278 replies to this topic

[Publius]

The 80s were a sliding scale of interest(It shows best on that bar chart for Admissions that K1Bond007 had somewhere) Until Goldeneye, which put the Bond films back in the top 5. Credit to Brozza for his part in that.

Sorry, I always forget to link it.

http://k1bond007.sha..._admissions.png

And while I credit Brosnan for being a capable Bond that kept the series going, I won't credit him for something as specific as the franchise's commercial turnaround, especially since so many other variables were at play. I think Bond's absence for 6.5 years and the return to fall releases would have been enough to make even a Dalton Goldeneye gross 80-90% of what it actually did. And who knows, maybe it would have made more, as Dalton is often described as a Bond ahead of his time.

it's criminal for killing off Carver BEFORE henchman Stamper,

I think having the henchman linger around after the villain has been killed is keeping with Bond tradition: Tee Hee, Nick Nack, Jaws... and while Rosa Klebb isn't a henchman, she is a secondary enemy to Grant, despite being his superior.

[BoogieBond]

The 80s were a sliding scale of interest(It shows best on that bar chart for Admissions that K1Bond007 had somewhere) Until Goldeneye, which put the Bond films back in the top 5. Credit to Brozza for his part in that.

Sorry, I always forget to link it.

http://k1bond007.sha..._admissions.png

Thats brilliant thanks Forgot what awesome box office Goldfinger and Thunderball did.

[hilly]

Over-rated- Dr No

I know its the birth of a cinematic legend etc etc etc, but the script is clunky, the incidental music is melodramatic, Ursula Andress is wooden and some of the action seems a bit stagey

Under-rated- Octopussy
Leave aside the Benny Hill elements and Roger looking a little elderly and you have amazing action scenes, moments of great tension some great contrasting villains (Steven Berkoff and Louis Jourdan) and a plot that hops across continents. Great stuff

[ChrissBond007]

Most overrated: The Spy Who Loved Me

It's rated as Moore's best Bondfilm, but I personally would say it is Moore's weakest. Doesn't mean I didn't like the film, but when you watch the imdb ratings this one is in the top 5 Bondmovies, while many order Bondfilms are highly underrated! I like the first half, especially the pre title and the introduction of Jaws. But I didn't like the second half much.

Most underrated: On Her Majesty's Secret Service & For Your Eyes Only

OHMSS is my favourite Bondfilm of all time, but the reason that it is underrated is because Lazenby did only one film and many people say that he was bad as Bond. I would not agree, Lazenby was exellent in the role and it will be always a shame that he didn't play the role again in Diamonds Are Forever. Everything is great about the film and it must be rated higher!

FYEO because it is the best Moore Bondfilm, in my opinion. It's a great down the earh Bondfilm, with a great story, great cast and probably the most action scenes of all the Bondfilms. Why it isn't rated higher?

There are of course many other Bondfilms that are highly underrated!

Edited by ChrissBond007, 14 August 2008 - 10:51 PM.

[Mercator]

Most Overrated: Russia With Love, Thunderball and YOLT
Terry Young was a sloppy director with bad performances from most supportin cast.
Daniela Bianchi and Lotte Lenya cant act. Thunderball is all over the place with that slow underwater stuff. YOLT copies Dr No and science fiction films and Matt Helm and Derek Flint.

Most Underrated: Man With Gold Gun, Moonraker
Sir Moore is underrated as Bond and these are great fun adventures with great effects and acting and Sir M007re at his best (my favorite is Spy The Loves Me but figure everybody loves this movie!)

[Mister E]

In your opinion, to which you are entitled. But I don't share it. Please respect my right - and that of others - to disagree with you without resorting to subjective nonsense like "a heap of dog crap". And when did "soap opera" acting become a dirty term? I can't speak for the US, but in Britain one can see a far higher standard of acting 5 times a week in even a routine episode of EastEnders or Coronation Street than one will spending the best part of £100 for a seat in the West End.

I call it like I see it and if you don't like it, too bad for you. I have every right to call something crap. That dosen't hurt your opinion, it just differs from mine. As "soap operas" goes, I can't speak for the UK but I have seen US soaps and spanish "novelas" and it was that low level for TWINE.

[Mister E]

Dearest Mister E, I suspect a stupid little school boy would indeed behave differently. And the scene with Electra screaming and kicking like a child were due to her claustrophobia, experienced during her kidnapping and reliving it here again. It is perfectly fine if your opinion of Brosnan´s acting is "silly soap opera acting". But I respectfully disagree.

There is acting hysterical and then there is just acting stupid. That scene was the latter.

It tried to make Bond more sensitive than in most other Bond films. So it very much departed from Fleming´s creation. I, actually, do appreciate EON taking risks with the character and trying to bring out different facettes. Sometimes they work for more people, sometimes they don´t. Right now, the Craig-Bond is more hard-edged and brutal. And this is en vogue now. I´m very curious to see how he will develop in "QOS".

Having new ideas dosen't mean anything unless you give them depth. TWINE just made the characters weak and stupid.

The Brosnan era re-esblished the franchise to something approaching its 1960s zenith

How so ? Brosnan's Bond films were generic action flicks with Brosnan himself just a logo. Every other scene had an uncreative and loud action sequence and most of the time, Bond was running around with a machine gun in his hand.

[Mr. Blofeld]

Most Overrated: Russia With Love
Terry Young was a sloppy director with bad performances from most supportin cast.
Daniela Bianchi and Lotte Lenya cant act.

If you don't even know the proper title of the film, then why do you pose to be such an authority on it?

[Cruiserweight]

In your opinion, to which you are entitled. But I don't share it. Please respect my right - and that of others - to disagree with you without resorting to subjective nonsense like "a heap of dog crap". And when did "soap opera" acting become a dirty term? I can't speak for the US, but in Britain one can see a far higher standard of acting 5 times a week in even a routine episode of EastEnders or Coronation Street than one will spending the best part of £100 for a seat in the West End.

I call it like I see it and if you don't like it, too bad for you. I have every right to call something crap. That dosen't hurt your opinion, it just differs from mine. As "soap operas" goes, I can't speak for the UK but I have seen US soaps and spanish "novelas" and it was that low level for TWINE.

But there are ways to state your opinion without resorting to calling something crap.

[Harmsway]

How is it people can say this with a straight face about Moore, Brosnan, or any other actor? Whether you like them or not, there's no way of knowing how successful another actor would have been in the role instead.

Indeed.

But there are ways to state your opinion without resorting to calling something crap.

I say call it like you see it. There's no real reason one need be polite to a film. It's a flick. And yes, I do think TWINE is a steaming pile o' crap.

[MarkA]

I am afraid like all these discussions on this site it has generated a sensible and constructive back and forth debate of the merits of the different eras of Bond. But also that usual immature minority who can't say anything more intelligent than something is crap have also reared their ugly heads again. Is it me or does anyone else find this quite depressing. Please respect that people have different and equally valid opinions than you, and argue your case constructively. Boy sometimes this site is sad.

[Mister E]

But there are ways to state your opinion without resorting to calling something crap.

I say call it like you see it. There's no real reason one need be polite to a film. It's a flick. And yes, I do think TWINE is a steaming pile o' crap.

Thank you.

I am afraid like all these discussions on this site it has generated a sensible and constructive back and forth debate of the merits of the different eras of Bond. But also that usual immature minority who can't say anything more intelligent than something is crap have also reared their ugly heads again. Is it me or does anyone else find this quite depressing. Please respect that people have different and equally valid opinions than you, and argue your case constructively. Boy sometimes this site is sad.

There is nothing immature about calling something crap because guess what ? Adults say nasty things but I say nasty things and I have explained why I said them. Some people here just seem to be too sensitive around here and cry some silly oppression on the Brosnan era.

Edited by Mister E, 15 August 2008 - 01:41 AM.

[Publius]

But also that usual immature minority who can't say anything more intelligent than something is crap have also reared their ugly heads again.

Well, they have said something more intelligent than that. They presented their arguments, it's just that their conclusion (for themselves) is that it's crap. I don't see them putting others down.

And I deal with all the LTK flogging.

[The Richmond Spy]

But also that usual immature minority who can't say anything more intelligent than something is crap have also reared their ugly heads again.

Well, they have said something more intelligent than that. They presented their arguments, it's just that their conclusion (for themselves) is that it's crap. I don't see them putting others down.

And I deal with all the LTK flogging.

I agree with Publius. Let the haters hate and the lovers love. It's good to have differing opinions of what works in Bond films. No one is wrong.

[Safari Suit]

I am afraid like all these discussions on this site it has generated a sensible and constructive back and forth debate of the merits of the different eras of Bond. But also that usual immature minority who can't say anything more intelligent than something is crap have also reared their ugly heads again. Is it me or does anyone else find this quite depressing. Please respect that people have different and equally valid opinions than you, and argue your case constructively. Boy sometimes this site is sad.

Not to be unpleasant, but haven't you done the same in the past?

[Mercator]

Most Overrated: Russia With Love
Terry Young was a sloppy director with bad performances from most supportin cast.
Daniela Bianchi and Lotte Lenya cant act.

If you don't even know the proper title of the film, then why do you pose to be such an authority on it?

Since when we gotta use full titles on here huh?
I dont say I'm such an authority on FRWL - just posted what I figured was overrated. Stay on topic please.
The teaser makes no sense - puttin a mask on the dude! All that gypsy camp stuff after the fight so slow. Bad effects - models and back projection. Bianchi and Lenye are dubbed. The song sucks - schmaltzy. I know supposed to be a clasic but no never got why people love it.

Edited by Mercator, 15 August 2008 - 08:51 AM.

[MarkA]

Not to be unpleasant, but haven't you done the same in the past?

I agree I have very strong views about what I like and don't like. (e.g. I am not, as is well known a huge fan of Roger Moore's Bond) but I do realise there are a lot of people that are huge fans of his interpretation, and also each film has their fans and supporters that to call something a steaming pile of crap is not constructive and quite mean-spirited

[Jim]

Not to be unpleasant, but haven't you done the same in the past?

I agree I have very strong views about what I like and don't like. (e.g. I am not, as is well known a huge fan of Roger Moore's Bond) but I do realise there are a lot of people that are huge fans of his interpretation, and also each film has their fans and supporters that to call something a steaming pile of crap is not constructive and quite mean-spirited

But beautiful blooms may grow with the help of steaming piles of crap. Steaming piles of crap are intrinsically constructive. For example, that steaming pile of crap A View to a Kill leads to the wonderment that is The Living Daylights. A blossoming, indeed. That steaming pile of crap Die Another Day leads to Casino Royale. Once they know that they are faced with a steaming pile of crap then they don't get complacent. It's when they believe that they've done something worthwhile that they get terribly, terribly lazy (1981 - 1985). In short, steaming piles of crap are vital.

I have now written the phrase "steaming pile of crap" far more than I would have expected in this life. Which is, I hasten to add, not a steaming pile of crap.

[stamper]

Whatever your theory, you can't make me eat steaming piles of crap. I'll always vomit.

[Richard]

I am afraid like all these discussions on this site it has generated a sensible and constructive back and forth debate of the merits of the different eras of Bond. But also that usual immature minority who can't say anything more intelligent than something is crap have also reared their ugly heads again. Is it me or does anyone else find this quite depressing. Please respect that people have different and equally valid opinions than you, and argue your case constructively. Boy sometimes this site is sad.

My constructive reasoning ...

Roger Moore was never given much character development to work with, unfortunately, but I always enjoyed him as Bond. His presence in those films is what I enjoy the most about them. I thought he was better than the poor quality writing he was stuck with, much of the time.

The most under-rated is On Her Majesty's Secret Service.

There have been some low points, but the most over-rated is Casino Royale (2006). Despite compelling action and a persuasive performance from Daniel Craig (an excellent actor), it is like a low IQ's idea of what a Bond film should be. They should have restored civility and mutual respect between M and Bond, allow Bond to be intelligent enough to be a spy, cut out 50% of the expository dialog, lose the cell phones, replace the airport sequence with a strategy at the card table, save the hostility between the sexes for some other movie, and foreshadow Vesper's betrayal at the beginning. Then it would at least be acceptable as a Bond movie.

Sorry.

Richard

Edited by Richard, 15 August 2008 - 03:23 PM.

[goose007]

Over- A View to a Kill.
Under- Licence to Kill

[PrinceKamalKhan]

What is, in your opinions, the most overrated and underrated Bond film?

The most overrated Bond film is For Your Eyes Only. Yes, it's a decent film. Yes it's an acceptable debut for John Glen as director. Yes, back to earth is the only place EON could take Bond after Moonraker. Yes, it was the most faithful to Fleming Bond film since On Her Majesty’s Secret Service. Yes, there are some beautiful locations. Yes, there are some good actors and supporting characters(Melina, Lisl, Colombo). Yes, it was a good idea to have some Cold War espionage again.

However, this adequate and reasonably entertaining film gets often ranked as equal to or better than such true classics as From Russia With Love, Thunderball and On Her Majesty’s Secret Service, 3 superior films it seems to imitate in many ways(Cold War espionage, underwater scenes, skiing scenes) but is not as good as. I remember reading one review of Casino Royale that praised it by saying something along the lines of "it's the best Bond film since For Your Eyes Only!" Well, I hoped CR would be a lot better than that and it was.

Bottom line: An excellent episode of The Saint? Definitely. But a great Bond film and standardbearer for the series? Hardly.

Most underrated

Moonraker. Often attacked for its juvenile humor and lack of fidelity to Fleming, MR just goes in the DAF(and to a certain extent, GF) approach to Bond movie making and takes it to its logical conclusion. It's a lavish, fun filled treat for the eyes with Moore at the top of his form here. I can understand folks who dislike all the other Moore films or 1970s Bond films disliking MR. But if you're a Moore fan, what's not to love? He's in his prime, gorgeous locations, impressive action sequences, good-looking women, fun humor, great special effects. It's "action comedy" era Bond at its best.

PKK

P.S. I think the moderators should add a poll for us to vote for our picks for both most underrated and most overrated.

[Colibri]

Overrrated: Goldfinger

Underrated: Moonraker

Edited by Colibri, 19 November 2008 - 10:22 PM.

[DR76]

For me, the most overrated film is GOLDFINGER. It's not the best or worst Bond film I have seen. But I think that it is vastly overrated by critics and Bond fans. At least to me. As I have pointed out in previous posts, GOLDFINGER has a lot of style and great music. But I think that its storyline is filled with plot holes. And most of the characters are flamboyant and memorable, but not well written.


As for the most underrated film, for me it is MOONRAKER. Now, I don't think that MOONRAKER is the greatest Bond film ever. It seemed, at best, entertaining but mediocre. But many critics and fans tend to view this movie as one of the worst Bond films in the franchise. I have seen worse. The only real flaws in this film - at least for me - were Moore's female co-stars and the finale in space.

Edited by DR76, 19 November 2008 - 05:17 PM.

[Mister E]

Overrated: LICENCE TO KILL,THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS, GOLDENEYE and ON HER MAJESTY's SECRET SERVICE.

Underrated: OCTOPUSSY, and DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER.

[DamnCoffee]

Overrated: Goldfinger
Underrated: Quantum of Solace, On Her Majesty's Secret Service.

[QOS007]

Overated- For Your Eyes Only, while Melina looked great she sounded awful
Underrated- The Living Daylights, by far one of the best because it had everything we know Bond does, and what an awesome soundtrack that was

[draxingtonstanley]

It pains me to say it,as it sits so fondly in my memory,but For Your Eyes Only. It used to be in my top five,but I was shocked on my last viewing at how flat and ponderous it was. Some great action scenes,but a very unsatisfying whole. And a delicatessen in stainless steel. And a parrot. talking to Margaret Thatcher...
I'm tempted to say Licence To Kill and View To A Kill,but they come in for a good deal of criticism(with which I mainly agree) so don't qualify as overrated in my book.

Underrated: I'm going to have to go with Octopussy. The last time I saw it was hugely entertaining,a bizarre Cold war meets Errol Flynn swashbuckling tale. I'm a huge Flashman fan,so the late,great George MacDonald Frasier's involvement is a massive plus for me. It would have been a good one for Roger Moore to bow out on(that or Moonraker). I have to mention Live And Let Die as well:it comes in for a lot of flak,but for me Roger's finest hour as Bond.

[NecroVMX]

Most overrated? That's easy. It's "The Spy Who Loved Me" I never liked Roger Moore, and people seem to think this was his best one (I personally think it's not his worst, but it doesn't hold a candle to LALD)

Most underrated? That's also easy, The Living Daylights. People need to give Dalton more props, he was great, and so was the film.

[Auric64]

Most overrated - Casino Royale. It's a very good film (and a proper film) but one would think it had cured cancer, found Atlantis and made everyone more beautiful, paid off all our mortgages and rendered our puppies immortal.

Funny that, I feel the same way about Quantum of Solace.

Underrated? The Man with the Golden Gun. Moore`s second best Bond film for me, (after LALD) with good old Rog still showing signs of Bond toughness that would be missing, (to a large extent) from SPY onwards. A great villian in Christopher Lee, (Jack Palance would have been awful - had Mankiewicz gotten his way) and the only film that has, IMO, actually bettered a Fleming novel of the same name.

Sure, Britt Ekland isn`t the best Moore Bond, (or best Bond girl ever) but she gives a better, more natural performance and a lightness of touch that I find missing from Barbara Bach, Lois Chiles, Carole Bouquet, Tanya Roberts and, to a lesser extent, Maud Adams in Octopussy.

A really good Barry score, exotic locations, (used better than in TND) and a really good "stunt" (the car jump) which everyone remembers, even if they can`t remember the film.

I`d happily put and watch Golden Gun over Quantum of Solace any day.

Best

Andy