39 replies to this topic

[Nicolas Suszczyk]

http://www.youtube.c...e...ic cut&aq=f

I can't post the link because of copyright reasons, but you can search it there. I reedited QoS with the Columbia logo with its jingle and added the barrel at the beginning, omitting the car chase.

Thanks to Rich Douglas for the music and Donovan Mayne Nicholls for the idea.

[Harmsway]

Interesting idea. I daresay the film wouldn't be too much the worse had it actually picked up right as Bond was driving into Siena. It might have even been the better for it - the car chase is pretty much unnecessary as far as the storyline is concerned, entertaining though it might have been.

That said, I intensely dislike the way you've slowed down the gunbarrel. The best thing about the QUANTUM OF SOLACE gunbarrel was its relentless speed (a perfect match for the "horribly efficient" CraigBond), and now it plays so slow as to be almost ridiculous. I understand you were trying to match it with Rich's cue, but still.

[Captain Tightpants]

I didn't like it in the slightest; I much prefer the way it was cut in the actual film.

[Jose]

I didn't like it in the slightest; I much prefer the way it was cut in the actual film.

I second that.

[sorking]

I reedited QoS with the Columbia logo with its jingle and added the barrel at the beginning, omitting the car chase.

Why?

Edited by sorking, 12 February 2009 - 10:34 PM.

[jaguar007]

Why not have the gunbarrel dissolving into the shot of the Aston under the tunnel just before the car chase?

[Mr_Wint]

This is how I would do it:

1. Gunbarrel, dissolves into:
2. Bond enters the tunnel in Siena (some of the close-ups on the car and Bond is shown)
3. Car stops, pick out Mr White.
4. Location shot (the first scene after the PTS is placed here).
5. The interrogation begins.
6. The Palio Chase
Bond firing at Mitchell leads us into the
7. Titles, cut to
8. The London text, and the following scenes

It would've been a 7-8 min PTS in this way. This is an improvement because 1. The gunbarrel is where it should be, 2. The pointless car chase is removed and 3. The audience get some chance to breath between the Palio chase and the fight with Slate.

[Professor Dent]

An interesting idea. I'm one of those people who thinks the gunbarrel should always be at the beginning of the movie.

[Mr Teddy Bear]

Even though I dislike the execution of it, I actually like the idea of the "pointless" chase, it is one of the Bond traditions they kept in QUANTUM OF SOLACE. And it's a great teaser revealing Mr White in the boot even though we all saw it coming.

Edited by Mr Teddy Bear, 13 February 2009 - 01:57 AM.

[Mr. Arlington Beech]

An interesting idea. I'm one of those people who thinks the gunbarrel should always be at the beginning of the movie.

I second that. Especially if there isn't any good reason to have it at the end. I know that intention was- supposedly- give a closure to Bond story's arc and all that, but Bond is fully formed as the 'beautiful machine' that we all know and love at the end of CR, IMO. Hence, I just don't understand why if Bond already 'earns' the right to utter the "Bond, James Bond" line and the full display of the Bond theme in the traditional way on CR, doesn't have the right to the gunbarrel at the beginning of QOS.

[Leon]

I did like the opening car chase, the problems are more vast than simply the odd scene. The entire structure of the narrative was not great - just too action heavy from the start and a generally forced story about water supplies to follow. Not a great idea for a Bond story squeezed for all it was worth, unnecessary complication to mask mediocrity of writing and glammed-up with fancy retro stylisation etc.

It's an enjoyable film, but IMO it is straying too far from the great James Bond stories we should be getting with this new era. It is these foundations behind the film which have dissapointed so much of its audience.

[blueman]

I really liked the gun barrel at the end of the film, wouldn't mind if the next one did that too.

[Mr. Arlington Beech]

I really liked the gun barrel at the end of the film, wouldn't mind if the next one did that too.

Why??
I mean, do you think there's a good reason to put the gunbarrel at the end, or you just like it because it's different to the previous ones, and hence you enjoy it for pure aesthetics??

Edited by Mr. Arlington Beech, 13 February 2009 - 07:27 AM.

[Zorin Industries]

And this is why Eon Productions make James Bond films and 007 fans are only allowed to buy the DVD.

If you want an opening to pack a punch and hit the ground running, you really need tighter music than that circa 1997 Bond mega-mix and quicker movement.

[CaptainPower]

And this is why Eon Productions make James Bond films and 007 fans are only allowed to buy the DVD.

If you want an opening to pack a punch and hit the ground running, you really need tighter music than that circa 1997 Bond mega-mix and quicker movement.

And this is why everyone is allowed to voice their own opinion.

[Loomis]

And this is why Eon Productions make James Bond films and 007 fans are only allowed to buy the DVD.

If you want an opening to pack a punch and hit the ground running, you really need tighter music than that circa 1997 Bond mega-mix and quicker movement.

A tad harsh towards fans who are just having some harmless fun?

[Zorin Industries]

And this is why Eon Productions make James Bond films and 007 fans are only allowed to buy the DVD.

If you want an opening to pack a punch and hit the ground running, you really need tighter music than that circa 1997 Bond mega-mix and quicker movement.

A tad harsh towards fans who are just having some harmless fun?

Yes. Okay. Accepted. But my sentiment remains the same if not the delivery...

[HildebrandRarity]

Interesting idea. I daresay the film wouldn't be too much the worse had it actually picked up right as Bond was driving into Siena. It might have even been the better for it - the car chase is pretty much unnecessary as far as the storyline is concerned, entertaining though it might have been.

I love Aston Martins. I love fast, hard-hitting car chases. I vacationed in the northern Italian lake district as well as in Tuscany and Siena last July...so, to me, I LOVE the first 5 minutes of the movie.

The first 5 minutes is one reason why I paid to see the movie seven times in the theatre.

An Aston chase on European roads IS James Bond.

It's the type of thing that I pay hard dollars to see!

Why the would I and 80,000,000 other ticket buyers who paid to see the film want it ing removed?

Just remember, 80 MILLION TICKETS were sold for Q0S and i'm sure a reasonable percentage of those ticket buyers probably also liked the Aston chase.

[Judo chop]

And this is why Eon Productions make James Bond films and 007 fans are only allowed to buy the DVD.

If you want an opening to pack a punch and hit the ground running, you really need tighter music than that circa 1997 Bond mega-mix and quicker movement.

A tad harsh towards fans who are just having some harmless fun?

Yes. Okay. Accepted. But my sentiment remains the same if not the delivery...

Normally the offender first apologizes and then it's the offendee who does the 'accepting'.

That's how my mama taught me, anyway.

And I also really don’t understand the apathetic sentiments towards the car chase. It makes such complete sense to me. It’s a Bond film. It’s a PTS. It’s a car chase. It’s connective tissue between White’s estate and the interrogation cell. It makes all the sense in the world. It couldn’t make more sense if it tried.

[Zorin Industries]

And this is why Eon Productions make James Bond films and 007 fans are only allowed to buy the DVD.

If you want an opening to pack a punch and hit the ground running, you really need tighter music than that circa 1997 Bond mega-mix and quicker movement.

A tad harsh towards fans who are just having some harmless fun?

Yes. Okay. Accepted. But my sentiment remains the same if not the delivery...

Normally the offender first apologizes and then it's the offendee who does the 'accepting'.

That's how my mama taught me, anyway.

And I also really don’t understand the apathetic sentiments towards the car chase. It makes such complete sense to me. It’s a Bond film. It’s a PTS. It’s a car chase. It’s connective tissue between White’s estate and the interrogation cell. It makes all the sense in the world. It couldn’t make more sense if it tried.

Which is sort of a reason why I am tired of people - in fan edits or otherwise - keep criticising it without offering a singly decent alternative start to a film that has very few artistic pitfalls.

[ACE]

Esfuerzo interesante, Nicolas Suszczyk.

I preferred the original edit though.

Which is sort of a reason why I am tired of people - in fan edits or otherwise - keep criticising it without offering a singly decent alternative start to a film that has very few artistic pitfalls.

Grenaaaaaaaaade!

[Harmsway]

And I also really don’t understand the apathetic sentiments towards the car chase. It makes such complete sense to me. It’s a Bond film. It’s a PTS. It’s a car chase. It’s connective tissue between White’s estate and the interrogation cell. It makes all the sense in the world. It couldn’t make more sense if it tried.

Well, it's actually one of my favorite scenes in the film. Beautifully shot, great locations, and it provides and intense intro. And after all, it is a PTS, the kind of thing that's made for excessive tangents.

But I do acknowledge that from a storytelling perspective, it's nothing but filler. All the connective tissue the film really needs is seeing Bond pull into Siena and drop Mr. White off for interrogation. It would also somewhat temper the "overloaded action" feel of the first 20 minutes or so. So in that way, the overall film might benefit from its absence, even if those three minutes are pretty terrific.

[trs007]

This is how I would do it:

1. Gunbarrel, dissolves into:
2. Bond enters the tunnel in Siena (some of the close-ups on the car and Bond is shown)
3. Car stops, pick out Mr White.
4. Location shot (the first scene after the PTS is placed here).
5. The interrogation begins.
6. The Palio Chase
Bond firing at Mitchell leads us into the
7. Titles, cut to
8. The London text, and the following scenes

It would've been a 7-8 min PTS in this way. This is an improvement because 1. The gunbarrel is where it should be, 2. The pointless car chase is removed and 3. The audience get some chance to breath between the Palio chase and the fight with Slate.

Excellent suggestion. I would agree with this one. Although the car chase was OK, it was edited way too fast. I agree with the comment of seeing the film several times due to the car chase---MAINLY TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THE WAS HAPPENING.

[Judo chop]

And I also really don’t understand the apathetic sentiments towards the car chase. It makes such complete sense to me. It’s a Bond film. It’s a PTS. It’s a car chase. It’s connective tissue between White’s estate and the interrogation cell. It makes all the sense in the world. It couldn’t make more sense if it tried.

Well, it's actually one of my favorite scenes in the film. Beautifully shot, great locations, and it provides and intense intro. And after all, it is a PTS, the kind of thing that's made for excessive tangents.

But I do acknowledge that from a storytelling perspective, it's nothing but filler. All the connective tissue the film really needs is seeing Bond pull into Siena and drop Mr. White off for interrogation. It would also somewhat temper the "overloaded action" feel of the first 20 minutes or so. So in that way, the overall film might benefit from its absence, even if those three minutes are pretty terrific.

Are we evaluating its purposefulness based on film in general, or based on Bond films? Because as Bond PTSs go, it’s definitely on the substantive side. For just about any of the Bond PT sequences one could say the same; “It didn’t really need it. The film could have started right after that when Bond <fill in the blank>”.

Anyone, please feel free to prove me wrong. Find me 10 Bond films whose PTSs are more relevant to their stories than QOS’s.

Besides, I don’t have any problem at all with the frenetic first 20 minutes and I don’t agree that it should be tempered at all. Whether one likes the execution or not, there is intent there. I believe that “frenzy” is the goal, and not just a safety net for the lack of having any other ideas.

[Zorin Industries]

And I also really don’t understand the apathetic sentiments towards the car chase. It makes such complete sense to me. It’s a Bond film. It’s a PTS. It’s a car chase. It’s connective tissue between White’s estate and the interrogation cell. It makes all the sense in the world. It couldn’t make more sense if it tried.

Well, it's actually one of my favorite scenes in the film. Beautifully shot, great locations, and it provides and intense intro. And after all, it is a PTS, the kind of thing that's made for excessive tangents.

But I do acknowledge that from a storytelling perspective, it's nothing but filler. All the connective tissue the film really needs is seeing Bond pull into Siena and drop Mr. White off for interrogation. It would also somewhat temper the "overloaded action" feel of the first 20 minutes or so. So in that way, the overall film might benefit from its absence, even if those three minutes are pretty terrific.

Are we evaluating its purposefulness based on film in general, or based on Bond films? Because as Bond PTSs go, it’s definitely on the substantive side. For just about any of the Bond PT sequences one could say the same; “It didn’t really need it. The film could have started right after that when Bond <fill in the blank>”.

Anyone, please feel free to prove me wrong. Find me 10 Bond films whose PTSs are more relevant to their stories than QOS’s.

Besides, I don’t have any problem at all with the frenetic first 20 minutes and I don’t agree that it should be tempered at all. Whether one likes the execution or not, there is intent there. I believe that “frenzy” is the goal, and not just a safety net for the lack of having any other ideas.

Thank you sir. My sentiments exactly.

[Harmsway]

Are we evaluating its purposefulness based on film in general, or based on Bond films?

Film in general.

Besides, I don’t have any problem at all with the frenetic first 20 minutes and I don’t agree that it should be tempered at all.

Eh, I just don't think it works with the PTS/Main Title/The Actual Film structure. I'd probably dig it a lot more if there wasn't some naff title sequence in the middle keeping the action from really just escalating. On second thought, maybe I'm suggesting they cut the wrong bit, and it's really the title sequence that just feels awkwardly shoe-horned into what is really a pretty organic section the flick.

Either way, the opening 20 minutes feels a little too stop-and-start for my liking (heck, the whole flick feels a little too stop-and-start for my liking ).

[plankattack]

Are we evaluating its purposefulness based on film in general, or based on Bond films? Because as Bond PTSs go, it’s definitely on the substantive side. For just about any of the Bond PT sequences one could say the same; “It didn’t really need it. The film could have started right after that when Bond <fill in the blank>”.

Anyone, please feel free to prove me wrong. Find me 10 Bond films whose PTSs are more relevant to their stories than QOS’s.

I enjoy the QoS PTS immensely - it's short, punchy, and exciting. But as for 10 Bond PTSs that are more relevant......well, here goes.......
YOLT, OHMSS, DAF, LALD, TSWLM, MR, GE, TWINE, DAD, CR....

I should also add that moving the gun-barrel to the front is the singularly act that changes QoS from cheap Bourne-imitator to GF brilliance. In fact any film without gunbarrel in the right place, "Bond, James Bond", "Shaken not stirred," frequent use of theme etc is in fact, a load of tripe and should be struck from the canon. I'm glad as fans that we're able to redress this balance and singlehandedly preserve the franchise in the condition that only we know best.

Why am so sarcastic? It's Friday, why the heck shouldn't I be?

[Judo chop]

Are we evaluating its purposefulness based on film in general, or based on Bond films?

Film in general.

I love the way you argue, Harms!!! “It’s not that you’re making an erroneous point, Judo. It’s just that you’re in the wrong argument.”

Besides, I don’t have any problem at all with the frenetic first 20 minutes and I don’t agree that it should be tempered at all.

Eh, I just don't think it works with the PTS/Main Title/The Actual Film structure. I'd probably dig it a lot more if there wasn't some naff title sequence in the middle keeping the action from really just escalating. On second thought, maybe I'm suggesting they cut the wrong bit, and it's really the title sequence that just feels awkwardly shoe-horned into what is really a pretty organic section the flick.

I agree. Perhaps they also intentionally made the titles sequence so bad that the viewer feels compelled to skip it, thus creating a seamless stream of action?

I do like the cut point from the trunk to the titles – I think that’s a classy bit, but you’re right. I think you do kind of have to re-prime yourself for the next bit of adrenaline rush after a bit of downtime. I say the titles are ‘bad’, but I really just mean inappropriate. The titles are so melancholy compared to the bits on either side. Perhaps that was also intentional, but IMO it was the wrong move. A sequence that kept the heart rate moving just a bit would have been better.

[sharpshooter]

The car chase was one of my favorite moments, and I greatly anticipated the scene in the lead up to the film. It sets the tone and gets the pulse literally racing. Sure, in the grand scheme of things it’s nothing but filler, but I’d loathe to see it removed completely. It’s probably the best action scene present in the film.

[Nicolas Suszczyk]

There were many reasons because I slowed the GB. Besides it had to fit with Rich's music, I prefer it slower as the previous ones (sadly, the Movie Maker made it too slow).

As for not using the tunnel shots in Siena, it's because It was very complicated to keep sound effects without the music. Besides it was a way to not show Bond's car was cut.

I'll do other versions with Mr Wint's idea.