28 replies to this topic

[goldengun]

In the file LALD, Roger is given the Tarot card "Queen Of Cups" in an "upside-down position". Does anyone know who gave Bond this card in the film?

There's a few red herrings in this film...

[Turn]

I've always been led to believe it was Solitaire because I always wondered the same thing myself. At least this is what I've gathered from various sources I've read.

[DLibrasnow]

It was sent by Solitaire.
The problem with the tarot cards in LALD is that they do not represent what they are depicted as representing.
I have a friend who dabbled in tarot and all throughout the movie she was objecting to the movie on the grounds that Solitaire was misinterpreting the cards. One glaring example is the "Lovers" card which has nothing to do with romance, sex or two people becoming lovers.

[Peter]

My guess was going to be Quarrel Jr, because he would know about the local goings on, but I can't imagine why he would warn Bond in that way.

As for Solitaire, she barely knows him at this point in the movie, so why would she warn him?

I think it's just a plot hole to increase the mystical voodoo aura of the film, and the writers probably don't even know who sent it.

[DLibrasnow]

Originally posted by Peter

As for Solitaire, she barely knows him at this point in the movie, so why would she warn him?

Barely know him...I beg to differ

[goldengun]

I have always thought it was Quarrel Jr. as well. The man lived there, secretly gave the card to Bond and then that's what tips Bond off when they head to the "spot where Baines was killed". By the time they get to Quarrel's boat - Moore has a pretty good idea about "Mrs. Bond".

I dont understand why Solitaire would do it, at that point she thinks that Bond is only a "Fool".

But Moore turned Solitaire into the fool didn't he?

ALso - I know many ppl speak about MoneyPenny ahd how she looked in the films. But in LALD doesn't she look really good?? I am glad we got to see more of her in AVTAK at the horserace.

[DLibrasnow]

I think Solitaire sent it to Bond as a warning. If Quarrel Jr. knew he would just have told Bond. Rosie is at this point a trusted member of the CIA.

[Peter]

DLibrasnow:

How do you mean Solitaire knows Bond when he receives the card?

They had met for 5 minutes at Mr. Big's hideout and had one conversation about the cards. Solitaire has powers and may sense things about Bond, but I wouldn't say she knows him. We, the audience, have a larger sense of who Solitaire is, but their first conversation of depth is actually at her villa, which is after the Rosie sequence.

If Solitaire had sent the card, that would have been a pretty bold move for her to make before Bond seduced her. It seems she was still loyal to Kananga (and therefore Rosie) at this point, despite her restlessness. I would expect some dialogue between Bond and Solitaire to strengthen this point, (although it could have been cut).

I still think it's Quarrel Jr, although I don't know why he did it that way. Like people said before, it's a plot hole never explained in the script (at least the finished version)

[Clarence Leiter]

Would Quarrel know about tarot? Would he even know about the implications of an upsidedown tarot card? The subject is not exactly a widely practiced vocation.

And I agree that it could not be Solitaire who bearly knows Bond at all.

Bad scripting and/or editing I think.

[Jriv71]

I agree with Clarence. Bad scripting. They just had nowhere to go with it. Box Office receipts were down for OHMSS, DAF was terrible, and this script was just about as bad. It's an absolute MIRACLE after those 3 films that we still have Bond today. They should've just done the book.
By the way, was there ever a worse character in a Bond movie than Rosie Carver. You know who's the second worst character ever...I'm not making this up....Elliot Carver. Coincidence????? If there's a character in Bond 21 or Bond 22 named Carver, run screaming from the theater.

[Jriv71]

Actually J.W. Pepper is right in the mix.
Can't we just call him J.W. Carver?

[goldengun]

Rosie Carver is not easy on the eyes, but the acting was alright. Also, she doesn't last long in the movie - she's killed early on.

The worst character in a Bond movie is Pam Bouvier played by Carey Lowell from LTK. That was the worst character ever - ugly/boring/dry and unmemorable. And her character never died in the movie!!!!

[Mr. Kidd]

Here's another theory. Perhaps NO ONE sent Bond the card! Perhaps
Bond comes to the realization(offscreen) that Rosie is, at the very least,
not being truthful with him and seeing her frightened reaction to the
voodoo symbols left at the hotel, decided to break her down and force
her to be truthful with him by claiming someone mysteriously sent him
the card exposing her as a liar. Using the card as an interrigation tool
and psychologically backing her into a corner! Hey, it's as plausible as
any other theory!!!

[Jriv71]

Hey, East Patchogue...
Massapequa. Cold, isn't it.

[Jriv71]

Originally posted by goldengun
Rosie Carver is not easy on the eyes, but the acting was alright.  Also, she doesn't last long in the movie - she's killed early on.

The worst character in  a Bond movie is Pam Bouvier played by Carey Lowell from LTK.  That was the worst character ever - ugly/boring/dry and unmemorable.  And her character never died in the movie!!!!

I must respectfully disagree. The reason I call Rosie Carver the worst character ever is BECAUSE of the acting. Just brutal. If anything she was OK to look at (strong body), but the acting was awful. "Me-clothes off-where???" Numerous bad screams...ugghh.
Certainly worse than Pam Bouvier.

[goldengun]

Yeah I can see where Rosie is unmemorable - but then I guess she's supposed to be some sort of naive, "innocent" agent. At least she's out of the way quickly.

I remember Pam Bouvier in LTK, the scenes with BOnd and her are so comical. Especially how funny Dalton's face looks when he's talking to her. It's as if Dalton is talking to someone dressed head-to-toe in a green garbage bag or simply at a wall, he's got this thousand yard stare as though he'd just swallowed a live cockroach.

Talisa Soto was great to look at. Even the famous Della had a better role than Pam Bouvier.

[Jriv71]

Mmmmmmm. Talisa Soto. Too bad about the curse of Bond. Otherwise she'd be in quality movies for us to watch her in.

[Mr. Kidd]

Originally posted by Jriv71
Hey, East Patchogue...
Massapequa.  Cold, isn't it.

Sure is! Even San Monique looks good lately!:cool:

[brendan007]

Originally posted by goldengun

The worst character in  a Bond movie is Pam Bouvier played by Carey Lowell from LTK.  That was the worst character ever - ugly/boring/dry and unmemorable.  And her character never died in the movie!!!!

imo Pam Bouvier is the best thing in LTK, and a great Bond girl as well. she is the only bond girl that i can remember that is not rescued by bond, and she even saves his life more than once. i completely disagree with that statement.

[DLibrasnow]

I believe that Solitaire sent Bond the card because she is quite honestly a responsible character and honorable and she sent Bond the card as a warning that there was someone deceitful in his life. For this to be the case she doesn't have to feel anything personally for 007.
There was that moment in the earlier sequence where Bond turned over the "Lovers" card (yeah I know, in actual tarot is doesn't mean what Bond infers it means) and perhaps Solitaire foresaw that he could free her of Kananga's grasp.
If Quarrel Jr. was suspicious of Rosie, why didn't he simply just tell Bond??? If there was any reason to be suspicious of the charcater why would Felix assign her to keep an eye on 007. The Quarrel theory just doesn't seem to hold water and I have always believed we are meant to think it is Solitaire.
By the way, I think Rosie Carver is extremely easy on the eyes, a lot more attractive than a young Jane Seymour (although the latter got more attractive as she got older).

[General Koskov]

The problem with Solitaire's motive (although now I believe this theory since I had never even thought of who sent the card before) is the problem with the entire film:

It seems to me that they took the book, but cut it up and duplicated scenes until it made no sense and all the 'talking scenes' were a filler for the action, which wasn't very good anyway.

If, as in the book, the NYC meeting with Mr Big had been longer (as long as the N'Orleans interrogation), then Solitaire's attraction to Bond would be explained. But, as it is, we have Tarot-reading Voodooers, SIS agents as UN delegates, a general assembly that can't tell when a man dies, and a police force which cannot protect their president.

[DLibrasnow]

I always assumed it was Solitaire because that fitted in better with the Fleming book.

[Peter]

I have to take a moment to defend Rosie Carver. Although the character is not bright, she is certainly not stupid in the way Tiffany Case and Mary Goodnight are. I think she's attractive, has a nice body, and is charming, above all.

When you're forced to play a character who is literally terrified of voodooist trappings, you're going to come off as stupid to those of us who don't really believe in the mysticism. I think we find her more ridiculous than if we believed in voodoo.

Incidently, Clarence Leiter brings up another good point: how would Quarrel Jr know about tarot (if he had sent the card). That's another problem with this movie, which is: why is every single black person in the film (except Strutter and Quarrel) involved in voodoo and afraid of Mr. Big? Not that Bond films are documentary, but it's a bit much.

[Turn]

Originally posted by Peter
When you're forced to play a character who is literally terrified of voodooist trappings, you're going to come off as stupid to those of us who don't really believe in the mysticism.  I think we find her more ridiculous than if we believed in voodoo.

This begs the question of why was she involved at all with Kananga if she was terrified of voodoo? Shouldn't he have gotten somebody who wasn't going to freak out and jeopardize his ends?

[Peter]

Kananga fostered the belief and fear of voodoo to get people to do what he wanted. Rosie betrayed the CIA (and Bond) because of Kananga.

He had convinced her to set up Baines (the guy from the pre-titles), and later Bond, by constantly enforcing the fear of death, such as the hat in the hotel bungalow, and later the scarecrows. These provided visible signs that if she didn't follow his instructions, she would meet a voodoo curse.

Rosie freaked out because Bond was pointing a gun at her, forcing her to confess, she saw the scarecrow, and thought voodoo death was worse. She never actually gave up Kananga.

[bonddur]

I;'ve always wondered who sent the voodoo card to Bond - can't be SOlitaire cause she dont haven;t met Bond yet....

I figure that the hotel staff sent a complimentary card to Bond, and this is what tips bond to Rosie...

Yet another time where Bond flukes out....flukey guy! :eek:

Also - I agree, Pam Bouvier was a boring Bond girl, while Talisa Soto was a hot babe in line with XXX:)

[DLibrasnow]

Originally posted by bonddur
I;'ve always wondered who sent the voodoo card to Bond - can't be SOlitaire cause she dont haven;t met Bond yet....

I figure that the hotel staff sent a complimentary card to Bond, and this is what tips bond to Rosie...

Yet another time where Bond flukes out....flukey guy! :eek:

Also - I agree, Pam Bouvier was a boring Bond girl, while Talisa Soto was a hot babe in line with XXX:)

Didn't Bond meet Solitaire in New York??? She was keeping tabs on him at the start of the movie....Makes sense that she would warn him if there was someone deceitful around...

[Blofeld's Cat]

Originally posted by DLibrasnow


Didn't Bond meet Solitaire in New York??? She was keeping tabs on him at the start of the movie....Makes sense that she would warn him if there was someone deceitful around...

....especially since the cards revealled that they would become lovers at some point.

Yes, I agree with your notion there, DL.

[DLibrasnow]

Originally posted by Blofeld's Cat

....especially since the cards revealled that they would become lovers at some point.

Yes, I agree with your notion there, DL.

It always seemed kinda common sense to me