111 replies to this topic

[Capsule in Space]

And of course we do not learn about the activities of the typical Bond villain aimed at the other side and helped along by ours.

That type of villain wouldn't be considered a villain, but rather a Cold War ally!

[Capsule in Space]

I think Moore did show a tough/gritty side at points throughout his tenure as some have pointed out. But, he was also very good with the playboy-style interpretation. It wasn't until OP when everything became a punchline, he definitely showed some toughness in LALD-FYEO.

And even in Moonraker, the silliest of them all, he has his "tough" moments. Sir Roger is a well rounded performer who gets a lot of grief that is unwarranted.

[robdread]

Much as I love Roger (and he is my favorite), he'd have been too old to make TLD work, a fact which to his credit he acknowledged himself.

The one part that might work *better* is the death warrant issued against the Russian general. But only if the general had been Gogol and not Pushkin. Their history together would have added weight to Bond and M's scene near the start, with Bond openly skeptical and M feeling somewhat pained to have to order the death of a man he's teamed with before, and angry with Bond for making it even harder. I'm not at all sure Roger could have pulled off the scene in the hotel where it looks -- for an instant -- like he's ready to shoot the general, but it would have been all kinds of awesome to see him try to pull it off in a serious way. Even without Roger, and with all due respect to the great John Rhys-Davies, the film really needed Gogol there in place of Pushkin, a character we'd never even met.

Otherwise, Roger's presence would have hobbled the film, honestly. We wouldn't have believed even briefly that he might shoot Kara in Bratislava. More importantly, the romance angle -- with Bond falling for a naive young cellist -- would have taken on a creepy tone. Kara is one Bond girl who *must* be young to work at all...otherwise she's not a "youthful innocent," just a twit. Having a 60-ish Roger woo a 20-something Kara would have been just wrong; better to have left him in the arms of Octopussy, an equal in sophistication and relative equal in age.

A lot of the success of TLD has to do with the physicality of it; Dalton gives us a tougher, more limber and active Bond, which is where they'd obviously been trying to take the films since FYEO. It just wasn't a style that suited Roger's approach, and without it, you're left with the convoluted arms-for-drugs plot we got anyway, only without the believable action scenes to break it up here and there. I think it would have ended up a snoozer at best.

I love Dalton's performance in THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS, but I do believe that Moore could have done the film, with just a few tweaks to the script. Done correctly, THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS might have been his second FOR YOUR EYES ONLY but even better. It could have been a classy and rather poignant climax for the Moore era (much as I love A VIEW TO A KILL, it is neither of those things).

I slightly disagree with you on the "physicality" of THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS - about the only action scene I can think of that would have seemed utterly absurd for Moore at the time is the opening parachute jump. Most of the action in the film hinges on scenes of Bond driving, flying or just shooting people, all of which would have been perfectly believable (relatively speaking, at least) for Moore. And there's plenty of emphasis on good old-fashioned surveillance and spying, which would have suited the 60-year-old Moore quite well.

With the Bond/Kara relationship desexualised and rewritten along Bibi Dahl lines (albeit with less goofy humour), Gogol instead of Pushkin, and maybe a Pola Ivanova-style older woman for 007 to dally with at some point, as well as few other alterations, then, yes, I think Moore could have done THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS and acquitted himself very well. The poignancy referred to above would have come from the suggestion that an ageing Bond sees protecting Kara as his one last shot at redemption.

Another thing about THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS (although it certainly wasn't apparent when the film was released) is that it has an end-of-an-era flavour, being the last of the Cold War Bond outings (although LICENCE TO KILL was released when the USSR still existed and was still active in Afghanistan, it doesn't really count since it completely ignores Cold War politics). Which would have added to its suitability as Moore's final outing.

Having Moore be more of a protector to Kara in The Living Daylights is an interesting idea I hadn't thought of. I could easily see him pulling it off and it would have given him an added poignancy in his departure from the role.
Having said that, I think Dalton was great in the movie.

[rnblover1971]

It's really hard to say, because the script of TLD, as we saw it in the theatres in 1987, was written especially for Timothy Dalton, so the movie was tailored made for Dalton.

I was a teenager back in the 80s and I kept myself well-read on Bond. As a firsthand witness at the time, even though he was getting too old for the role, Roger Moore was still THE MAN when it came to James Bond, and was still very popular as 007 even after AVTAK was released in 1985. That movie, as I remember, was still a financial (if not critical) success back in the day and Roger's star definitely wasn't waning by a long shot.

If he were to star in TLD, people wouldn't have minded, and I'm very sure that people would have still flocked to the theatres to see him in it, and it would have still made box office gold like all of his Bond movies since TSWLM. He wouldn't be as believable due to his age, but then again, how much of 007's world is believable anyway!

[Colorshade]

I suspect there might be another thread about this, but:
The funny thing is that Roger looks (much) older in AVTAK than OP. I think it's obvious that he had surgery of some sort on his face. He looks constantly surprised and has lost some of his characteristics. He may have more droopy eyes and a few more wrinkles in OP, but he looks better!
Actually, it's in a deleted scene he looks his best: The one where he reclaims his stuff from the police station in France. Hilarious acting, too. http://www.youtube.c...qe9S-fI#t=0m24s
Maybe it is because of his somewhat shorter hair! Since he got longer hair from FYEO to AVTAK, I associate longer hair with olderness!

Oh, and no way should he do another film after AVTAK. Just for the beginning of TLD; Roger couldn't hold that big gun for his life, much less fire with it.

Edited by Colorshade, 28 August 2011 - 01:58 AM.

[Ozzman313]

Stand up comedians and late night talk shows host would've had new material for about a year. Plus it would no doubt have hurt Rogers appeal as a James Bond.

[Colorshade]

I'd say the (Paris) car chase scene was much worse... I think the police station was a nice gag, nothing too much.

Edited by Colorshade, 24 September 2011 - 01:48 PM.

[robertcampbell]

Sir Roger should have called it quits after "For your eyes only".The "realistic" tempo of the film(after the outlandish "Moonraker") was the perfect springboard for Dalton's "The Living Daylights"."Octopussy" was a cartoonish Bond in the same mold as "MNRKR".Consider the elephant tail cover in the pre-credits scene,the "tarzan" yell,the aligator sub,the clown disguise...and the less said of "AVTAK"-the better.
The Beach Boys in a Bond chase soundtrack?...I don't think so.

[Walking_My_Rat]

Personally I think Dalton in A View to a Kill is the more interesting possibility. Although I love that movie because of the sheer incongruity of seeing Moore facing off against Christopher Walken, I think it may have been a more dynamic first movie for Tim. One thing I've never seen discussed- was anyone else in the frame to play Bond in A View to a Kill? I know Broccoli came close to recasting Roger in Octopussy, but in that case there was a compelling reason against- the threat from Connery. Why did they keep him on for A View to a Kill?

Also, this is my first post!

[Secret Treaties]

If he were to star in TLD, people wouldn't have minded, and I'm very sure that people would have still flocked to the theatres to see him in it, and it would have still made box office gold like all of his Bond movies since TSWLM. He wouldn't be as believable due to his age, but then again, how much of 007's world is believable anyway!

You hit on an interesting point, but the fantasy of Bond's world has to abide by certain rules or else it veers into self-parody. All films, particularly genre pictures, rely on the viewer suspending disbelief to draw them into their fictional world. I would suggest that a near geriatric Roger Moore playing Bond in 1985 was akin to seeing the zipper on the monster's suit.

[DamnCoffee]

You know something, after looking at this thread and wondering myself, I actually do think Moore might just be able to pull it off. I can see him protecting Kara, the caring side of Moore's Bond came to light in For Your Eyes Only. Not to say that it would be a better film, Dalton was great. Moore might just have had one more film left in him.

[Aries Walker]

I'm no big fan of Roger Moore's - I think he should have packed it in after For Your Eyes Only - but I'm very glad that he didn't stay on for The Living Daylights. He was already looking old and stiff in A View to a Kill, and to do one more after that would have been farcical. They could have theoretically gone the "aging spy" route, but that would have redefined the character in a way that I'm just as glad they didn't.

[SecretAgentFan]

SIr Roger in TLD... No. I think every Bond actor (or any actor in a long running series) can explore the character only for so long until he repeats himself. AVTAK was a perfect ending for Moore´s tenure, giving him the chance to play Bond as an aging man. What angle would have been left for him after that?

Since Sir Roger was the actor through which I first encountered Bond he will always be a favorite of mine. And I do like and have come to reappreciate his later Bonds OP and AVTAK. But I always wonder whether he should have stopped after FYEO... or even after MR. Dalton deserved more Bond films than he got. He would have been great in FYEO, OP and AVTAK, IMO.

[Jim]

You know something, after looking at this thread and wondering myself, I actually do think Moore might just be able to pull it off. I can see him protecting Kara,

At that difference in ages, it wouldn't be caring; it would be grooming.

Bad enough that the thickly 'tached Havelock has to peel off in front of her Grandfather at the end of For Your Eyes Only. Eww.

[007RogerMoore]

I think it could have worked for an absolute last time, but really I think it was time for him to leave. Bond is not supposed to be 60.
But I think the movie would be better with Moore in it (Dalton did a good job, and I like the film, but it probably would have been more like its three predecessors than what it turned out to be. Those were more to my liking than TLD).

[SteveBolton]

As much as i love the Moore movies i think FYEO should have been his last outing, he pulled it off (Just) in Octopussy. I like AVTAK but would of enjoyed seeing a younger Bond in it, it would of made the final scenes with Christopher Walken more tense.

[mttvolcano]

Now...next threat, what if he stayed for Licence to Kill? haha (joking!)

[robdread]

SIr Roger in TLD... No. I think every Bond actor (or any actor in a long running series) can explore the character only for so long until he repeats himself. AVTAK was a perfect ending for Moore´s tenure, giving him the chance to play Bond as an aging man. What angle would have been left for him after that?

Since Sir Roger was the actor through which I first encountered Bond he will always be a favorite of mine. And I do like and have come to reappreciate his later Bonds OP and AVTAK. But I always wonder whether he should have stopped after FYEO... or even after MR. Dalton deserved more Bond films than he got. He would have been great in FYEO, OP and AVTAK, IMO.

I respect what you're saying and I think you're right ... to a degree. I thought Roger was very strong in Octopussy. He did a fine job with the age element in AVTAK, but the script and other elements just never seemed to come together. Having said that, it would have been intriguing, and a legitimate, idea to have Moore as an older Bond in "Living Daylights." It's something he could have pulled off with great poignancy and grace. Granted, I loved Dalton in his two movies. Maybe, it's because, like you, Roger was my first Bond. You know the saying ... you never forget your first.

[glidrose]

Moore in TLD? Oh god no. Please spare me. He was already too old for AVTAK and I genuinely like that film.

[tdalton]

Now...next threat, what if he stayed for Licence to Kill? haha (joking!)

That's actually something that I would have been very interested to see. I dont' mean Roger Moore actually playing Bond in LTK in 1989, as he would have been far too old at that point (and he was already pushing it in AVTAK, another few years wouldn't have helped I don't think). But, I would have liked to have seen Moore try a Bond film in a similar style to LTK. He showed some flashes of that kind of Bond in TMWTGG, where his take on the character often came across as ridiculously arrogant and he sometimes displayed a harshness that wasn't seen at any other time during his tenure in the role. I think if he could have channeled some of those qualities from his TMWTGG performance and take them even further, he might have fared pretty well in a Bond film like LTK.

Even if it turned out to be a complete failure, it still would have been something interesting to see. He showed in both TMWTGG and FYEO that he had the dramatic chops to make me think it might have been at least in the realm of possibility that he could pull off such a Bond film.

[mttvolcano]

Now...next threat, what if he stayed for Licence to Kill? haha (joking!)

That's actually something that I would have been very interested to see. I dont' mean Roger Moore actually playing Bond in LTK in 1989, as he would have been far too old at that point (and he was already pushing it in AVTAK, another few years wouldn't have helped I don't think). But, I would have liked to have seen Moore try a Bond film in a similar style to LTK. He showed some flashes of that kind of Bond in TMWTGG, where his take on the character often came across as ridiculously arrogant and he sometimes displayed a harshness that wasn't seen at any other time during his tenure in the role. I think if he could have channeled some of those qualities from his TMWTGG performance and take them even further, he might have fared pretty well in a Bond film like LTK.

Even if it turned out to be a complete failure, it still would have been something interesting to see. He showed in both TMWTGG and FYEO that he had the dramatic chops to make me think it might have been at least in the realm of possibility that he could pull off such a Bond film.

Yeah exactly what I was thinking. It may have been a good twist on his FYEO moment where he told her before one sets out on revenge you must first dig two graves. It would make for a good irony and arrogant hypocrisy of the character, which came out a little bit when he knocked Locke off the edge.
I can bet if he did make a film like that he would have disliked it beyond even AVTAK

Edited by mttvolcano, 22 March 2012 - 06:45 PM.

[Golden Claw]

Rodge in TLD? "Ve name'f Bond, Granpa Bond. Now, where'f my walking ftick and falf teef?"

As it is, his 80s love scenes had an Electra Complex feel to them. And as for his army of stuntmen, no comment.