191 replies to this topic

[Trident]

Oh, I think the Fettes years would be a great setting for a Young Bond Series 2. Bond was there longer and there are some nice Fleming nuggets for Charlie in mine -- judo club?

I'd love to see this to happen.

Perhaps as a starting point, certainly. But I think 'Fettes Years' would be a little too close to Young Bond, like rehashing the first series. Also, I wouldn't want to cover every second of Bond's existance. There must at least be some room for a private life, a degree of normality up to a point.

I also see a problem for a plausible character arch. To go another couple of books with 'mere adventure' (in the broadest sense) doesn't take the character anywhere. But Young Bond succeeded in my view mainly, because there was a believable character development. Bringing Bond further should in my opinion be connected with some major ceasura, ideally the start of WWII and Bond enlisting.

[DAN LIGHTER]

I still have my toes crossed that the By Royal Command Limited Edition will be released next year.

From reading the interviews etc it appears Charlie still has a load of ideas what he could do with Bond next. I am sure it's all going on in the background. Or I hope it is.

Interesting you think Bond should have a little bit of a private life Trident. It's a good point. It would maybe give Bond that little bit that must be left to the imagination. I hope they don’t ever write about that night at Harrys Bar!

[Trident]

Interesting you think Bond should have a little bit of a private life Trident. It's a good point. It would maybe give Bond that little bit that must be left to the imagination. I hope they don’t ever write about that night at Harrys Bar!

Exactly what I think about it, wanted even to mention it in my last post. One thing that most thrillers and adventure stories do is creating a certain kind of ereignisdichte, an event-density or even pressure. That's entirely ok, we want to read about adventure, want the story to push on. We don't want to read the hero picking his nose, washing his laundry and all the zillion miniscule, insignificant moves of everyday life (that we could have first hand in our own lives). So far, so good.

But if you read a series, from a certain point onwards this event pressure becomes antagonistic, even antithetical to our suspend of disbelief. There can only ever be so much interesting times in one single life. After that, it just becomes farcical. Now, most series don't have a problem with that dilemma either, for the very simple reason that time in the series' universe isn't realtime. Fleming didn't bother to age his hero. Bond was 'always in his fighting prime, about 38'. And for Fleming's books this trick worked as well as for many other series.

So, what keeps us from adopting the same favourable ignorance to time's adamant erosion of our and our hero's existance? It's the very concept that Young Bond picked up with, a schoolboy slowly growing into an iconic figure of literature. As a whole, the Young Bond series was a bildungsroman. Not in the strictly classic sense of 'The Magic Mountain' or 'The Tin Drum'. But Bond has to undergo a process of maturation in the series, spread over the five books. The end sees him significantly changed from the person he was at the start, and the whole idea is remarkably well executed by Higson.

Now, if we insert here more material beyond the already finished storyarch, then the original concept would inevitably be watered down. Perhaps not with one book, or maybe two. But certainly with three or more. The storyarch would either repeat itself, effectively questioning the relevance of Bond's first 'becoming' or would have to bend in on itself, encapsuling events unconnected to previous and later events. Both possibilities aren't really alluring in my opinion, so my preference would be to proceed to other situations and settings.

[Sylvia Trench]

Some very interesting and erudite posts on this thread, but what you guys on the site always forget is that the Young Bond books are primarily for kids, with a core readership of 10 to 12 year olds. They don't anyalse the books in the same way as us lot, they just want some good fun adventure stories starring their favourite hero, and aren't interested in the plausibility of it all or how it fits in with Fleming's oeuvre. The closest equivalent to these books are the Alex Rider stories of Anthony Horowitz. i think to date there have been about eight or nine of these published, and they take place over the course of a year! That's pretty good going. With any series, lierary or TV, there has to be a certain suspension of disbelief ... All these things couldn't possibly happen to this person/these people in that short space of time, but if they didn't keep happening we wouldn't keep reading/viewing. In the end (as with the adult Bond books - where Bond remains a constant 35 years old) you have to approach each book in isolation. Young fans of the series would no doubt just want more of the same ad infinitum - Let's urge Charlie not to jump the shark (like Fleming did with the disastrous Spy Who Loved Me) and try to change the format. Remember, it was at those points in Fleming's writing career when he was on the verge of despair, unable to think of any fresh wrinkles and longing to throw in the towel that he came up with some of his best stuff.

[Trident]

Some very interesting and erudite posts on this thread, but what you guys on the site always forget is that the Young Bond books are primarily for kids, with a core readership of 10 to 12 year olds. They don't anyalse the books in the same way as us lot, they just want some good fun adventure stories starring their favourite hero, and aren't interested in the plausibility of it all or how it fits in with Fleming's oeuvre. The closest equivalent to these books are the Alex Rider stories of Anthony Horowitz. i think to date there have been about eight or nine of these published, and they take place over the course of a year! That's pretty good going. With any series, lierary or TV, there has to be a certain suspension of disbelief ... All these things couldn't possibly happen to this person/these people in that short space of time, but if they didn't keep happening we wouldn't keep reading/viewing. In the end (as with the adult Bond books - where Bond remains a constant 35 years old) you have to approach each book in isolation. Young fans of the series would no doubt just want more of the same ad infinitum - Let's urge Charlie not to jump the shark (like Fleming did with the disastrous Spy Who Loved Me) and try to change the format. Remember, it was at those points in Fleming's writing career when he was on the verge of despair, unable to think of any fresh wrinkles and longing to throw in the towel that he came up with some of his best stuff.

Of course, you're right there. The main readership doesn't much care for any literate musings and want their adventure, plain and simple. But YB's concept was to go a little distance beyond that, introducing the element of age and time passing. If they had wanted to go the Alex Rider route (some remarkably adaptions of Fleming's originals for a young contemporary readership) IFP would have had to drop all aspirations on fitting the books into Fleming's universe and timeline. Something most fans suspected initially and were quite sceptic about, me included.

They could have gone on for an infinite number of books, but I doubt the result would have been anywhere near as interesting and satisfying as is now. I remember a series of youth books about a French secret agent who stayed always 18 years old for over 20 years. The books were quite fun but their initial charm simply wore off over the years, in my view mainly because nothing in the basic concept ever really changed, a phenomenon not so far from the Gardner times of the continuations.

As far as I can see Horowitz mainly avoids moving further down Rider's age to be able to stay away from sex, something his readers weren't too comfortable with around book two or three. But from what I gather, Horowitz also realises the need for some kind of development and hints at greater mysteries beyond the surface of Rider's character. Don't know if that will ever really play a part in the series, but from my point of view there has to come a stadium where things change, for better or worse. I see of course also the valid interest of the writer and the publisher to keep things going as long as possible. We'll see what turn the Riders will take in the future.

The difference to the YB series is that these were originally intended as the starter drug to Fleming's works. Their sole purpose was to get new readers and gently transport them into 007 country. They weren't intended to run on indefinitely. That might have been different had IFP guessed their success some years ago. But they didn't and now have up to a point stick with what they've got.

[stromberg]

Some very interesting and erudite posts on this thread, but what you guys on the site always forget is that the Young Bond books are primarily for kids, with a core readership of 10 to 12 year olds. They don't anyalse the books in the same way as us lot, they just want some good fun adventure stories starring their favourite hero, and aren't interested in the plausibility of it all or how it fits in with Fleming's oeuvre. The closest equivalent to these books are the Alex Rider stories of Anthony Horowitz. i think to date there have been about eight or nine of these published, and they take place over the course of a year! That's pretty good going. With any series, lierary or TV, there has to be a certain suspension of disbelief ... All these things couldn't possibly happen to this person/these people in that short space of time, but if they didn't keep happening we wouldn't keep reading/viewing. In the end (as with the adult Bond books - where Bond remains a constant 35 years old) you have to approach each book in isolation. Young fans of the series would no doubt just want more of the same ad infinitum - Let's urge Charlie not to jump the shark (like Fleming did with the disastrous Spy Who Loved Me) and try to change the format. Remember, it was at those points in Fleming's writing career when he was on the verge of despair, unable to think of any fresh wrinkles and longing to throw in the towel that he came up with some of his best stuff.

Have to disagree in some points here. Us 'adult' fans certainly tend to over-analyze the YB series (as we do with all things Bond), but to say that kids don't care about stuff like timeline and continuity is plain wrong. Don't underestimate kids. Of course, they look for a higher percentage of good fun and over the top adventure, but they can be strict critics when the logic within the story universe gets out of hand. And the target audience for YB doesn't end at 12, it starts at 12. That's a difficult age if you want to keep your reader interested. The HP books (forgive me that comparison) have shown that a straight and limited timeline works very well. Also, let's not forget that YB may have kids as core target audience, but is also aimed at adult readers and fans, a balancing act that both Higson and IFP managed very good so far.

Haven't read any of the Rider books so I won't go into detail on that. But I see that, while I'm typing, Trident has already done this in a better way than I could, so cheers for that.

The format has to move on, especially as the kids have heard of an adult James Bond, and they're longing to get there.

[zencat]

The difference to the YB series is that these were originally intended as the starter drug to Fleming's works. Their sole purpose was to get new readers and gently transport them into 007 country. They weren't intended to run on indefinitely.

I'm not sure that's true. At least I've never heard anyone -- publisher, author, or IFP -- say anything like that about the series. I think too many adult Bond fans think the sole purpose of the YB series was to tell the origin story of Fleming's Bond. The idea that it now must stop because continued adventures will strain the credibility of this origin is nonsense. James Bond is the king of strained credibility, and I really think you need to look at this series as it's own thing. I think the purpose of the YB series was to create a rousing stand alone YA action adventure series (tied into Fleming's Bond to be sure) that can indeed run indefinitely should there be the will to do so and fans who want it. I think the happy accident in all this is Charlie Higson has mixed the formula in such a way that he has truly conjured the spirit of Fleming, and that's one of the reasons this Bond fan wants it to continue.

[Trident]

The difference to the YB series is that these were originally intended as the starter drug to Fleming's works. Their sole purpose was to get new readers and gently transport them into 007 country. They weren't intended to run on indefinitely.

I'm not sure that's true. At least I've never heard anyone -- publisher, author, or IFP -- say anything like that about the series. I think too many adult Bond fans think the sole purpose of the YB series was to tell the origin story of Fleming's Bond. The idea that it now must stop because continued adventures will strain the credibility of this origin is nonsense. James Bond is the king of strained credibility, and I really think you need to look at this series as it's own thing. I think the purpose of the YB series was to create a rousing stand alone YA action adventure series (tied into Fleming's Bond to be sure) that can indeed run indefinitely should there be the will to do so and fans who want it. I think the happy accident in all this is Charlie Higson has mixed the formula in such a way that he has truly conjured the spirit of Fleming, and that's one of the reasons this Bond fan wants it to continue.

Oh, but that's completely different from what I understood the series to be about. I mean, of course the main reason is to earn a decent few quid and open a part of the market that was looking Bond films long before they understood what's happening between Bond and his female company underneath the sheets when Moore is contacted via Seiko in TSWLM. A part of the market that can and does enjoy the films for decades, without knowing or even caring about the books.

But, big but here, if that was the sole purpose, or even just the main one amongst others, getting the kids to read Bond instead of just watching him, then the by far safer way would have been to not date the novels. Or at the very least update them to Bond being born more recently. Zen, you and me are about the same age I suppose, and of course we know about history. But the younger readership has by far not the awareness about this history we take for granted. Transporting them to a period even before that war is in any event a risk. Not because kids wouldn't be able to understand, but because it's not sure from the start they'd care about that period. I think I wouldn't have risked that move, had I been in any position to decide at IFP.

Another point that I think supports my impression is the limitation to five books. I know it's common practice today to give writers contracts over a number of books instead of buying every single one. Makes the whole business easier to calculate for all concerned parties. But there has been a limitation from the start and a rough outline where Bond would end up with the last instalment. Both these regulations cut down the number of options for IFP to push the button once more. Cut down, but I have to concede they don't close all the doors.

What closes (most of) them, and did so right from the start in my view, is the apparent absence of a option on IFP's side to secure Higson's services for further entries. What I mean is, had I the intention to build up a stand alone series with the maximum number of possible sequels, then I'd certainly include such an option into the initial contract, wouldn't I? Even if it was just a trial balloon to test the waters, I'd be sure to let Charlie sign with a drop of blood.

Now, when did YB really take off? I suppose most of us would agree it was with 'Blood Fever'. That would have been the moment to rattle Higson's chain, at the latest after 'Double Or Die'. But as far as we know, nothing of the sort has happened up to now. Had there been such an option I would have expected an announcement at the latest after the series' conclusion with 'By Royal Command'.

What happened instead was Higson signing a new contract with Puffin and starting his own original series. Now, there can be any number of reasons for this. But it's also obvious YB isn't stuck with the first five books for lack of ideas on Charlies side. In fact he went on record only recently with promising ideas. The overall impression is, it's not Higson who stalls further adventures.

So if the reason is located not on his side this still doesn't necessarily mean IFP isn't interested in general. For example, it might (just might; absolutely just guesswork on my side) be a question of the pricetag preventing a second series. This would be only natural, Higson has earned considerable standing with pulling YB. He would have every right to know and demand his price now.

But that wouldn't really prevent IFP from continuing their new venture, would it? Higson is hardly the only writer and it can't be impossible to find a talent able to step into the breach. If the emphasis (IFP's) was on cashing in, this would be just logical. But, once more to the best of our knowledge, nothing in this direction has happened.

My point is, if 'indefinitely' is (or was) a key factor of IFP's calculation with Young Bond, then I wonder why nothing really points in this direction IMHO and no apparent steps are taken. The way I read these facts indicates to me YB is overall a limited series by conception. It has a potential for further entries, but is in the end not designed to run on for an indefinite period of years/novels/spin-offs.

Just my 2 pennies...

[zencat]

As to the future of YB and why we have stopped at five, the best info we have is what Charlie says;

CH. As I said, I was originally commissioned to do these five books…well, not commissioned, but we talked about doing a series of five books. So I worked out a story over five books which would end with the maid incident and Bond leaving Eton. And I knew whatever happened I was going to take a break after that. But, you know, they say it’s done very well, done very well for IFP, done very well for Puffin, done very well for me, so obviously there is a great desire between the three camps to do more books. The decision as to exactly how we do the books and where we go ultimately lies with IFP.

But, again, that Danjaq name sitting in the copyright now has me very spooked. It's clear from Charlie's statement above (made on Sept 4, 2008) that there is a desire on everyone's part to do more books after he takes the break he planned before he even wrote Book 1. If for some reason YB suddenly goes away, well, it's not unreasonable to speculate that Danjaq (the "fourth camp"?) had something to do with it. But we'll hang that albatross when and if it happens.

[zencat]

double post

[Trident]

As to the future of YB and why we have stopped at five, all we have is what Charlie says;

CH. As I said, I was originally commissioned to do these five books…well, not commissioned, but we talked about doing a series of five books. So I worked out a story over five books which would end with the maid incident and Bond leaving Eton. And I knew whatever happened I was going to take a break after that. But, you know, they say it’s done very well, done very well for IFP, done very well for Puffin, done very well for me, so obviously there is a great desire between the three camps to do more books. The decision as to exactly how we do the books and where we go ultimately lies with IFP.

But, again, that Danjaq name sitting in the copyright now has me very spooked. It's clear from Charlie's statement above (made on Sept 4, 2008) that there is a desire on everyone's part to do more books after he takes the break he planned before he even wrote Book 1. If for some reason YB suddenly goes away, well, it's not unreasonable to speculate that Danjaq (the "fourth camp"?) had something to do with that. But we'll tackle that when and if it happens.

Ah, yes. Looks like the general frame was agreed upon by all parties prior to starting.

Still, I wonder why IFP hasn't pursued further. Danjaq now calls the shots apparently. But they couldn't have forced IFP to surrender their YB branch, could they? Except with money of course.

[zencat]

Still, I wonder why IFP hasn't pursued further. Danjaq now calls the shots apparently. But they couldn't have forced IFP to surrender their YB branch, could they? Except with money of course.

Well, we should be careful. We really don't know anything. Danjaq may have just bought the logos, etc., to have all things JB protected under their umbrella. Doesn't mean they're calling the shots. And it could be IFP and Charlie have the next books all planned. Charlie did set-up a new villain in AHMTK, and surviving villains tend to return in the YB universe. So...we just don't know.

[K1Bond007]

I really wouldn't speculate too much. As zen says we really don't know. I think, honestly, Charlie did his 5 and is now on a break and that's simply that. What's going on with IFP and Danjaq is anybody's guess. I don't think it factors on the future too much. IFP still calls the shots.

I think if you estimate how long Charlie will be working on The Enemy and assume he returns for more Bond adventures immediately after then that will be roughly when more will happen. I'd guess 2011.

[Trident]

Well, Danjaq having YB under their wings really needn't mean anything else but the next step in marketing YB, whenever these steps are being made. It's certainly clear that YB doesn't pose a threat to the films and both series can effortlessly coexist without one bothering the other.

[sharpshooter]

After having the book for a few days and going over it, I think it unquestionably lives up to the concept. It’s all very well done and a serves as a respectable companion to Higson’s books. I liked the short story. I didn’t love it, but it’s still an entertaining ride. And still better than most continuation stories.

[zencat]

I really wouldn't speculate too much. As zen says we really don't know. I think, honestly, Charlie did his 5 and is now on a break and that's simply that. What's going on with IFP and Danjaq is anybody's guess. I don't think it factors on the future too much. IFP still calls the shots.

I think if you estimate how long Charlie will be working on The Enemy and assume he returns for more Bond adventures immediately after then that will be roughly when more will happen. I'd guess 2011.

I had a dream last night that I got ahold of a catalog that revealed IFP's plans. There was a new Bond book called something like Longitude 78 (but it wasn't that). It was the first book in a "Teen Bond" series and the author was not Charlie Higson, but his name started with an H. The cover was purple. There was also some other book, but I don't remeber what it was now.

Will my dream come true?

[Trident]

I really wouldn't speculate too much. As zen says we really don't know. I think, honestly, Charlie did his 5 and is now on a break and that's simply that. What's going on with IFP and Danjaq is anybody's guess. I don't think it factors on the future too much. IFP still calls the shots.

I think if you estimate how long Charlie will be working on The Enemy and assume he returns for more Bond adventures immediately after then that will be roughly when more will happen. I'd guess 2011.

I had a dream last night that I got ahold of a catalog that revealed IFP's plans. There was a new Bond book called something like Longitude 78 (but it wasn't that). It was the first book in a "Teen Bond" series and the author was not Charlie Higson, but his name started with an H. The cover was purple. There was also some other book, but I don't remeber what it was now.

Will my dream come true?

Last or first name?

And by the way, what did you have yesterday evening? I'd like to take a look myself on that catalogue...

[zencat]

Last name.

What did I have last night? It was Thanksgiving. In the course of two dinners I socked away six plates of turkey and lots of wine.

[Trident]

Last name.

What did I have last night? It was Thanksgiving. In the course of two dinners I socked away six plates of turkey and lots of wine.

Oh ! I knew it'd be a little tricky...


You really think about H...?

[Qwerty]

Now on the CBn main page...

Paperback edition of Charlie Higson's Danger Society available for pre-order

Available to pre-order at Amazon.co.uk

[zencat]

Paperback cover art has just popped up on the Penguin website. I didn't get a heads-up on this so I don't have a high-res version, but I'l work on getting that this week.

http://youngbonddoss..._cover_art.html




Gotta say, I think the cover is fine, but not nearly as creative or inspired as the recent YB covers. Think about the paperback editions of BF, HG, and BRC. This is...serviceable, and maybe the right kind of cover to do for this kind of book, but I kinda expected something more artistic.

[[dark]]

Totally agree, zencat - though maybe it'll look better in the flesh.

[zencat]

You know, something just hit me (and I just added this to my story). This cover breaks the long held tradition (rule?) in the UK of not including James Bond on cover art.

[[dark]]

To be fair, so did SilverFin: The Graphic Novel - and both aren't proper James Bond novels.

What I found interesting was the change in wording from the hardcover (which called "A Hard Man to Kill" a "Young Bond story") to the paperback release (a "James Bond adventure").

[zencat]

Yeah...good points.

I think they could have featured the name of the "adventure" on the cover.

Totally agree, zencat - though maybe it'll look better in the flesh.

We also might see some modifications before release.

[Qwerty]

I'm not sure quite what it is about this cover, but I actually like it a bit more than I expect I normally would. It's a bit generic overall, but the red target mark is eye-catching.

Just wish they would switch out that (rather odd) pic of Bond for another one. Other than that, I'm pretty happy.

[sharpshooter]

It'll do.

[zencat]

Updated the article with a high res version.

They also sent me the confirmed Enemy paperback cover.

[DAN LIGHTER]

I didnt like it at first, but looking at the high-res it has grown on me. You cant beat Kev Walkers art work. Although I dont buy the paperbacks as I dont suffer from got-to-collect-the-lot syndrome. Thank goodness as I would be broke I hope they dont pop something in it that I must have now I that I have made that comment.

[Qwerty]

Now on the CBn main page...

Danger Society: The Young Bond Dossier paperback now shipping

Order online from Amazon.co.uk