Possibly a slightly dumb question
#1
Posted 27 November 2006 - 03:27 AM
...why?
#2
Posted 27 November 2006 - 03:39 AM
#3
Posted 27 November 2006 - 03:46 AM
#4
Posted 27 November 2006 - 03:55 AM
It's also possible that he might have figured out that somebody had to have told Le Chiffre about the tell
That's what I assumed.
#5
Posted 27 November 2006 - 04:19 AM
#6
Posted 27 November 2006 - 12:48 PM
That actually occurs afterwards - when the car crashes, before Bond is tortured.Isn't it because Le Chiffre says "your friend mathis is actually my friend mathis" or something to that effect during the previous scene? (I think the torture scene)
Another question I have about this scene is why Leiter and the CIA haven't made contact with Le Chiffre yet and arrested him. Seems strange that they'd leave him until morning, and seems even stranger still that they wouldn't have him under observation.
#7
Posted 29 November 2006 - 12:40 AM
That actually occurs afterwards - when the car crashes, before Bond is tortured.
Isn't it because Le Chiffre says "your friend mathis is actually my friend mathis" or something to that effect during the previous scene? (I think the torture scene)
My bad....so I guess he just knew because of the whole Le Chiffre "tell" thing during the card game?
#8
Posted 29 November 2006 - 12:48 AM
#9
Posted 29 November 2006 - 12:53 AM
#10
Posted 29 November 2006 - 12:56 AM
They didnt have SMS back in those days i believe lol
Hmm, forgive the American but is SMS just British for text message?
#11
Posted 29 November 2006 - 01:01 AM
on a second viewing, and with Bond's later comment about how somebody must have tipped of Le Chiffre about the tell in mind, I think this must be what went through his head at that moment, as though he had been wondering how lechiffre caught on and then suddenly with all this vaguely suspicious secretive SMS messaging to Vesper, the penny dropped.
not a perfect answer, but it does for me.
and BTW, perhaps I can enter my own entry into the "possibly slightly dumb question" thread....
for the life of me, I can't understand why at the frist interval of the poker game, bond follows le chiffre, collects his gun and seemingly starts an assassination attempt (only to be beaten to his target by the "freedom fighters" whom Le Chiffre owes money)
I just don't see what Bond is trying to achieve!! this seems to contradict the purpose of his mission
Edited by shady ginzo, 29 November 2006 - 01:02 AM.
#12
Posted 29 November 2006 - 01:05 AM
for the life of me, I can't understand why at the frist interval of the poker game, bond follows le chiffre, collects his gun and seemingly starts an assassination attempt (only to be beaten to his target by the "freedom fighters" whom Le Chiffre owes money)
I just don't see what Bond is trying to achieve!! this seems to contradict the purpose of his mission
I figured it was just surveillance - the bug and all - he just took the gun with him because....you know....why not? never know when you'll be assaulted by machete wielding Ugandans.
#13
Posted 29 November 2006 - 01:09 AM
I figured it was just surveillance - the bug and all - he just took the gun with him because....you know....why not? never know when you'll be assaulted by machete wielding Ugandans.
yeah, I didn't think there was a particular goal at all in that scene, as a note I love the way bond so casually just leaves a gun in an envelope at reception. and however well prepared he was for the chance fight he encountered, the only shot the gun actually fired was random and accidental, and bond still slaughters both men! as they say, why should bond sleep with a gun under his pillow, when he could clearly kill you with the pillow
Edited by shady ginzo, 29 November 2006 - 01:10 AM.
#14
Posted 29 November 2006 - 04:16 AM
#15
Posted 29 November 2006 - 05:01 AM
Trust me, I wish I believed it were the case, as it would give a good answer to why Bond suspected Mathis, but that would suggest that Le Chiffre was making some really amateur mistakes in his game, which I find hard to swallow.
As for Bond following Le Chiffre to his room, I think it was just some eavesdropping. He took the gun because I guess it's just better to have one handy.
#16
Posted 29 November 2006 - 05:27 AM
From what I assumed, Le Chiffre had been faking that tell from the very beginning. Given that he was supposedly obsessed with the sport, wouldn't he have studied how he plays over the years to check for such tells? Surely one as obvious as putting your hand to your face would've been picked up by him long ago. And knowing the stakes of such a match, wouldn't Le Chiffre pull every trick in his book, such as a fake tell.
I think it was real. Le Chiffre catches himself doing it for real again later in the game and folds. (The shot when he tosses the cards into camera.)
#17
Posted 29 November 2006 - 11:42 AM
From what I assumed, Le Chiffre had been faking that tell from the very beginning. Given that he was supposedly obsessed with the sport, wouldn't he have studied how he plays over the years to check for such tells? Surely one as obvious as putting your hand to your face would've been picked up by him long ago. And knowing the stakes of such a match, wouldn't Le Chiffre pull every trick in his book, such as a fake tell.
I think it was real. Le Chiffre catches himself doing it for real again later in the game and folds. (The shot when he tosses the cards into camera.)
that is the single reason I believe the tell is genuine, and therefore played a genuine part in mathis' discovery.
#18
Posted 29 November 2006 - 11:48 AM
#19
Posted 29 November 2006 - 12:26 PM
#20
Posted 29 November 2006 - 12:32 PM
#21
Posted 29 November 2006 - 02:52 PM
Could be many reasons, taking suspicion away from Vesper, mental torture etc.
Along these lines, I assumed that le Chiffre was flat out lying about Mathis in order to keep Vesper out of it. Le Chiffre was probably hoping that Bond's love of Vesper would get him to turn over the money, but he knew that if he had said 'Vesper is my friend Vesper', a bargaining chip would be lost (Bond wouldn't act to protect her any more).
Vesper and Le Chiffre knew that by saying Mathis had called her, it would make it easier for Bond to see Mathis as the leak. (Which means that Vesper was in on trying to blame Mathis.)
For no reason whatsoever, I thought that what tipped Bond off to the suspiciousness of that SMS was that he knew Mathis had left town, or something. I assumed Bond knew of a reason why Mathis couldn't have been the one to SMS. And I'm just going to keep thinking that, because it's easiest.
#22
Posted 29 November 2006 - 02:57 PM
As they say, why should bond sleep with a gun under his pillow, when he could clearly kill you with the pillow?
LOL, I think Craig's Bond is about the only one I believe could actually do it!
#23
Posted 29 November 2006 - 03:10 PM
Could be many reasons, taking suspicion away from Vesper, mental torture etc.
Along these lines, I assumed that le Chiffre was flat out lying about Mathis in order to keep Vesper out of it. Le Chiffre was probably hoping that Bond's love of Vesper would get him to turn over the money, but he knew that if he had said 'Vesper is my friend Vesper', a bargaining chip would be lost (Bond wouldn't act to protect her any more).
Vesper and Le Chiffre knew that by saying Mathis had called her, it would make it easier for Bond to see Mathis as the leak. (Which means that Vesper was in on trying to blame Mathis.)
That was exactly the way I took it.
#24
Posted 29 November 2006 - 03:20 PM
Along these lines, I assumed that le Chiffre was flat out lying about Mathis in order to keep Vesper out of it.
[mra]Yes, or possibly Le Chiffre was not talking about the real Mathis, but rather
#25
Posted 29 November 2006 - 03:20 PM
#26
Posted 29 November 2006 - 10:32 PM
I have a theory: Bond brings a gun in case Le Chiffre is in trouble? He wants Le Chiffre alive - that's the mission - and not killed by his organisation. Bond acts as a bodyguard for the villain.
for the life of me, I can't understand why at the frist interval of the poker game, bond follows le chiffre, collects his gun and seemingly starts an assassination attempt (only to be beaten to his target by the "freedom fighters" whom Le Chiffre owes money)
I just don't see what Bond is trying to achieve!! this seems to contradict the purpose of his mission
I figured it was just surveillance - the bug and all - he just took the gun with him because....you know....why not? never know when you'll be assaulted by machete wielding Ugandans.
#27
Posted 29 November 2006 - 10:50 PM
Hmm... To be honest, the first time I saw it, I had no clue either. I just figured it was Bond sense or something. The second time I caught it, I think there might've been something up w/ her saying that Mathis told her that the Americans had just made contact with Le Chiffre. Other then that I'm as clueless as you are, so I guess we're both slightly dumb
You've pretty much got it. The only people who knew that Le Chiffre was going to be picked up by the Americans was Bond, Leiter and Le Chiffre. When Vesper received the text, supposedly from Mathis, there was no reason why Mathis would know about the American plan, therefore Bond smalls a rat. This is the first part of Vesper's betrayal of Bond and the plot to frame Mathis.
#28
Posted 29 November 2006 - 11:03 PM
Could be many reasons, taking suspicion away from Vesper, mental torture etc.
Along these lines, I assumed that le Chiffre was flat out lying about Mathis in order to keep Vesper out of it. Le Chiffre was probably hoping that Bond's love of Vesper would get him to turn over the money, but he knew that if he had said 'Vesper is my friend Vesper', a bargaining chip would be lost (Bond wouldn't act to protect her any more).
Vesper and Le Chiffre knew that by saying Mathis had called her, it would make it easier for Bond to see Mathis as the leak. (Which means that Vesper was in on trying to blame Mathis.)
Except, IIRC Vesper isn't working for Le Chiffre (if she were Le Chiffre wouldn't need to go through the trouble to get the money, Vesper could dump it off to him like she did to her real employer in the movie).
As far as Le Chiffre knows, Vesper is Bond's assistant.
For no reason whatsoever, I thought that what tipped Bond off to the suspiciousness of that SMS was that he knew Mathis had left town, or something. I assumed Bond knew of a reason why Mathis couldn't have been the one to SMS. And I'm just going to keep thinking that, because it's easiest.
I think its fairly straight forward in that there was no reason for Mathis to contact Vesper directly and Bond guessed (a little late) the message was fake. It could also be guessing who tipped Le Chiffre off on his tell.
Either way it didn't even strike me as odd when I saw the film.
I have a theory: Bond brings a gun in case Le Chiffre is in trouble? He wants Le Chiffre alive - that's the mission - and not killed by his organisation. Bond acts as a bodyguard for the villain.
Its been a couple of weeks since I saw the film but doesn't Bond see one of the "Ugandans" watching/following Le Chiffre?
#29
Posted 29 November 2006 - 11:26 PM
No, I cant remember that. They comes as a total surprise to both the audience and Le Chiffre... after Valenka's "I'm sorry".
I have a theory: Bond brings a gun in case Le Chiffre is in trouble? He wants Le Chiffre alive - that's the mission - and not killed by his organisation. Bond acts as a bodyguard for the villain.
Its been a couple of weeks since I saw the film but doesn't Bond see one of the "Ugandans" watching/following Le Chiffre?
#30
Posted 29 November 2006 - 11:30 PM