Delivery of Fleming's last line
#1
Posted 21 November 2006 - 10:13 PM
#2
Posted 21 November 2006 - 10:15 PM
#3
Posted 21 November 2006 - 10:17 PM
#4
Posted 21 November 2006 - 10:20 PM
#5
Posted 21 November 2006 - 10:21 PM
I may end up being in a minority here, but I really don't think it matters as I can't see the line retaining as much power on screen as it does in the book. Not exactly sure why, but it may be a reflection upon 21st century cinema - such a phrase doesn't quite have the same shock value.
Well, I would suppose the real impact should originate from the fact that Bond was in love, and now has ice in place of a heart; not so much that he used a bad word, if that's what you're getting at.
#6
Posted 21 November 2006 - 10:28 PM
Someone who hasn't read the book just knows that Bond's love has died in his arms. And for him to suddenly have turned to stone and casually refer to her as 'the bitch'; it's a shock. It's the utter trivial way in which he says it that's shocking. It won't work for someone who knows it's coming, but someone who doesn't know it's there, it's not signposted at all and they'll think 'hang on; did he say 'the bitch is dead'? Crikey'.
#7
Posted 21 November 2006 - 10:31 PM
Thing is, we've read the book and know the line. We want a big fanfare when we see it on the screen.
Someone who hasn't read the book just knows that Bond's love has died in his arms. And for him to suddenly have turned to stone and casually refer to her as 'the bitch'; it's a shock. It's the utter trivial way in which he says it that's shocking. It won't work for someone who knows it's coming, but someone who doesn't know it's there, it's not signposted at all and they'll think 'hang on; did he say 'the bitch is dead'? Crikey'.
You know, I think the guy in the row behind me DID say "Crikey"!
#8
Posted 21 November 2006 - 10:44 PM
#9
Posted 21 November 2006 - 10:47 PM
I agree although they didn't give the line it's due!I may end up being in a minority here, but I really don't think it matters as I can't see the line retaining as much power on screen as it does in the book. Not exactly sure why, but it may be a reflection upon 21st century cinema - such a phrase doesn't quite have the same shock value.
#10
Posted 21 November 2006 - 10:59 PM
The only thing that aggravated me about it was the way they softened her betrayal by having M's bit of exposition after Bond says 'job done, bitch dead'. Should have just left it that she was a double agent. Or am I remembering the book incorrectly?
no, you're right. I think it would have made it all the more powerful.....
#11
Posted 21 November 2006 - 11:02 PM
Thing is, we've read the book and know the line. We want a big fanfare when we see it on the screen.
Someone who hasn't read the book just knows that Bond's love has died in his arms. And for him to suddenly have turned to stone and casually refer to her as 'the bitch'; it's a shock. It's the utter trivial way in which he says it that's shocking. It won't work for someone who knows it's coming, but someone who doesn't know it's there, it's not signposted at all and they'll think 'hang on; did he say 'the bitch is dead'? Crikey'.
Hadn't thought of it that way, but I think this is spot on. Craig deliberately underplayed it, and the casualness of it is what shocks. Very clever decision of his.
#12
Posted 21 November 2006 - 11:20 PM
They learned a lesson with OHMSS...no matter how low Bond gets beaten....he needs to come out on top in the end. The bitch is dead just wouldn't have been high enough for most people (myself included). I loved the ending and I loved Daniel's delivery of the line.
#13
Posted 22 November 2006 - 01:35 AM
#14
Posted 22 November 2006 - 01:53 AM
#15
Posted 22 November 2006 - 01:54 AM
#16
Posted 22 November 2006 - 02:13 AM
But it's obvious the power of the line is diminished by it not being the very last.
How you end a film determines how your audience interprets everything that has gone before it.
Take Gone with the Wind. "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn" is a powerful line wherever it's placed. But if the movie ends there we'd interpret the film differently. Scareltt would have ultimately lost. But it doesn't. Scarlett gets a coda where she tells herself that "tomorrow is another day" and that frames how we look back on the preceding god-knows how many hours of that film (well it was a long movie).
The whole reason the line "Bond... James Bond" is so powerful in Casino Royale is because it is the last line of the film. Placement is everything.
P.S. Yes, I know I shouldn't be wandering into the spoilers section, but I'm only looking at topics I consider 'safe'.
#17
Posted 22 November 2006 - 03:09 AM
Sure, it shows Bond being hard and cold and cruel.
But an interesting thing to remember is that Bond calls Vesper "the bitch" numerous times throughout the book - even when he's already falling for her.
Before he's even met her, he refers to her as "the bitch".
When he thinks she's been kidnapped he calls her "the silly bitch".
So when he delivers that final line I can always see him thinking, underneath the surface, "the stupid bitch - what was she doing getting tangled up in that mess and getting herself killed?"
For me, it's the true power of the line. It shows Bond as a bastard getting on with his life - his emotion changing from love to hate, but he's a scarred man and wishes more than anything in the world that he still had Vesper in his arms.
Cheers.
#18
Posted 22 November 2006 - 03:17 AM
#19
Posted 22 November 2006 - 03:29 AM
I don't remember M's reaction!
M's reaction is more upsetting to herself than at James. I don't know. Maybe it's me. She just looks like she's taken aback a little.
#20
Posted 22 November 2006 - 03:31 AM
#21
Posted 22 November 2006 - 03:33 AM
I don't remember M's reaction!
M's reaction is more upsetting to herself than at James. I don't know. Maybe it's me. She just looks like she's taken aback a little.
Indeed. I believe in the script there is something about M not being necessarily happy with herself that she has basically sacrificed Bond to become a spy or something along those lines.
It works well in the film.
#22
Posted 22 November 2006 - 05:15 PM
Or, maybe not.
#23
Posted 22 November 2006 - 05:23 PM
In the book her sucidue note explains her reasons. No note in the movie, so I guess, they had "M" take on the role of explaining to the audience.The only thing that aggravated me about it was the way they softened her betrayal by having M's bit of exposition after Bond says 'job done, bitch dead'. Should have just left it that she was a double agent. Or am I remembering the book incorrectly?
Didn;t really annoy me, but your right, it does soften Bond's reaction imo.
#24
Posted 22 November 2006 - 05:34 PM
Maybe if Craig dropped an F-Bomb ("Job done. The ing bitch is dead") it would have been more powerful.
Or, maybe not.
Honestly, I think not. Because if he'd said ing bitch it would have implied some kind of passionate hatred, and this needs to just be cold.
#25
Posted 22 November 2006 - 10:48 PM
Maybe if Craig dropped an F-Bomb ("Job done. The ing bitch is dead") it would have been more powerful.
Or, maybe not.
Honestly, I think not. Because if he'd said ing bitch it would have implied some kind of passionate hatred, and this needs to just be cold.
I think I would have had to laugh if he had gone the F-Bomb rout, much like the scene with the wedding singer in "Old School", if anybody recalls.
#26
Posted 23 November 2006 - 05:05 AM
Honestly, at first I would've liked to have had that be the last line. However, with Mr. White being involved with the movie, the line they chose to end the movie worked perfectly.
#27
Posted 23 November 2006 - 01:42 PM
Yeah I expected it to be in like a London phone booth actually...
I imagined exactelly the same thing when I read the book...
xxx
#28
Posted 23 November 2006 - 02:09 PM
#29
Posted 25 November 2006 - 02:51 PM
Did anybody else find that
#30
Posted 25 November 2006 - 06:47 PM