20 replies to this topic

[dlb007]

One of the major letdowns - in my opinion - of the John Gardner series of Bond novels was the lack of great villains. The first three novels had somewhat memorable villains, with it tapering off greatly after that, though Scorpius was okay. Brokenclaw was a decent one as well, as was Wolfie Weissen. Dragonpol, eh, he was okay. So, in your opinion: who was the best Villain in John Gardner's Bond novels and why do you think so?

[zencat]

Brokenclaw would get my vote. I also liked Anton Murik (LR) and Markus Bismaquer (FSS). David Drangonpol (NSF) was also good.

[Jim]

Whilst I am awfully fond of the books, especially the first few, I would agree with the basic sentiment that memorable villains were a bit hard to come by. I suspect the fondness for doublytriplytwista-go-go made every other character a potential villain and therefore diluted the impact of the ostensible Big Bad.

Brokenclaw is memorable, even if the book's poor. Same for Scorpius, same view of the book. I suppose they benefit from having their name in the title. I cannot for the life of me remember without looking it up the names of the main villains in SeaFire and The Man from Barbarossa but suspect it's some Nazis or this week's version of the old KGB. Struggling a bit with No Deals, Mr Bond, too. Russians again, probably.

And what was the thing JayGee had for alliterative names? Books are full of them.

Bassam Baradj, that's it. Or was that Win, Lose or Die?

[zencat]

Actually, the villain in SeaFire, Max Tarn, is pretty menacing. And, yes, he is a Neo Nazi.

[Jim]

Actually, the villain in SeaFire, Max Tarn, is pretty menacing. And, yes, he is a Neo Nazi.

Ah, yes, that's the blighter.

Must give that another read one of these days. Seem to recall quite liking that one.

[zencat]

I liked SeaFire as well. Good locations and some original set-pieces. And a good, tense climax. Pretty violent book, as I recall.

[dlb007]

Ah, yes Tarn, he was a nasty fellow wasn't he? SeaFire was actually one of Gardner's better efforts, and Tarn was a equally good villain; he came to a grisly end as well if I recall correctly.

[Bill]

Nena Blofeld. I was shocked at the revelation, and, given her rather interesting physical deformity (I was 14 back in 1982), to paraphrase Bond from TMWTGG, quite titillated!

Bill

[Double-Oh Agent]

Franz Sanchez from Licence To Kill would get my vote but seeing as he is found in a novelization, I suppose I should pick a Gardner original.

In that case, my choice would be Anton Murik from License Renewed. He's a nice little evil Napoleon-type character who concocts a terrifically wicked scheme. A good start for Gardner.

[dinovelvet]

Seeing as Brokenclaw is the only villain I can even remember (well OK I remember Blofeld's one-tit daughter), he gets my vote. I think Gardner tried to create a real Fleming-esque villain here and it worked, he's sort of a Native American Mr.Big with a deformity.

[OmarB]

Anton Murik, Brokenclaw, Scorpious, those are my guys. With JG, one of the things I didn't like is that sometimes the villains were ill defined. The organization seemed more scary than any individual in there. Icebreaker comes to mind, as well as Man From Barbarossa. Both good outings for the character, but the villain was overshadowed by his surrounding support structure rather than being the more menacing head.

Then there's his Win, Loose or Die style books with the many crosses and double crosses and a huge conspiracy. You loose focus on the villain those times too. He's almost secondary to the spy game.

[zencat]

Seeing as Brokenclaw is the only villain I can even remember (well OK I remember Blofeld's one-tit daughter), he gets my vote. I think Gardner tried to create a real Fleming-esque villain here and it worked, he's sort of a Native American Mr.Big with a deformity.

You know, I'm happy to see people coming around on Brokenclaw. I've always been a fan of this book.

[dinovelvet]

Seeing as Brokenclaw is the only villain I can even remember (well OK I remember Blofeld's one-tit daughter), he gets my vote. I think Gardner tried to create a real Fleming-esque villain here and it worked, he's sort of a Native American Mr.Big with a deformity.

You know, I'm happy to see people coming around on Brokenclaw. I've always been a fan of this book.

Why zencat, I'm actually part of the hardcore elite Brokenclaw fanbase which I think consists of well, you and me :

http://debrief.comma...showtopic=30103

[Qwerty]

Several of them stand out to me. Anton Murik, Markus Bismaquer, David Dragonpol and Sir Max Tarn are probably at the top of my list.

With JG, one of the things I didn't like is that sometimes the villains were ill defined. The organization seemed more scary than any individual in there. Icebreaker comes to mind, as well as Man From Barbarossa. Both good outings for the character, but the villain was overshadowed by his surrounding support structure rather than being the more menacing head.

I'd say you've hit it on the head there. Completely agreed when stressing the fact that this only occasionally happened.

[Single-O-Seven]

Brokenclaw. As somebody mentioned, he had the allure of Mr. Big, one of Fleming's finest.

I, too, enjoyed the book. I polished it off in one day my first time around, and I'm not a fast reader by any means. Simple and cinematic, I think it would be a great, fun movie.

[zencat]

Be nice to add a poll to this. Think the only way I can do this is to start a new thread. Can a mod merge the two when I've completed the poll?

EDIT: http://debrief.comma...p...c=58037&hl=

[Trident]

Please add M as an option in the poll. IMO he behaves villain-ish to the point of villanousness. Probably the worst of them all, Gardner just didn't get around to unmask him.

[zencat]

I know there's already a thread on this. I've created this so I could add a poll. Can a mod now please merge the two threads? (Fun to see these names again.)

[Qwerty]

I know there's already a thread on this. I've created this so I could add a poll. Can a mod now please merge the two threads? (Fun to see these names again.)

For whatever reason your poll completely disappeared when I merged the two threads, zen.

So I've just gone and tried to replicate it - let me know if anything needs changing!

[Kronsteen]

I actually like many of Gardners villains. Murik, von Glöda, Rahani, Scorpius, Brokenclaw, Weisen and Tarn are all great. Tarn could possibly have been the best if it wasn't for the fuhrer-thing. It was enough him trying to destroy the environment.

In the end I think Wolfgang Weisen gets my vote. He had a somewhat classic "Bond villain" aura about him that I liked very much, and Gardner pulled that off without being a pastishe.

[AMC Hornet]

I have to go with Murik, Scorpius & Brokenclaw as well.

Here's an additional challenge: who would you cast to play Gardner's villains?