30 replies to this topic

[kevrichardson]

I wonder why the 007 Theme that first appered in "From Russia With Love" has always been under used .It appears only in a few Bonds that were composed by John Barry . "FRWL" , "Thunderball" , You Only Live Twice". Here it's mixed with the James Bond Theme during the Little Nellie scene. Diamonds Are Forvever , and Moonraker marks it final appears . Any one know the reason why.

[level007]

i don't know, but i would to know why, and the solution is to ask john barry.
And i would LOVE to hear it in a futur bond. So please, Mr Arnold, Make your own version of the 007 them for Bond 21. ANd why don't you do it with the Propellerheads ?

[Doubleshot]

I never found Barry's 007 theme particularly interesting outside of its use in "From Russia With Love" and "Thunderball". I think thematically, it's not appropriate for the current Bond films.

[[dark]]

Well said, Doubleshot.

That said, I'd love to hear what Arnold could do with it.

[gkgyver]

I second Doubleshot's opinion.
For me, the 007 theme is very annoying and should never be preferred to the original theme by Monty Norman.

[Daltonitus]

Yer, it's not 'all that' when it comes down to it. When it was used in the films was good, but I don't think it was underused at all.

[Tanger]

Too 'Western Like' IMO. Like something out of Magnificent 7 or something. Though having said that it would be interesting if Arnold provided a modern take on the tune.

Also the intro appeared in DAD. It can be found on the soundtrack in 'Antanov' at around the seven and a half minute mark I think.

[gkgyver]

Yes, it's the whisper of a touch, but it's there

i don't know if Arnold could really make it sound better. I think a theme is a theme and if it's not good (I refuse to use the word "bad" in combination with John Barry) it stays no-good.

[kevrichardson]

Originally posted by gkgyver
I second Doubleshot's opinion.
For me, the 007 theme is very annoying and should never be preferred to the original theme by Monty Norman.

I was not looking to replace the Original James Bond Theme with The 007 Theme . Even through in some quarter both are believed to have been written by John Barry.

[General Koskov]

I love that theme. So beutifuly used in all five films, it would be perfect if they ever have a huge battle scene again.

[Blox]

It is remarkable that 40 years after it was written, "007" stands up as well as it does.

[Donovan]

I prefer the version used in "From Russia With Love" mainly because of the timpani. This heavy use of percussion makes the track sound very driving and forceful. By the time it was used in "Moonraker", it was a bit too strings/orchestral.

It seemed to me that Barry was tempted to use it in "Octopussy" in scenes involving the circus train.

[kevrichardson]

Here is a interesting thought . Did Barry write the 007 Theme to offset the confusion of who wrote the James Bond Theme . Which was become popular at the time .

[Blox]

My impression is that Barry wrote "007" to signify "mission-in-progress" moments in the films. Whereas we hear Norman's signature tune during moments that announce Bond's presence, such as strolling through an airport, a hotel lobby, etc., 007 is heard when action involving Bond breaks out.

[General Koskov]

After hearing what havoc Arnold can create with the James Bond Theme, I'm not sure if I want to hear him do the 007 Theme, but I like the piece so much that I'm over-optimistic and believe it'll be a wonderful work of art, like TND's score.

[White Tuxedo]

I had an idea of it being playing very slowly and luxuriously so that you couldn't tell it was the 007 theme at first. Possibly at a banquet or casino or something. Don't over play it, just a tad little hint for a very short time. Then never again. I agree, it sounds westerny a bit, and is outdated. But I'd love for it to say 'peek-a-boo' one last time.

Think of the casino track in TWINE.

[Tanger]

The slow version in Moonraker is a bit camp. Mind you the whole films camp.

[Rich Douglas]

I like the 007 theme, but certainly do not prefer it to the James Bond Theme. If nothing else, I would love to see it over the end credits of bond 21, or even as a bonus track on the disc. I'm with mostly everyone else here, it simply just would not fit in "todays" series, the orchestra progression just would not work. BUT, Arnold would definately do a great job remixing it with or without the propellorheads.

Rich

[Dunph]

I think the Props are leaving their techno roots behind somewhat (though not altogether), and they're moving into jazz and blues for their (finally) forthcoming album.

The 007 theme does sound a tad outdated, though it's widely known as the "second Bond theme," and by now, deserves a proper remix. It wouldn't work in today's Bond in it's original form, in my view because of it's time signature, it's a little too waltzy, and as some have said, sounds like it's come off the back of a western. Perhaps, with a slight time signature adjustment, and with the appropriate use of electronics (as heard in the Props' On Her Majesty's Secret Service, or Paul Oakenfold's "Bond Versus Oakenfold"), this track could be brought nicely into the 21st Century.

It's just a shame it wasn't employed anywhere in the Die Another Day soundtrack, as there's nothing better than an anniversary to wheel out the old songs.

Maybe 2007 is the year of the 007 theme? We have yet to see

[Blox]

I think its safe after 40 yrs for the composer of # 21 to introduce a freshly composed theme.

[flares]

I can't quite put my finger on what sequence to which you refer - I have a few CDs at work with me - does it appear in any of the following?;

TLD
OP
GF
OHMSS
MR
Shaken & Stirred
The James Bond Collection (4 CD box)

[Dunph]

Surely though, Blox, to create ANOTHER Bond theme would just confuse the hell out of the music fans as well as the casual listener? Bond already has two themes dedicated to him, as well as On Her Majesty’s Secret Service, which could also be classed as another theme, as it is both instrumental and a cult piece among fans.

Arnold does a wonderful job pushing the limits of Bond music, and before he became the offical Bond composer he had already produced a hit album. I'm sure, should he want to, he would compose an original theme that would be instantly affiliated with his "reign."

However, like I said above, he has written some superb pieces of Bond music so far, both original and covered.

originally posted by flares:
I can't quite put my finger on what sequence to which you refer

It first appeared in From Russia With Love. It is known as The 007 Theme, or simply "007."
It subsequently cropped up in Diamonds Are Forever, You Only Live Twice and Moonraker. It may be in the Moonraker soundtrack under "Bond Arrives in Rio and Boat Chase", I don't have it at hand, so I couldn't tell you for sure. Hope this helped, flares.

[Blox]

I don't think today's moviegoers would be confused by a new theme -- especially if what they hear _sounds_ like a theme for the James Bond character. They've adjusted to new actors and styles. New music shouldn't be asking too much imo...

[[dark]]

I have to argue that his Tomorrow Never Dies riff is amazing. Very Bond-esque. It popped up in quite a few tracks on the Tomorrow Never Dies soundtrack.

I don't know that creating a permanant recurring theme for Arnold is really a good idea. I'd much rather he hints at past scores as he has been doing. Arnold's rolling piano which featured in The World is not Enough and then Die Another Day is a perfect example. Same riff, but completely different uses [though I find his rehashed love theme from The World is not Enough for Die Another Day to be too much "borrowing"].

Who knows though, if Arnold uses I Will Return, as he plans to, for Bond 21, this may turn into his recurring theme. And a damn fine one it is too.

[Blox]

The TND main theme was written by Sheryl Crow and Mitchell Froom.

B l o x

[[dark]]

I should've been more specific.

When I said "Tomorrow Never Dies riff", I meant the instrumental of Surrender which had been woven into the score.

I'm content for a composer to use the James Bond theme as well as the instrumental of the main title song for the score, as far as themes go.

[flares]

I am with you now Dunphboy007 - you are right - it is on MR soundtrack.

Thanks very much

Flares

[Blox]

Dark wrote: When I said "Tomorrow Never Dies riff", I meant the instrumental of Surrender which had been woven into the score. I'm content for a composer to use the James Bond theme as well as the instrumental of the main title song for the score, as far as themes go.
---------

Sounds good Dark...

[Dunph]

originally posted by Blox:
...Let's clarify things, shall we? The James Bond Theme is the only music written as a signature theme for the character still heard in new pictures. Barry's 007 hasn't echoed in theaters in over 24 yrs.

Blox, I'm well aware of this fact, however, the casual listener to Bond soundtracks will simply get confused should a new thematic reference to Bond be composed every time a new composer comes on to the scene.
I'm sure Barry felt the need to compose 007, thought of by many fans, myself included as:

"The second Bond Theme"    
Patrick Macnee, A View To A Kill DVD

If Arnold wishes to compose another theme, then I'm not adverse to him doing so, but your suggestion that composers jump on the bandwagon to compose their own themes to Bond is confused. Are you saying that each composer should compose a signature tune? If that's the case, then surely, in time, the Bond Sound would be clogged with "pretenders to the throne" regarding musical references.

originally posted by Blox:
As for Surrender, etc -- I have no memory of this cue -- and not because I don't want to. I am weary of scores that attempt to pay homage to Barry's "sound" -- without accomplishing what Barry did musically when it comes to composing thematic cues.

I'm confused as to what you're asking now, Blox. Do you want Arnold to successfully emulate Barry's sound? Are you a bit of a Barry purist? You seem to want to accept nothing but, and you seem to want to dismiss everything else. But even though you're more than welcome to your opinion, you have to admit Tomorrow Never Dies is a superb score.

originally posted by Blox:
OHMSS was written as a main theme to one movie -- not as a signature theme for the character, and this hasn't been heard in theaters in 34 years.

You miss my point, Blox. It is the only instrumental theme (it did have lyrics at one point, but these were later scrapped) in the series bar the James Bond Theme itself used for Dr. No, although it was used specifically for one film, I do believe I'm right in saying that modern day audiences, and most fans alike, do see it as another thematic reference to Bond. A "third Bond theme" if you like, though I'm well aware it is only tied with that film. I wouldn't mind it being used in another film.

[b]originally posted by Blox:
21st century moviegoers won't be confused by a new theme -- especially if what they hear _sounds_ like a theme for the James Bond character. Its up to the skill of the composer to define what that music should be.

Again, In my view, Two (potentially three) themes for one character is enough. One theme per film, and the occasional reference to past Bond music/themes is fine. Though more Bond themes, I believe would just cloud the water, and potentialy dilute the impact of the themes that already exist.

[Blox]

Dunph,

Imo Bond needs redefinition in many ways -- including how he is represented musically.

Blox