Yes, it is clear that Vesper refused to give Bond the extra $5M because she was already being blackmailed and, thus, working for Le Chiffre. It still would have been odd to Bond to be refused like that, but the movie made the CIA offer come so quickly that it was realistic to imagine Bond forgetting that the young associate had just made a major decision that MI6 would never have realistically given her (or a 26 year old man). Imagine a scenario where the CIA never made their offer and Bond just went home because Vesper said the mission could not go on. Does MI6 really let 26 year olds decide such matters? The movie implies that this would have been the case.
The Globe and Mail article says that Craig agreed on the shower scene change with Green and I agree with both of them now that I realize that Vesper wasn't going back to the card game that night. My entire thesis rested on the idea that everyone was taking an hour break.
Believe me, if I could do so, I would edit the title of this thread. The scriptwriters were still probably thinking straight when they assumed a woman who was retiring for the night might pull a restrictive dress off, but this is getting so BORING to discuss. I MEAN REALLY BORING.
In fact, I've changed the original post to wipe out comments I made because I've already been convinced I was wrong. The title of the thread, I repeat, would be rewritten if I could do that.
The more "interesting" element of the thread was the personal criticism I took for what was really a very mild tie in to real life experiences where I did not actually go into my "personal sex life".
Ian Fleming embraced 50's feminism to the degree that it would get women out into the work world where they could be interracted with (and slept with by his character). He would not, however, embrace a society 53 years later where victorianism has been brought back in many ways and where bosses cannot sleep with their personal assistants or where Andrea Dworkin presumably speaks for women (she's dead now). Fleming obviously wouldn't think it strange for a man to buy a woman an evening gown. Vesper borrowed a gown in the book (Bond didn't provide her with any clothing). But he bought her a gown in the movie. If anyone has a problem with men buying women evening gowns, take it to the CR scriptwriters please. ;-)
And a James Bond forum is not a place to argue about feminism. Male chauvinists are an endangered species. Let them leave on the free range of a James Bond forum. ;-)
The rude remark "For someone who talks on and on and on about women" was way out of place on a James Bond forum. Personal attacks just aren't necessary on any forum. But here, they are really anachronistic if they mean to admonish suspected "male chauvinists".
The phrase that referred to the buying of a dress for a woman "slightly creepy" was not meant by the poster to imply that I might be a pervert, but rather, more likely, it meant that she felt it was "unequal" for a man to buy a dress for a woman to accompany him on a business trip. I just noted that "creepy" should never be used to describe the male in a suspected "unequal" adult relationship. Craig is 12 years older than Green in real life and the book made their economic situations vastly different. To me, "creepy" describes the Ashton Kutscher-Demi Moore marriage where Ashton is best friends with Demi's teenage daughters...but I will hold my tongue on that.
If the unofficial rule of this forum is that nobody should talk about their own experiences in similar situations to Bond movie situations, then that makes the site lame. If its supposed to be a "turn off" to certain female site members that some guy actually sees the Bond lifestyle parallel in the business world...then one has to ask what the purpose of these forum members is to being here: discredit Ian Fleming's philosophy on how a man should behave?
Obviously, James Bond wouldn't talk about his own sex life in front of a woman he wants to seduce or befriend (but if the Internet existed in the 50s, he'd probably would make some remarks about dating situations anonymously on a forum before getting bored). But he did say in the film CR "You're not my type. You're single." to a woman he later ended up with.
So if some guy shows up tomorrow on this forum and says "I only sleep with married women," I wouldn't be amused if I saw forum members start to insult him as a "creep." This is a James Bond forum.
If you have a problem with such behavior, take it to the screenwriters or write "slightly creepy" across Ian Fleming's grave.
There are examples where James Bond tells women he wants to seduce about his sex life and they are not turned off. All the more reason not to criticize someone on this forum who mentions he's simply been on accompanied business trips before. It is way out of line to conduct personal character attacks for something as lame and boring as a discussion of the CR shower scene. If I could edit the title of the thread, I would not label Eva Green anymore either.
We were all voyeurs to James Bond's actual escapades. So, in the end, Ian Fleming told us all about it, going "on and on and on about women".
In contrast, all I said was that restrictive business clothing tends to come off in hotel rooms on breaks and I made it clear that there was nothing sexual about it (email normally needs to be read on such breaks). Was I supposed to be bragging about my own sex life by saying that? Or was I supposed to be bragging that I would even go with a woman on a business trip? What if I said I was married? Would that be OK or is the forum too prude even for that?
God forbid I would I have said that I was with another man's wife. Heavens! And on a James Bond forum to boot. :-(
I should go to an evangelical Christian website to talk like that.
Or maybe its just "going off on a tangent" to compare real life with the shower scene in CR. After all, I don't normally kill terrorists in the stairwells of the hotels we stay at.
Although I realize that the left likes to pretend that George Orwell was one of them (Orwell was actually pro-Nixon and pro-Vietnam War), the idea is ridiculous that an Ian Fleming/James Bond forum is any place for prudes or the type of people who keep a close eye out for playboys, perverts or braggarts and stand ready to insult those whom they falsely believe are such.
Fleming was against evil and against political correctness. Unlike Jane Austen, he wasn't into condemning men for not saying the right thing to a woman at the right time. But even Jane Austen, in "Pride and Prejudice", noted how stupid it is to condemn a man for what he says before you really know him.
Incidentally, "Pride and Prejudice" was originally titled "First Impressions."
Edited by VeteransAbroad, 30 November 2006 - 12:12 AM.