187 replies to this topic

[plankattack]

I'd like to think I'm neither a Dodgeian or Zorinian, but a Plank.

How many novels could really be readapted? I count six that have been done quite faithfully - some short stories have been butchered and patched - so what novel (complete at least in spirit - CR) would make a good adaptation?

I count one, maybe two (YOLT which I think would be a terrific film). Everything else, if brought to screen faithfully, would smell as if they had been done before. Everyone talks about MR but an adaptation of that would feel like a pastiche of three movies. LALD - been there, done that! I just had to watch a couple of movies to get it all.

Planks all know that the novels have been cut and pasted into the films in a fashion almost beyond belief. So once you go down that road, there is no choice but to continue. Is that right? Of course not, but us Planks would rather have things that at least try to honour Fleming (weekly obligatory defense of TWINE inserted here) thancompletely ignore him (weekly shot at TND duly inserted here).

Fleming will run out one day - I just hope that 007 lives on.

[Zorin Industries]

[/quote]
I offer the Dodgeians vigorous opinions that can cure Male Pattern Baldness, melt love handles away in days and even vanquish cellulite and speed up alimony checks.
[/quote]

Were you Connery's PA on NEVER SAY NEVER AGAIN....?!!

I send you nothing but love, Dodge! It's good to get some debate on these shores. I really can't keep answering questions like how old were you when Roger Moore was on that chatshow and where are you buying a your copy of CASINO ROYALE - it's not like it's not going to be everywhere before the end of the month.

[00Twelve]

Good question, plank. And good point.

Here's the list I'd like to see...

LALD - Mix n' match just completely kills the spirit of the story, IMO. I don't care if it's been bastardized into several different movies, I think it'd be 100% more effective as one story. And it's amazing that we haven't had a villain die Mr. Big's real death so far!

MR - I understand the point here. I'd be more excited about this one if we hadn't had Goldeneye and Die Another Day so recently. Still, I'd be there in a heartbeat if it were done as it should have been.

DAF - Bond vs. organized underground crime. Criminally missed opportunity, pun intended. With the spectacle that Vegas has become (and how territorial governments have gotten), I see this as ripe with opportunity. And they could actually make the closeted assassins creepy instead of campy. "Look, they're holding hands and frolicking away from the murder scene! Awwww!"

Dr. No - Again, would love to see this with the explosive last act that was missed.

Blofeld trilogy - minus campy baldness, pointless cat, and including the revenge story.

TMWTGG - More than just the villain's name, please.

[plankattack]

I send you nothing but love, Dodge! It's good to get some debate on these shores. I really can't keep answering questions like how old were you when Roger Moore was on that chatshow and where are you buying a your copy of CASINO ROYALE - it's not like it's not going to be everywhere before the end of the month.

I'm nearly at one hundred posts (clearly a big deal for me) but today's debate has me salivating at the next one hundred. Of course, you all might feel a little differently.

Well said Zorin! And Dodge and Twelve and Santajo. What a fun place to be at today!

[Judo chop]

How many novels could really be readapted? I count six that have been done quite faithfully - some short stories have been butchered and patched - so what novel (complete at least in spirit - CR) would make a good adaptation?

I count one, maybe two (YOLT which I think would be a terrific film). Everything else, if brought to screen faithfully, would smell as if they had been done before. Everyone talks about MR but an adaptation of that would feel like a pastiche of three movies. LALD - been there, done that! I just had to watch a couple of movies to get it all.

Planks all know that the novels have been cut and pasted into the films in a fashion almost beyond belief. So once you go down that road, there is no choice but to continue. Is that right? Of course not, but us Planks would rather have things that at least try to honour Fleming (weekly obligatory defense of TWINE inserted here) thancompletely ignore him (weekly shot at TND duly inserted here).

Fleming will run out one day - I just hope that 007 lives on.

Consider me a plankian then. Your thoughts above pretty much mirror my first post in the thread.

(I am certain any similarities are the result of two minds drawn to the same truth, and I give you full credit for originality!)

Proud member of the

[Safari Suit]

Blofeld trilogy - minus campy baldness, pointless cat, and including the revenge story.

So being bald is considered campy now

[dodge]

I'd like to think I'm neither a Dodgeian or Zorinian, but a Plank.

How many novels could really be readapted? I count six that have been done quite faithfully - some short stories have been butchered and patched - so what novel (complete at least in spirit - CR) would make a good adaptation?
I count one, maybe two (YOLT which I think would be a terrific film). Everything else, if brought to screen faithfully, would smell as if they had been done before. Everyone talks about MR but an adaptation of that would feel like a pastiche of three movies. LALD - been there, done that! I just had to watch a couple of movies to get it all.

Planks all know that the novels have been cut and pasted into the films in a fashion almost beyond belief. So once you go down that road, there is no choice but to continue. Is that right? Of course not, but us Planks would rather have things that at least try to honour Fleming (weekly obligatory defense of TWINE inserted here) thancompletely ignore him (weekly shot at TND duly inserted here).

Fleming will run out one day - I just hope that 007 lives on.

Bravo, Plank, on your 100th post! Could you kindly which are the six films that you feel adhered faithfully to Fleming? I'm aware of three...Maybe Dodgeianism, despite the miracles it offers, does has certain limits.

[00Twelve]

Blofeld trilogy - minus campy baldness, pointless cat, and including the revenge story.

So being bald is considered campy now

LOL, Safari...being 100% bald just for the point of looking "more menacing" is lost on me. Blofeld as perfectly intimidating on paper. And that had to be why they did it, there's no other reason. Ok, sorry, digression over.

[Skudor]

The only reason EON Productions has remade "CASINO ROYALE" is because it was the only Fleming title that had not been filmed by them. After all, they had recently acquired the rights to it.

But since there are plenty of sources for Bond movies - the Gardner and Benson novels, why bother making remakes . . . or readapting the Fleming titles?

Because they are vastly superior!

Are we talking about the cash-in novels or the Fleming originals?

Regarding the former titles I would say - and I will be honest and say I have not read all of them in great depth - but what I have reeks of a Middle England pedestalling of "upper class" minutae - particularly the Gardner books. Fleming was genuinely from that world and hence able to comment on it.

The Gardner novels I've read came across like they were written by a new Bond fan still excited about the trappings of the character and his world, but not entirely sure of the nuances, subtleties and tone of 007.

That's just my opinion.

Fleming, obviously. I have read all the Fleming novels and enjoyed them. What I've read from the rest has been decidedly mediocre.

[plankattack]

Opinions abound on what could be remade and what couldn't:

I agree with Twelve that DAF and TMWGG have potential, especially with DC as Bond. TMWGG especially would work with a strong actor as the adversory. I still remain against LALD for my aforementioned reasons - the damage has been done.

Going back into the Blofeld trilogy has some promise but here is where I would have problems as.....

OHMSS is one of the books that got a good treatment (I think in Watkin and Lavington's book they opine that the screenplay is better than the book). We have DN, FRWL, GF, TB, and then CR that I feel exist as decent adaptations, rather than bastardizations of the source.

So with OHMSS and TB done well, how do you handle YOLT. Unless you tie it emotionally to Vesper and make it Bond 22.....

[Skudor]

....

So with OHMSS and TB done well, how do you handle YOLT. Unless you tie it emotionally to Vesper and make it Bond 22.....

Exactly. I think that could work, if they desperately wanted to do YOLT. It's a weird little book and hard to imagine (at least for me, quickly) in the modern world (with the diving girls etc.) and Japan would probably have to be replaced with something else... But as a journey for Bond it would suit Craig perfectly.

It would also be another 'different' Bond film but firmly based on Fleming, making it palatable.

They would probably have to use a fair bit of screen time establishing who the bad guy is as there is no existing character, such as Blofeld, to pick from in Casino Royale.

In short, they could probably not quite get away with a faithful adaption, but some sort of adaption of the main themes in the book would work --> Reclusive villain, Bond on revenge but official mission, some innocent local girl helping him out, total crash at the end leaving us wondering whether he's still alive... all crowned with Bond getting brainwashed and going after M in B23!

I'm salivating at the idea of Craig tackling all that!

[00Twelve]

I admit, plank, my affinity for an LALD movie is primarily due to my overwhelming love for the novel. I just wanna see it as it should have been.

[plankattack]

....

So with OHMSS and TB done well, how do you handle YOLT. Unless you tie it emotionally to Vesper and make it Bond 22.....

Exactly. I think that could work, if they desperately wanted to do YOLT. It's a weird little book and hard to imagine (at least for me, quickly) in the modern world (with the diving girls etc.) and Japan would probably have to be replaced with something else... But as a journey for Bond it would suit Craig perfectly.

It would also be another 'different' Bond film but firmly based on Fleming, making it palatable.

They would probably have to use a fair bit of screen time establishing who the bad guy is as there is no existing character, such as Blofeld, to pick from in Casino Royale.

In short, they could probably not quite get away with a faithful adaption, but some sort of adaption of the main themes in the book would work --> Reclusive villain, Bond on revenge but official mission, some innocent local girl helping him out, total crash at the end leaving us wondering whether he's still alive... all crowned with Bond getting brainwashed and going after M in B23!

I'm salivating at the idea of Craig tackling all that!

I agree about YOLT and the fact Craig is an actor (and I'm not knocking any of the others) who is capable of bringing Fleming's Bond to the screen, in an era when, unlike for TD, the audience appear to be ready. I wonder how many people actually decided to read CR, or any Bond novel, for the first time after seeing CR.

And Twelve, I feel your pain!

[Santa]

Well said Zorin! And Dodge and Twelve and Santajo. What a fun place to be at today!

I'm particularly pleased at being given a credit here as I've not really been here today . I'd also like to state for the record that I'm neither a plank nor dodgy. I'm actually pretty cool.

[morganhavoc]

I think it would fit Craig's next Bond film to be called Licenses Renewed. Not based on the Gardner novel, but it would seem to fit. Second film. Bond seemed to be on shakey ground with M in CR, almost as if his OO status was probationary. Bond 22 will solidify Craig as Bond and Bond as a OO.

Not that I think it will happen or any of the other items discussed in this thread, EON does things it's own way.

[Santa]

Is it worth asking how they renewing his licence in B22 if it didn't run out in CR?

[dodge]

Well said Zorin! And Dodge and Twelve and Santajo. What a fun place to be at today!

I'm particularly pleased at being given a credit here as I've not really been here today . I'd also like to state for the record that I'm neither a plank nor dodgy. I'm actually pretty cool.

Well, there goes your chocolate bar and the two surfer gods your were destined to meet.

[Santa]

Well said Zorin! And Dodge and Twelve and Santajo. What a fun place to be at today!

I'm particularly pleased at being given a credit here as I've not really been here today . I'd also like to state for the record that I'm neither a plank nor dodgy. I'm actually pretty cool.

Well, there goes your chocolate bar and the two surfer gods your were destined to meet.

Damn it! I agree with most of what you say, though. Plank, 12 and you.

[Skudor]

I didn't realise there were pimps on the site.

Know any "available" girls dodge?

[MHazard]

Okay, if I were Bond Movie Emperor (Great job hey?) I would:

-make the next movie a re-make of Diamonds Are Forever with Daniel Craig. This would establish his character as the mid-period Bond.

-have the next movie be a re-adaptation of either OHMSS or YOLT. My preference would be YOLT with a flashback to the end (probably re-filmed of OHMSS) also with Craig. I would love to see an OHMSS with Craig in it, but I agree the original was so good even with Lazenby and faithful to the book that it's hard to justify re-doing it.

-followed by a re-make of TMWGG.

Unless, of course, I had Craig for a few more re-adaptations I could sneak in.

Two other comments: Vesper is not Tracy and a YOLT based on revenge for her death doesn't make the same sense. Tracey's loss occurred when Bond was at a different place in his life. Second, I would like to see LALD done properly too, but it seems to me it would be very hard because as written the book may seem racist to 21st Century sensibilites (there are parts of the book that make me wince).

[dodge]

I didn't realise there were pimps on the site.

Know any "available" girls dodge?

Would the young beauty who asked me if I wanted to go on a 'date' last night count? It was cold as hell and rainy out. Why was she wearing a halter and shorts? Women, God love them all, are endless mysteries to me.

[Skudor]

I didn't realise there were pimps on the site.

Know any "available" girls dodge?

Would the young beauty who asked me if I wanted to go on a 'date' last night count? It was cold as hell and rainy out. Why was she wearing a halter and shorts? Women, God love them all, are endless mysteries to me.

I've heard that they are a mystery to themselves as well, which doesn't sound to good.

[00Twelve]

I'll go ahead and specify that I'd personally prefer to go through the Fleming canon in the order they were originally published, rather than tackling the Blofeld trilogy now. While I'd love to see an arc with the villainous organization, that's why we had SMERSH first. I'd like to see the stories that could involve the new organization in a comparable manner. The advantage is that it's not an official agency, and can be more versatile in linking to organized crime (i.e., Diamonds, LALD).

[Judo chop]

So with OHMSS and TB done well, how do you handle YOLT. Unless you tie it emotionally to Vesper and make it Bond 22.....

Well, my plan goes something like this.

The Dodgeian party puts forth a controversial campaign to remake OHMSS as Bond 23 with Craig. They succeed, though take much heat for chipping at the sacred alter consecrated in 1969.

From the fires of fury, a new moderate party arises

[00Twelve]

Alright, as the rep for the further-out-on-the-whichever-wing of the pro-Fleming ideology (this is getting ridiculous! ), I disagree with the aptly-named Dodgy Party on doing those stories now, as they hold much more water for a veteran agent who is wondering whether he's been in his line of work for too long.

[Santa]

I'm getting very confused by this thread, but can happily say I don't really find men that mysterious. They're no trouble.

[dodge]

[quote name='Judo chop' post='710673' date='9 March 2007 - 18:28'][quote name='plankattack' post='710610' date='9 March 2007 - 10:55']So with OHMSS and TB done well, how do you handle YOLT. Unless you tie it emotionally to Vesper and make it Bond 22.....[/quote]

Well, my plan goes something like this.

The Dodgeian party puts forth a controversial campaign to remake OHMSS as Bond 23 with Craig. They succeed, though take much heat for chipping at the sacred alter consecrated in 1969.

[color="#DDA0DD"]From the fires of fury, a new moderate party arises

[00Twelve]

I hate being that guy who is caught between conversations, trying to stay in the game! Plus, "00Twelve" doesn't lend itself gracefully to the formation of a party title. And as a side-note, I feel like such a politician by framing a debate with the term "readaptation" and a refusal to call this idea a bunch of "remakes." (Only because it's true.)

[plankattack]

I hate being that guy who is caught between conversations, trying to stay in the game! Plus, "00Twelve" doesn't lend itself gracefully to the formation of a party title. And as a side-note, I feel like such a politician by framing a debate with the term "readaptation" and a refusal to call this idea a bunch of "remakes." (Only because it's true.)

Twelve, I can only suggest you form a party of your own, a third way perhaps, or maybe even a twelth way.

Judo, I'm with you, though Dodge, I agree and respect your views on OHMSS that even though I feel it's untouchable, I would let you lose as Judo suggests. Yes, I'm seeing it now - DC picking up the shoe on the beach, looking past the camera and saying "I'll get crucified on the web for letting this happen."

Edited by plankattack, 09 March 2007 - 07:02 PM.

[dodge]

I'm getting very confused by this thread, but can happily say I don't really find men that mysterious. They're no trouble.

ahh, my dear, but the best of the worst of us are. We just like you think we're no trouble.

Edited by dodge, 09 March 2007 - 07:05 PM.