16 replies to this topic

[BlackFelix]

If anyone here reads comics imparticular DC comics then you may already be familiar with the post title and the implications. If aren't familar then let me give a short explanation.

When the D.C. (DETECTIVE COMICS) comic characters were being created in the the late 1930's - 1950's nobody that created the characters or worked for the publishg company would've had any idea that these characters and books would still be around 60-70 years later. As a small downfall there are alot of character inconsistency, for instance: Why does Clark Kent work for the Daily Planet but back in the 50's (real world time) Clark Kent worked for the Daily Star? Or how could the same Superman who captured and fought Nazi's and said it was okay to "slap a jap"(action comics #58) still be young and fighting internet criminals in 2005? Or better yet why does Batman of the 40's carry a a gun and takes joy in killing his foes, yet Batman of today would never carry a gun or kill anyone (on purpose)? Exactly, incosistency! So in the late 1960's the writers figured out a way in which the contradictions can make sense. They created 2 universes, Earth1 (curent) and, Earth2 (past!) It's basically an idea that now there can be one uniform explination for the characters.

All the events of Earth 2 took place in the 40's and 50's and all the events of Earth 1 took place within the last 12 years(of the current year.) In Earth 1 Superman and Batman just started fighting crime 12 years ago(though in our time it's been since the 1960s. So now there are two of everything, both living in parallel universes. There are 2 Batmans, 2 Superman's, 2 Lex Luthors, ect... Both universes knowing and accepting of the others existence. Until the 80's this idea worked fine. However there was still alot of confusion as to who belongeg to what universe and who's history started when. The writers and brains of D.C. came up with the idea of just destroying all the other universe's (Earth2) all together to cut confusion. What resulted was the lengthy comic story titled CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS, it's a story in which a the multiple Earths were threatend to be destroyed. After a long read all the Earths were destroyed except Earth 1, yet Earth 1 did not go unharmed. Instead of the other Earths being totally wiped out of existence forever, select parts of there existence were fused into the fabric of Earth 1. The characters involved are none the wiser of this happening as nothing for them changes. A great read for all those into comics!

Okay, how does this fit Bond? I'm finding myself questioning the validity of Bond's universe. How can this be the same James Bond that fought in WW2 and in the cold war that followed? The entire cold war! How can this be the same James Bond whose wife was killed in 1969(as marked by her gravestone?) Or even better, joind the Minstry of Defecne in 1941?!? It simply can't add up! I don't blame anyone for this goof, how could they know they would still be making these movies uninterupted 40 years later?

There are a few of explanations:

1) Simply ignore the huge timeline errors and continue on accepting the age-defying Jmaes Bond who may get younger in the next film? No!

2)"James Bond 007" is a code name and there have been at least 5 different men with that code name. But how can that be when each of them rember the others previous experiences?

3) There is only one Bond, yet there are two universe's in which he lives. The current Bond has only been with MI6 10 years and all the missions (The Living Daylights-Die Another Day) have taken place within that 10 years timeframe. And the Earth 2 has had a very similar life, almost identical life experiences yet James Bond Earth 2 is older and has been completed all his missions starting with Dr.No and ending with Never Say Never Again.

I think option 3 could work. These Bond's are for all intensive purposes are the same man. They look the same, dress the same and talk the same. They've both battled Dr. No , Blofeld, Max Zorin and Gutov Graves, just in two diffrent sequences of events. Earth 1 Bond's carrer started with around the time of 006's supposed death in the late 80's or early 90's. and Earth 2 bond started around the time of the Dr.No mission in early 60's. Of course there are subtle changes, like in Earth 2 006 died and never came back. Or in Earth 1 Bond met Blofeld for the 1st time in Piz Gloria.

I would build a neat timechart but this would be a good way of ironing out the Bond sequence of events. But this is the only to make sense of Bond's world. what do you think?

Edited by BlackFelix, 14 October 2005 - 05:34 AM.

[TheSaint]

As a fan of Earth-2, I like your option #3 but, since most fans wouldn't go for it, I'd stick with option #1.

[trumanlodge89]

i have actually been thinking about something similar to option three for some time now, but you did a much better job explaining it than i could ever hope to.


of course, it wouldnt be accepted very readily. oh well.

[Fixer]

Great thread title (and topic)!

I agree that it's getting harder and harder to view the film series as one overarching story. Up through Brosnan, you could kind of squint and imagine that all the events had occurred in one person's life, straddling the pre and post Soviet eras. But now we have the first Bond that's actually younger than the film series itself! It's very hard to imagine that 37 year old Bond in 2005 ever battled communism in the cold war. For me though, the first evidence of a natural break in the story occurred with Dalton. So lately I've been thinking of two (or perhaps now three?) eras of the Bond story.

The first era starts, of course , with Connery. This story runs nicely through Lazenby and into Moore. The fact that Moore was of equivalent age with Connery makes the aging of the character consistent. This Bond's story ends in 1985 in AVTAK. This is the classic Fleming/Broccoli cold war Bond.

The second era starts with Dalton and runs through Brosnan. The stylistic change in the series helps to differentiate this era from the previous one. This Bond may have fought Dr. No at Crab Key and married Tracy, but these events happened more recently than the original film releases. This is the Action Hero late cold war/post cold war Bond.

Now, I think we enter a new era for Bond. No longer will the character have any origin in the cold war. He can, and should encompass, the character's key traits, but the missions he is sent on should reflect the less monolithic and more turbulent world political environment. In addition, this I think could be a real opportunity to make a significant change in the style of the series. I'd love to see a focus on Bond's character. Though criticized by some, I think Fleming's portrayal in the novels was a much more dimensional look at the man than we've gotten in the films (with some exceptions). It will be interesting to see what approach EON takes. So ultimately, I've come to the point where I view the various takes on Bond (the novel eras, the film eras, and perhaps even the recent video games) as variations on a theme.

[doublenoughtspy]

I think the second era starts with Brosnan.

Dalton was the last actor to have a reference to his late wife - Brosnan's films never did.

[spynovelfan]

I think the second era starts with Brosnan.

Dalton was the last actor to have a reference to his late wife - Brosnan's films never did.

I thought there was something about his being married before in TWINE, or did I imagine that?

[Loomis]

I think the second era starts with Brosnan.

Dalton was the last actor to have a reference to his late wife - Brosnan's films never did.

I thought there was something about his being married before in TWINE, or did I imagine that?

There's some dialogue in the Brosnan era that the pasty are free to take as references to Tracy. For instance Bean's quip about Bond's dry martinis not silencing the screams of those he failed to protect, or however it goes.

If there's a second era, it starts with Dalton. Why? Because it marked the first time that the guy playing Bond was patently too young to be the same chap who went up against Dr. No in '62.

[Bizzare8]

If we take the infinite earths theory (by far the most facinating). Earth 2's Bond was Connery, his arc ignores OHMSS. Since the events in all the different Earths were essentially the same, we can assume that Connery did marry Tracy but it was never shown. Lazenby can be Earth 3 (In the D.C. universe there were hundreds of Earths pre-crisis so we can keep doing this). Earth X's Bond was Moore (he also married a Tracy, hence the opening of FYEO). Dalton can be Earth 4 and Brosnan was on Earth Prime, (not a reference to his performance it just happened to be one of the Earths of DC) Craig is current so that makes him Earth 1.

I think this works, if you say that Earth 2,3,and X all had similar looking Moneypenny's. and the same for Q and M.

The only thing it doesnt account for is the multiple Blofeld's and Felix's. Lazenby's Blofeld (Earth 3, for those who lost track) wasnt at all like Connery's (Earth 2) But if they're on different Earths that doesnt matter. In DAF Blofeld recived plastic surgery so his appearace is accounted for, and we'll chalk his erratic behavior up to growing insanity (think of the novel YOLT).

The multiple felixes is another problem. Brosnan and Lazenby didnt have any Leiter's (u can say that he never existed in Earth 3 or Earth Prime) Roger only had one, which is odd for so many movies). We run into problems with Dalton and Connery. Connery had 4 different Felix's. I might have to stretch a bit here. The Felix from DN and TB look quite alike, cept ones older. Since TB came years after TB this can work, and they can be considered the same Felix. (If anyone can explain the other two felix's then u'll have to because im at a loss.)

Dalton had two and looked like Earth X's(Moore's Earth). The Felix from Earth 4 worked for the DEA, was married and then was widowed and half eaten by a shark. These events only occured on Earth 4, (as far as we know). Prior to this Earth 4's Felix used (stick with me on this) the CIA's portal device, in a test run to visit Earth X, where he met another James Bond and formed a friendship (LALD). He also met his counterpart, who incedently had no relationship with James Bond at the time. Felix eventually made his way back home, using a makeshift portal, however due to the instability of the portal device he also brought back Earth X's Felix. The original Felix continued his work for the DEA until his shark attack. Earth X's Felix, who starred in TLD, began working for his own detective firm (since in TLD the CIA isnt mentioned i dont think) under a differnt name fooling everyone but the other Felix and Bond himself. Earth 4's Bond (Dalton) knew both Felix's but thought it better not to ask questions. But thats for another movie. Perhaps a Felix Leiter spin off.

OK i think that covers most of the continuity errors. .....Oh dear, i didnt mean to talk that long.

[doublenoughtspy]

Plastic surgery and/or the face changing machine from DAD can explain everything

[Fixer]

If we take the infinite earths theory (snip) .....Oh dear, i didnt mean to talk that long.

Ok then, explain why Andrea Anders looks like Octopussy.

[doublenoughtspy]

I take it you mean the other way around.

The leader of the criminal gang Octopussy, used the face changing machine to look like the lover of fellow Circus perfomer "Pistols" Scaramanga.

What better face to use than that of a dead woman?

[Alex Zamudio]

It is the same guy, who keeps souvenirs of old missions (Lazenby's office scene OHMSS) whose late wife is Tracy (OHMSS, mentioned by XXX in TSWLM, Bond visits her grave in FYEO, his marriage mentioned in LTK) whose parents get killed in a ski accident... (Mentioned in Goldeneye).

Who's been friends with Moneypenny, worked with 2 M's (Brosnan's Bond mentions a predecessor to Dench's M) who annoys Q (Q mentions his long working relationship with Bond in LTK and in his farewell in TWINE).

So it is the same guy whose missions are adapted or visualized in the current time by Hollywood magic...

Regards.

Edited by Alex Zamudio, 19 October 2005 - 01:19 AM.

[terminus]

And what about Joe Don Baker appearing as different roles - and the Henderson/Blofield similarity ?

[Bizzare8]

There are perhaps too many mysteries to be solved with one therory, unless it was of course..dare i say..the ULTIMATE THEORY

Of course i dont have it

Oh but i can explain the Joe Don Baker thing, On Earth 4, his name was Jack Wade but he adobted Brad Whittiker (spelled way off) as an alter ego to sell arms. On Earth Prime he kept his old name and joined the CIA. A stretch sure, but hey least they're both American.

[terminus]

Nice ideas - now does NSNA take place on Earth Y ?

[Double-Oh Agent]

I'm with you Alex Zamudio. James Bond is one man played by five different actors whose exploits are updated to the present day by Hollywood.

I don't understand why people consider that there could be multiple James Bonds. This is fiction so a bit of suspension of disbelief is required. Do we really believe that Bond could have avoided so many bullets and dangers over the years in real life? Or had so many gadgets in his cars or not gotten any women pregnant or contracted a venereal disease? We just accept it because that makes the films more fun. It's just like in the Spider-Man comic books where it took Peter Parker like 15 real-time years to finish college instead of four or five. So I don't see why it's all that hard to believe that Bond is really just one man with Hollywood tweakings.

[BlackFelix]

Bizzare8- I really enjoyed your post! I've had some similar looks on Felix arcs. Meaning, I think Felix Lieter or 006 may be the epicenter of all the earths just like Flash is for D.C's crisis.

More direct, though I really like the Earth 1, earth 2, Earth 3, Prime, ect., ect. But I envisioned two Earths for simplicity sake. Connery and Moore are Earth 2 "BOND". Dalton and Brosnan are Earth 1 "Bond". They may all look different, but Superman is drawn differently now than he was 10 yrs ago and it's still the same universe.

Okay here goes:

Earth 2 Bond: 1962-1985 (Dr. No - Never Say Never Again)

*First mission was around the Dr. No mission in 1962.

*Married Tracy in 1969

*Battled Gustav Graves, and Elliot Carver(Carver news orgnization), and other Earth 1 Villians Throughout the 70's and early 80's

*After the Octopussy mission the new M takes over and retires the Double 0's in Early 1984

*1985 Bond is nearing retirement and is sent on one last mission to recover stolen missles, after the succsess of the mission Bond retires.

Earth 1 Bond 1987-2005

*Bond first mission is in early 1987 where 006 is killed. Later that year several Doubke 0's are killed in a training mission in Gibralter.

*1988 Bond is sent on a year long mission and destroys the SPECTRE organization starting with Dr.No. Bond later marries Tracy, though she is killed by the last remaining SPECTRE assasin. Bond later kills this assailiant with a Helicopter.

*Throughout the late 80's and early 90's Bond battles many villians from Earth 2, including Drax, Stromberg, and Zorin.

*1994 DEA agent Felix Lieter and his wife are attacked on thier wedding night. Felix is left with only one leg. Bond resigns from the Secret Service in the Spring. M also retires this year.

*1995 Bond rejoins with the the SS and is evaluated by the new M. He is sent on mission where he discovers 006 is still alive

*2001 Bond is captured by General Moon and help captive for 14 months.

*2002 Bond is released from prison in a prisoner exchnage program. He later initiates his own investigation of Gustav Graves and the ickirus satelite program.

or something like that...