and backroom private dancers all lending a very British – even London based – mentality to the whole thing. Time will tell if FIRST CLASS becomes, er, SECOND CLASS – but there is nothing to suggest it will not be anything other than a class act.

[blueman]

Anybody else wishing Vaughn had directed CR? Sigh.

[Loomis]

Anybody else wishing Vaughn had directed CR?

No. Martin Campbell gave us a CASINO ROYALE that's practically perfect.

No film better than OLDBOY has ever been made from a comic book.

Interesting observation. I don't disagree, and I'd also say that from what I've read of the comics the film seems a huge improvement on its source material.

[Bucky]

Anybody else wishing Vaughn had directed CR? Sigh.

Would be interesting to see what he would have done interesting. I am personally glad he has been able to work on Stardust and Kick- before moving into doing a large studio film like X-Men. While he might have done well on Casino Royale, it would have been a huge jump directly from Layer Cake.

[Safari Suit]

God I hate emo.

Que?

X2 is the X-Men filtered through Oprah, some nice nuggets of action but the characters are all sops and spend most of the film acting like teenagers. Meh (much prefer something like the Twilight films, where at least it's teenagers acting like teenagers). And TDK is just useless, really hate Nolan's emo-boy take on Batman. For both those films, a very well fleshed out bad idea is still a bad idea.

Me and Harms are definitely on different planets when it comes to genre likes/dislikes, and IMO the writing-as-one-goes approach is nothing to hold against any film, just depends on who's doing the writing/directing: Gottlieb/Spielberg created something magical with Jaws, Zetumer/Forster fashioned the best Bond film since the 60s, and Goldman/Vaughn totally nailed what the cinematic equivalent of a superhero comic book should be. IMHO of course.

Interesting, thanks. See if I were to guess I would have said you were talking about Scott Pilgrim!