3 replies to this topic

[Jim]

And no, this isn't "must be because they're both rubbish", not that at all; please play that game elsewhere.

Few years ago, zencat produced an enthralling article about incidents from the Gardners ever-so-uncannily cropping up in the films; I just wondered if we could go further and consider if TWINE is a film imbued with Gardnery-goodness, not just the odd incident here and there.

Just struck me that we have a slightly more mature Bond, ostensibly haunted by his past, subjected to circumstances where the motives and methods of the intelligence service are a bit shaky, shady minor characters with shifting loyalties, a big traitor previously trusted completely, someone initially presented as a big villain who isn't quite as villainous as initially made out and (OK, this is a specific incident - SeaFire I think) - a climax aboard a submarine being used to create an ecological disaster to the villain's gain.

This may not stand up to much greater scrutiny, but it did amuse me to think that, without explicitly adapting a book, the films have given us something plausibly Gardneresque.

[Simon]

Oh dear. This seems reminiscent of the sort of thread I tried to start in the past which everyone resolutely ignored, to my ever burgeoning chagrin.

A great point that 'just must' inspire debate, while all around you people are discussing with gusto who should be the Bond girl in Bond 32.

Perhaps people's initial enthusiasms at being able to be the first to inscribe, 'cos they're both crap' messages were deflated at having had the floor whipped out from under them at the first hurdle.

As they click into the thread, you can just picture them all going, 'Oh, cock.'

Sorry Jim. For me, as a positive slant, premises outweighed executions in both mediums. Pretenders to the throne. While the ideas were plausibly great, they needed a 'finisher' to bring them to the table. Perhaps the scrutiny is a non starter after 22 films and 35 books as all ideas will borrow from others and we start to see things where there is nothing to see.

Clearly, from the above, you can see I have nothing to add to this particular thread. But at least it is now not wafting in the wind looking for some attention or a partner.

Cheers.

[Jim]

I love you.

And, true, I might be viewing things that aren't there; but I did consider there to be thematic consistencies rather than (say) the odd nod here and there.

[Single-O-Seven]

I never really noticed it before, Jim, but you seem to have a point insofar as The World is Not Enough is more like a Gardner read than any of the other films. Whether that was a conscious decision on the part of the writers I can't say for certain, but Gardner has had small influences throughout the series before, as Zen's article points out. The deeper, more reflective and mature Bond is apparent, especially in the scene when Electra asks him if has ever lost a loved one. Watching the way Brosnan squirms and avoids the question reminds me of a passage from a Gardner book. I can't recall which one, as it's been years since I read it, but M coldly makes some remark about how Bond will make a good husband to somebody one day. Like in TWINE, Bond squirms with inward discomfort as he reflects on Tracy, but says nothing and happily allows the subject to change.

I would love to see some of Gardner's material make it to the screen in the future, though a lot less subtley than it has in the past. Some of the books, or combinations of various books, would make good fodder for Craig to handle.

An interesting point of discussion, Jim. Thanks.