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What I thought of QoS


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#1 Judo chop

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 05:14 PM

It seems that the cliché stands, and you either like it, or loathe it. Count me in the first group.

The loathers have preconceptions about what a Bond film should be, and if The New Bond doesn’t meet the standards, it fails the test. I can understand this. It’s fair. When someone wants or expects a particular product and doesn’t receive it (QOS is NOT like any Bond film to come before it), then they have every right to be disappointed.

What’s unacceptable are the claims that QOS is somehow a P.O.S. It’s not. It is what it is, and sh’t it ain’t.

I didn’t like the titles sequence at all. Although I enjoy the titles song enough on its own merit, I don’t think it suits Bond or QOS at all. What’s more, I don’t think it suits the titles sequence at all, and I don’t think the titles sequence suits Bond or QOS at all. To my eyes and ears, it was four minutes of total dysfunction.

And so passes the nadir of the film. The only thing I can give a definitive :( to, though I have a few nitpicks regarding some of the handling of the action:

I loved the infamous ‘quick editing’ during the car chase, but after that it seemed unnecessary to me. I found its application a little frustrating during the rope swinging battle, and totally ridiculous during the catacomb chase scene prior. It wasn’t really needed during the boat battle either, which I found to be the least visually understandable sequence of the film. Obviously Bond has taken a cue from That Other Spy Series© and I do hope that it is a salute and not a commitment to follow. Personally, I’ve seen enough of it. I think it’s a fad nearing the end of its welcome, and that it undermines the hard work of the stunt choreographers and stuntmen.

Also, I think they took Bond’s invincibility just one small step too far. I love me an indomitable Bond when the setting calls for it, and if there ever was a Bond actor who could sell it, it’s Craig, but I think with the amount of realism the film attests to, Bond is too close to immortal. Believe it or not, I was totally fine with his roof-jumping, rope swinging and plane diving. It’s when a handcuffed and closely guarded Bond disables three agents (who must know his penchant for physical defiance) in an elevator that my suspension of disbelief is broken. It’s as if I’ll believe anything when it’s Bond against nature, but when he’s pitted against his own type – ie. ‘humans’ - his prowess can only be exaggerated so much. Is that weird?

But, end the Bourne comparisons there. This is not Jason Bourne part 4: The Bourne Influence.

Those are the negatives. Which leaves everything else:

The acting was stupendous; every face is worthy of attention even, and sometimes especially, during moments between dialogue.

Bond’s relationships are real. Every. Single. One. And this is made all the more amazing considering the film’s short running time. The M-Bond relationship gets the award for ‘most improved’. There is finally something there which I can sink my teeth into (without hurting my fillings). The Mathis-Bond relationship is very interesting as their conversations dance around the specifics of the past, and their final moment together is cold and hard, tender and heartfelt, all at once. I seem to remember reading complaints from other members regarding this scene. I’d browse their reviews trying to avoid spoilers, so I never got to the meat of their arguments, but I cannot comprehend the existence of any rational complaint. For all of the deaths Bond has had on his hands (other than Vesper’s) no other in the series comes close to reaching the character depths of Mathis’. As for the Felix-Bond relationship – well, this is a tease. Bond-Felix will have a trilogy of their own. In CR, the agents are introduced and a friendship is sparked. In QOS, it is tested. I am confident that in Bond 23, we will see it established. Can anybody remember any Bond film with as many significant relationships? (Careful not to confuse relationships with mere interactions.) And in the light of so much depth, his emotionally vacant exploit with the vacantly-named Agent Fields (wink, wink) develops its own sense of poignancy, where, in the past, the off-screen meaning behind Bond’s empty relationships was as empty as the on-screen relationships themselves.

The visuals, including Camille and Fields, were luscious, and I loved the artsy introductions to each locale.

Dark Bondian humor – my favorite kind of Bondian humor - is prevalent, and I think has grown even more mature since Casino Royale. Nods to the previous films are sometimes obscure, sometimes obvious, but at all times handled expertly. At last, we’ve figured out how to honor Bond’s (worthy) history with tact and grace.

Additional indication that Bond is growing up are the subtitles for the Non-English dialogue. A nice touch.

Greene is smarm incarnate, and is not underused. He’s used as much as previous Bond villains, only minus the long exposition in which every detail of a fairly simply and narrow-minded plot is painstakingly revealed to us, the audience, via Bond. Personally, I didn’t miss it. Not to mention that Greene lives up to his promise of being a cheap and frighteningly wild foe in combat. Steel-toed boots recommended.

Finally, the Algerian bo’ plot revelation was very satisfying, although it felt a little tacked on and epilogue-like. I’d rather it have been incorporated into the film. I’ll make sure that I see it done that way when I direct a Bond film.

In conclusion:

QoS is a thrilling, visually ground-breaking (decidedly ground shattering for Bond, and to some extent probably probing new territories for cinema as a whole) and welcomed addition to the series.

I feel comfortable saying Quantum of Solace is the first Bond film EVER that can claim to be thematic. Yes, Bond has tinkered with the themes of trust, revenge or guilt before, but they were always treated as passing add-ons that would emerge periodically on an ad-hoc basis as the scene suited. Never before have we seen them woven into the structure of a film, subtly and powerfully. After leaving the film I felt that not only had I been treated to a high-wire, taught and stylish action experience, I also felt that I had been delivered a message that was never physically spoken.

Unless I’m mistaken, that’s something only good movies are able to do.

#2 Safari Suit

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 05:16 PM

Word :( :)

#3 bondrules

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 05:16 PM

After leaving the film I felt that not only had I been treated to a high-wire, taught and stylish action experience, I also felt that I had been delivered a message that was never physically spoken.



:(

#4 Loomis

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 05:28 PM

Excellent, thought-provoking stuff, Judo (as I've come to expect from you). I do think you may be overrating it slightly - your observation that PoS (as The Haters™ would call it) is "to some extent probably probing new territories for cinema as a whole" had me raising my eyebrows Roger Moore-style.

Mind you, my own review was much more hyperbolic - I was geeking out and singing the film's praises like Harry Knowles on Ecstasy at a Tarantino retrospective. It was even more fun than one's first time getting loaded on cheap beer bought with a fake ID and then going cowtipping! Dude, I mean.... heck, in those wonderful post-coital hours after seeing QoS (or, if you prefer [which I know you don't, JC], PoS), I thought that the likes of Sean Connery, Ian Fleming and Terence Young were merely chumps who'd paved the way for the true pioneers (and thus, in a very real sense, the true creators) of James Bond, namely Daniel Craig, Marc Forster and Paul Haggis.

Or, as they now deserved to be known via the endearingly typotastic naive enthusiasm of fandom, Cregg, Forrrrsstrer and Haggggissssssss.

'Course, I'm nowadays a little more sober in my love for QUANTUM. But reading your review has sure gotten me thirsty for some more of that Kool-Aid!

#5 Skudor

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 05:30 PM

Great review Judo! Am very pleased that you enjoyed the movie; I thought you would.

#6 MattofSteel

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 05:38 PM

Terrific review. I agree about the humour. Remember, Terrence Young himself has often talked about he worked with Connery to bring a kind of dark humour to the character - it's his means of deflecting danger and fear, after all. "I think they were on their way to a funeral" - one of my favourite lines from Dr. No, but almost quite morbid!

I loved that kind of humour littered throughout QoS, not just in terms of jokes like that, but just the humour of the situations. It's Forster's way of visual storytelling that translated better than I ever thought it would.

#7 BoogieBond

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 06:11 PM

Good one, and enjoyed that. And agree that if one scenes does just go a little too far it is the lift scene, knocking out 3 MI6 men with relatively little effort. Reminded me of the fight near the liquor store in Waterloo in Bourne Ultimatum, Dunno why, just the way Bond dispatched them I guess.
Really enjoyed that review though :(

Edited by BoogieBond, 17 November 2008 - 06:14 PM.


#8 Judo chop

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 06:27 PM

Excellent, thought-provoking stuff, Judo (as I've come to expect from you). I do think you may be overrating it slightly - your observation that PoS (as The Haters™ would call it) is "to some extent probably probing new territories for cinema as a whole" had me raising my eyebrows Roger Moore-style.

I suppose I could have just said "they did something new and used this cool wind tunnel training apparatus to simulate a freefall action sequence in the film", but you know...

I like the dramatic. Hehe. :(

#9 Judo chop

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 06:41 PM

Great review Judo! Am very pleased that you enjoyed the movie; I thought you would.

Thanks, Sku! I was dead-on-balls-accurate when I said your thoughts on the car chase would prove valuable to me.

The quick-edit shakey-cam indeed is an enhancement for that particular scene. I knew it was coming, and right quick at that, and so I had myself braced ready for the action. I swore to myself that I would not miss a beat – that I would not become disoriented and, as result, give up on the scene.

My eyes were strained, fighting against even the tingling itch of dryness. I WOULD NOT GIVE UP A SECOND’S ATTENTION! It worked. In doing so, I found myself even more in the moment, right there next to Bond with every nerve at full awareness, sympathetically suffering the franticness of the moment.

I strongly encourage others to heed this advice. Force yourself to join Bond in the car chase. It’s the best and only way to witness the scene.

I don’t think the strategy works as well for the Sienna, or boat chases, however. I think it may come down to the simple fact that during the car chase, our perspective is literally in the passenger seat. It doesn't work the same while Bond is swinging around on ropes or running through tunnels.

#10 avl

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 06:58 PM

I feel comfortable saying Quantum of Solace is the first Bond film EVER that can claim to be thematic. Yes, Bond has tinkered with the themes of trust, revenge or guilt before, but they were always treated as passing add-ons that would emerge periodically on an ad-hoc basis as the scene suited. Never before have we seen them woven into the structure of a film, subtly and powerfully. After leaving the film I felt that not only had I been treated to a high-wire, taught and stylish action experience, I also felt that I had been delivered a message that was never physically spoken.

Unless I’m mistaken, that’s something only good movies are able to do.


Nicely put, I agree with you

#11 ImTheMoneypenny

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 07:09 PM

Great review Judo! :(

#12 00Twelve

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 04:28 AM

Great remarks, dude. I'm thrilled we saw the same film! (I liked the title sequence decently well, though. The differences end there. :()

#13 Harmsway

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 04:42 AM

I didn’t like the titles sequence at all. Although I enjoy the titles song enough on its own merit, I don’t think it suits Bond or QOS at all. What’s more, I don’t think it suits the titles sequence at all, and I don’t think the titles sequence suits Bond or QOS at all. To my eyes and ears, it was four minutes of total dysfunction.

And so passes the nadir of the film.

I agree that it seems really detached from the rest of the film. I'm not quite as down on the QUANTUM OF SOLACE titles as you are, but I've certainly commented that it's quite a let down after Kleinman's excellent work on CASINO ROYALE. It was pretty forgettable.

How did you feel about the freefall and Craig's awkward shouting of "You and I have a mutual friend!" before he takes out the police chief? I thought those were two sections where the film lost direction for a bit. The freefall feels inappropriate for Craig's Bond (a very Brosnan-esque moment), and the line is so awkward that even Craig can't make it work.

If QUANTUM OF SOLACE had a different song (perhaps Cornell returning to do a more brooding title sequence), a title sequence by Kleinman, and lost the rather pedestrian boat chase and airplane chase, and ditched that one little line, then I think it would be just about perfect.

#14 Judo chop

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 03:37 PM

I agree that it seems really detached from the rest of the film. I'm not quite as down on the QUANTUM OF SOLACE titles as you are, but I've certainly commented that it's quite a let down after Kleinman's excellent work on CASINO ROYALE. It was pretty forgettable.

Hindsight is 20/20 and it was a bad move to remove Kleinman. Oh well.

How did you feel about the freefall and Craig's awkward shouting of "You and I have a mutual friend!" before he takes out the police chief? I thought those were two sections where the film lost direction for a bit. The freefall feels inappropriate for Craig's Bond (a very Brosnan-esque moment), and the line is so awkward that even Craig can't make it work.

I have to admit… I don’t even recall the line, so obviously neither it nor its delivery stuck in my craw. (I’ll have to find out what a craw is one of these days.)

As for the freefall sequence: I loved it. One of the scenes I’m most eager to see again. (One of about 30.) I recognize that the concept would sit comfortably in the Brosnan era, and maybe that’s the point – to fix some of the mistakes of the past. I think it was executed very, very well. To distinguish itself from the old millennium Bond it rushes by at the same pace as the rest of the action of the film so it feels more like a panicked free-fall and less like a “doo-DO, DOO-dooo!!” cinematic, wholly Hollywood’ish Bond moment. Bond doesn’t get time to take in the beautiful landscapes below, or to chat with passing pigeons, and so neither do we.

And as with many scenes from CR and QoS alike, Craig makes good of something with which I think Brosnan would have made poo. The way he barks instructions at Camille through the sounds of the rushing wind and against the clock really sells the scene for me.

And “bravo!” to Bond for continuing to find clever ways to do action. The fact that Craig and Camille ‘do the stunt’ themselves adds a layer of admirableness and separates the scene completely from the latter half of the Brosnan era.

Now, I’ve said earlier that I was a little moorebrowed by the landing. No, Bond didn’t land right on his feet, dust his suit and fix his tie, and neither did he grunt and groan like a coital pig as we’d have been treated to 10 years ago, but I think the fast editing of the sequence tells one story - that Bond and Camille are approaching the rock earth at about 1,000 screaming feet per second, and that the landing tells another story - that they released the chute in time and were able to roll with the impact.

(Also, I was a little taken aback by the setting they land in. I expected Gollum's head to pop up over the next rock.)

I’ll have to see it again of course, but I think it’s only Brosnan-era in broad concept, and not at all in execution thanks to a number of factors. I don’t know that Bond HAD to go by plane to serve the story, and I do think it’s possible that the scene was shoehorned into the script in order to meet Forster’s requirement of one action scene by air. (I am referring to the four-elements theme he mentioned in an interview).

If QUANTUM OF SOLACE had a different song (perhaps Cornell returning to do a more brooding title sequence), a title sequence by Kleinman, and lost the rather pedestrian boat chase and airplane chase, and ditched that one little line, then I think it would be just about perfect.

Yeah. Boat chase (again… forcing the ‘element of water’ bit?) not so good. There’s dialogue on the boat between Bond and Camille that I couldn’t decipher AT. ALL. And the grand escape move (something with an anchor?) was completely lost on me thanks to quick cuts, totally unlike the opening car chase which sucked me in and held me fast.

But, you know… I enjoyed the jittery action in the Bourne Ultimatum so much more on DVD than I did in the theaters. Perhaps the boat scene will translate better to a smaller screen?

#15 Publius

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 03:45 PM

I don’t think the strategy works as well for the Sienna, or boat chases, however. I think it may come down to the simple fact that during the car chase, our perspective is literally in the passenger seat. It doesn't work the same while Bond is swinging around on ropes or running through tunnels.

Also, the car chase is literally taking place on one track, making it easier to limit what you have to be prepared for. The foot chase and boat fight, meanwhile, take place in much more expansive... shall we say "action sandboxes." There are more dimensions and possibilities to account for.

It's for those reasons I actually found the car chase relatively easy to follow, that and the good lighting that characterizes most of this film's action (contrast that with the ever-dark Bourne fights). On that note, I also find it amazing that such a literally "sunny" film could feel so dark, cynical, indifferent, and alone (even in bustling crowds). Clearly a great deal of thought was put into this.

How did you feel about the freefall and Craig's awkward shouting of "You and I have a mutual friend!" before he takes out the police chief? I thought those were two sections where the film lost direction for a bit. The freefall feels inappropriate for Craig's Bond (a very Brosnan-esque moment), and the line is so awkward that even Craig can't make it work.

I loved the freefall for being a very Craig-ian take on a very classic Bond (not Brosnan Bond) action scene. Not even close to one of my favorite parts of the film, but still exciting in its own right (although I love the plane chase even more).

As for that line, I thought it was actually a believable pre-kill quip for a Bond that really never engages in such behavior, given his rage over the fate of his good friend. But I see what you mean about it being awkward, as it does cost Bond a cool 3 seconds, and this is a ruthlessly efficient Bond on a ruthlessly efficient mission.

And regarding the boat fight, I'm a huge fan, but maybe I'm just partial to scenes involving open water, having grown up in a coastal city. I absolutely love the shots of Craig driving away after it's all over, with one of Arnold's better tracks playing.

#16 Judo chop

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 03:50 PM

As for that line, I thought it was actually a believable pre-kill quip for a Bond that really never engages in such behavior, given his rage over the fate of his good friend. But I see what you mean about it being awkward, as it does cost Bond a cool 3 seconds, and this is a ruthlessly efficient Bond on a ruthlessly efficient mission.

Argh. I can't place this scene. Help me remember...

#17 Publius

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 04:05 PM

As for that line, I thought it was actually a believable pre-kill quip for a Bond that really never engages in such behavior, given his rage over the fate of his good friend. But I see what you mean about it being awkward, as it does cost Bond a cool 3 seconds, and this is a ruthlessly efficient Bond on a ruthlessly efficient mission.

Argh. I can't place this scene. Help me remember...

Camille has already infiltrated the base, the transaction between Medrano and Greene is complete, and Mathis' "friend" in the Bolivian police force is leaving when Bond makes his entrance by dropping on his car as it exits the building.

I love how Camille goes in before Bond and separately, building up anticipation for when and how Bond is going to make his move.

#18 DR76

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 04:12 PM

It seems that the cliché stands, and you either like it, or loathe it. Count me in the first group.

The loathers have preconceptions about what a Bond film should be, and if The New Bond doesn’t meet the standards, it fails the test. I can understand this. It’s fair. When someone wants or expects a particular product and doesn’t receive it (QOS is NOT like any Bond film to come before it), then they have every right to be disappointed.

What’s unacceptable are the claims that QOS is somehow a P.O.S. It’s not. It is what it is, and sh’t it ain’t.

I didn’t like the titles sequence at all. Although I enjoy the titles song enough on its own merit, I don’t think it suits Bond or QOS at all. What’s more, I don’t think it suits the titles sequence at all, and I don’t think the titles sequence suits Bond or QOS at all. To my eyes and ears, it was four minutes of total dysfunction.

And so passes the nadir of the film. The only thing I can give a definitive :( to, though I have a few nitpicks regarding some of the handling of the action:

I loved the infamous ‘quick editing’ during the car chase, but after that it seemed unnecessary to me. I found its application a little frustrating during the rope swinging battle, and totally ridiculous during the catacomb chase scene prior. It wasn’t really needed during the boat battle either, which I found to be the least visually understandable sequence of the film. Obviously Bond has taken a cue from That Other Spy Series© and I do hope that it is a salute and not a commitment to follow. Personally, I’ve seen enough of it. I think it’s a fad nearing the end of its welcome, and that it undermines the hard work of the stunt choreographers and stuntmen.

Also, I think they took Bond’s invincibility just one small step too far. I love me an indomitable Bond when the setting calls for it, and if there ever was a Bond actor who could sell it, it’s Craig, but I think with the amount of realism the film attests to, Bond is too close to immortal. Believe it or not, I was totally fine with his roof-jumping, rope swinging and plane diving. It’s when a handcuffed and closely guarded Bond disables three agents (who must know his penchant for physical defiance) in an elevator that my suspension of disbelief is broken. It’s as if I’ll believe anything when it’s Bond against nature, but when he’s pitted against his own type – ie. ‘humans’ - his prowess can only be exaggerated so much. Is that weird?

But, end the Bourne comparisons there. This is not Jason Bourne part 4: The Bourne Influence.

Those are the negatives. Which leaves everything else:

The acting was stupendous; every face is worthy of attention even, and sometimes especially, during moments between dialogue.

Bond’s relationships are real. Every. Single. One. And this is made all the more amazing considering the film’s short running time. The M-Bond relationship gets the award for ‘most improved’. There is finally something there which I can sink my teeth into (without hurting my fillings). The Mathis-Bond relationship is very interesting as their conversations dance around the specifics of the past, and their final moment together is cold and hard, tender and heartfelt, all at once. I seem to remember reading complaints from other members regarding this scene. I’d browse their reviews trying to avoid spoilers, so I never got to the meat of their arguments, but I cannot comprehend the existence of any rational complaint. For all of the deaths Bond has had on his hands (other than Vesper’s) no other in the series comes close to reaching the character depths of Mathis’. As for the Felix-Bond relationship – well, this is a tease. Bond-Felix will have a trilogy of their own. In CR, the agents are introduced and a friendship is sparked. In QOS, it is tested. I am confident that in Bond 23, we will see it established. Can anybody remember any Bond film with as many significant relationships? (Careful not to confuse relationships with mere interactions.) And in the light of so much depth, his emotionally vacant exploit with the vacantly-named Agent Fields (wink, wink) develops its own sense of poignancy, where, in the past, the off-screen meaning behind Bond’s empty relationships was as empty as the on-screen relationships themselves.

The visuals, including Camille and Fields, were luscious, and I loved the artsy introductions to each locale.

Dark Bondian humor – my favorite kind of Bondian humor - is prevalent, and I think has grown even more mature since Casino Royale. Nods to the previous films are sometimes obscure, sometimes obvious, but at all times handled expertly. At last, we’ve figured out how to honor Bond’s (worthy) history with tact and grace.

Additional indication that Bond is growing up are the subtitles for the Non-English dialogue. A nice touch.

Greene is smarm incarnate, and is not underused. He’s used as much as previous Bond villains, only minus the long exposition in which every detail of a fairly simply and narrow-minded plot is painstakingly revealed to us, the audience, via Bond. Personally, I didn’t miss it. Not to mention that Greene lives up to his promise of being a cheap and frighteningly wild foe in combat. Steel-toed boots recommended.

Finally, the Algerian bo’ plot revelation was very satisfying, although it felt a little tacked on and epilogue-like. I’d rather it have been incorporated into the film. I’ll make sure that I see it done that way when I direct a Bond film.

In conclusion:

QoS is a thrilling, visually ground-breaking (decidedly ground shattering for Bond, and to some extent probably probing new territories for cinema as a whole) and welcomed addition to the series.

I feel comfortable saying Quantum of Solace is the first Bond film EVER that can claim to be thematic. Yes, Bond has tinkered with the themes of trust, revenge or guilt before, but they were always treated as passing add-ons that would emerge periodically on an ad-hoc basis as the scene suited. Never before have we seen them woven into the structure of a film, subtly and powerfully. After leaving the film I felt that not only had I been treated to a high-wire, taught and stylish action experience, I also felt that I had been delivered a message that was never physically spoken.

Unless I’m mistaken, that’s something only good movies are able to do.



You've come pretty close to expressing what I had felt about the movie.

#19 Tarl_Cabot

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 04:59 PM

Crackin' review Judo.Very nicely written(like a pro).:(

Although I disagree with the " It’s when a handcuffed and closely guarded Bond disables three agents (who must know his penchant for physical defiance) in an elevator that my suspension of disbelief is broken."

I thought that was believable for an action film. Bond is trained for escape and evasion, extreme situation self defense and offense.He does get cut and bloodied quite often despite seeming invincible.Bond movies have always require alot of suspension of disbelief™ and this one demanded less than usual for me. :)
However, The parachute jump was a little incongruant for this era but it wasn't tsunami surfing bad....

Anyway, I think you made as great a case as anyone for why this one deserves a thumps up or is it a see it™ now? Oh they canceled Ebert and Roeper didn't they? :)

#20 Judo chop

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 05:01 PM

You've come pretty close to expressing what I had felt about the movie.

Thanks, Doc. What did I miss? Or what don’t you agree with?

#21 Judo chop

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 05:22 PM

Although I disagree with the " It’s when a handcuffed and closely guarded Bond disables three agents (who must know his penchant for physical defiance) in an elevator that my suspension of disbelief is broken."

I thought that was believable for an action film. Bond is trained for escape and evasion, extreme situation self defense and offense.He does get cut and bloodied quite often despite seeming invincible.Bond movies have always require alot of suspension of disbelief™ and this one demanded less than usual for me. :(

I know I’ll probably be in the minority with this opinion (calling the elevator scene excessive while accepting the freefalling, rope-swinging and the like).

I just really felt after Bond had been detained that, well… he had been detained. I wasn’t expecting the script to free him so suddenly, and it was more of a ‘huh?’ surprise than a ‘HELL YEAH!’ surprise when it did.

Maybe I’ll like it more next time. There’s a good chance that I’ll view many parts of the film differently after repeat viewings. It certainly worked that way for me in CR.

#22 ACE

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 05:22 PM

Good work, Judo Chop. :(

#23 Tarl_Cabot

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 05:36 PM

Although I disagree with the " It’s when a handcuffed and closely guarded Bond disables three agents (who must know his penchant for physical defiance) in an elevator that my suspension of disbelief is broken."

I thought that was believable for an action film. Bond is trained for escape and evasion, extreme situation self defense and offense.He does get cut and bloodied quite often despite seeming invincible.Bond movies have always require alot of suspension of disbelief™ and this one demanded less than usual for me. :(

I know I’ll probably be in the minority with this opinion (calling the elevator scene excessive while accepting the freefalling, rope-swinging and the like).

I just really felt after Bond had been detained that, well… he had been detained. I wasn’t expecting the script to free him so suddenly, and it was more of a ‘huh?’ surprise than a ‘HELL YEAH!’ surprise when it did.

Maybe I’ll like it more next time. There’s a good chance that I’ll view many parts of the film differently after repeat viewings. It certainly worked that way for me in CR.


It was a hell yeah moment for me! :)

#24 Harmsway

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 09:13 PM

Hindsight is 20/20 and it was a bad move to remove Kleinman. Oh well.

Well, maybe. I doubt that with Kleinman we would have gotten the very creative location cards, which I loved. So just for the location cards, I'm glad MK12 did the flick, even though I thought the title sequence was a bust.

As for the freefall sequence: I loved it.

I'm honestly surprised. I defended it in concept as soon as we got wind of the freefall sequence, but in execution, I just didn't buy it. The effects work wasn't as good as it needed to be to make it convincing, and it all felt rather unnecessary. It didn't even feel as real as Brosnan's HALO jump sequence in TOMORROW NEVER DIES (which was far more effective, really), or even as tangible as the sequence in MOONRAKER.

But, you know… I enjoyed the jittery action in the Bourne Ultimatum so much more on DVD than I did in the theaters. Perhaps the boat scene will translate better to a smaller screen?

I don't think the problem with the boat chase is the camera. I just don't think it's very exciting, period. The staging of it all is rather pedestrian.

As for that line, I thought it was actually a believable pre-kill quip for a Bond that really never engages in such behavior, given his rage over the fate of his good friend. But I see what you mean about it being awkward, as it does cost Bond a cool 3 seconds, and this is a ruthlessly efficient Bond on a ruthlessly efficient mission.

I had no problem with the line, just the context. Why would Bond bother take the time necessary to say it, especially to shout it through a windshield?!

I absolutely love the shots of Craig driving away after it's all over, with one of Arnold's better tracks playing.

I do too. I just wish the sequence that preceded it had been exciting.

#25 Judo chop

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 09:39 PM

Hindsight is 20/20 and it was a bad move to remove Kleinman. Oh well.

Well, maybe. I doubt that with Kleinman we would have gotten the very creative location cards, which I loved. So just for the location cards, I'm glad MK12 did the flick, even though I thought the title sequence was a bust.

I hadn’t considered the cards were also MK12’s work. Thanks for pointing that out. I loved them too – very classy, very mature - and I think I probably agree that I’d take those over a fantastic TS, if I had to choose.

As for the freefall sequence: I loved it.

I'm honestly surprised. I defended it in concept as soon as we got wind of the freefall sequence, but in execution, I just didn't buy it. The effects work wasn't as good as it needed to be to make it convincing, and it all felt rather unnecessary. It didn't even feel as real as Brosnan's HALO jump sequence in TOMORROW NEVER DIES (which was far more effective, really), or even as tangible as the sequence in MOONRAKER.

Well, you seem pretty settled in your opinion. All I can say is that I remember really loving the fall sequence. I’ve got another viewing planned for this Thursday and we’ll just see…

But, you know… I enjoyed the jittery action in the Bourne Ultimatum so much more on DVD than I did in the theaters. Perhaps the boat scene will translate better to a smaller screen?

I don't think the problem with the boat chase is the camera. I just don't think it's very exciting, period. The staging of it all is rather pedestrian.

I really had a much harder time reading the action, and so I’ll still blame the camera, but could be a problem with both. I liked the boat ramming, and Camille’s clothesline trick. I wish I had understood the anchor trick, but the physics just didn’t register to me. For that I blame the editing. I mean, something happened to make the boat flip, but they wouldn’t let me see what.

#26 Mister Asterix

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 10:11 PM

Excellent, thought-provoking stuff, Judo (as I've come to expect from you). I do think you may be overrating it slightly - your observation that PoS (as The Haters™ would call it) is "to some extent probably probing new territories for cinema as a whole" had me raising my eyebrows Roger Moore-style.

I suppose I could have just said "they did something new and used this cool wind tunnel training apparatus to simulate a freefall action sequence in the film", but you know...

I like the dramatic. Hehe. :)


I’d say they were ‘probing new territories for cinema as a whole’. Perhaps not the deep intrusive probe, but a small, less-painful probe. :(

I see Quantum of Solace as the forefront of the action genre right now and making a slight advance in to new territory. As I said in my review, it’s taking what , um... That Other Spy Series© did and going a bit further. Sure it’s stepping on others’ gains but then it’s adding to it.