94 replies to this topic

[5 BONDS]

The Living Daylights is a damn good Bond movie compared to the **** churned out in 2002 known as Die Another Day.

Brosnans performance as Bond in DAD is easily overshadowed by Dalton's fine performance in TLD.

I think the producers have forgotten what Bond should be and Dalton in my mind set the benchmark for what the producers and directors are trying to churn out now but now I am afraid in the wrong direction.


Goldeneye is a great beginning for a franchise almost dead and buried.
Tomorrow Never Dies is a fast moving action BOND film.
The World is Not is Enough tries which is not too bad and is a much better film then DAD.
DAD lost it half way and went into action overdrive and then Mr BOND disappeared and was replaced by Mr CGI BOND.

What a rushed production and awful ending to a film which deserved better.

[Blue Eyes]

I'd sit down and watch DAD anyday before I'd watch TLD.

[General Orlov]

Originally posted by Blue Eyes
I'd sit down and watch DAD anyday before I'd watch TLD.

Yes, maybe I would, too, for three or four times. But then again, I've seen this wonderful film TLD so often already, and DAD still is kinda new to me. I guess, I when I've seen DAD for the 15th or 20th time, I'd go back to TLD - which I consider to be the best.

[Spectre001]

I don't know that I would call TLD a classic let alone think it would be remembered by the masses over DAD. In all fairness though that is a first impression and time will tell.

[11 11]

TLD is better I agree.

[General Koskov]

Well, considering the opening shot, and the entire end-action-sequence, DAD is just a rip-off of TLD.

But for the record, TLD is better.

[B5Erik2]

Gotta go with TLD on this one.

DAD wasn't horrible, but it had too much DAF in it to really be a classic. The first 75 minutes, as I've stated so many times, was awesome. The last 45-50 minutes came across like a bad Bond spoof.

The ending is what counts. A bad ending KILLS a great film.

TLD has a great ending, DAD has a horrible ending, so give me TLD.

[flares]

TLD is fantastic. It is a much more complete film than DAD, plus its actually plausible. And what a great soundtrack.

[Byron]

TLD is for me the best of all the Bond films.

As Brosnan missed out on being in TLD, he succeded in making this much inferior version which is as someone mentioned above is a blatant rip off.

Brozzie no matter how much you try, you will never be better than Mr Dalton.

As for the soundtrack, i urge all TLD fans to get the Ryco special edition
CD. Pure gold.

[DLibrasnow]

Daniel, I am surprised by you. The Living Daylights had a strong, well constructed plot. Although it is a little slow in parts, I think is vastly superior to the other Dalton flick LTK.

A friend of mine (who was not a Bond fan) said that he would watch three movies of my choosing and then render an opinion on 007. Of the three, she liked TLD the best.

[Carver]

I gotta say it, TLD is WAY better than DAD. TLD is a real classic Bond film, just amazing, everything about it is Bond, while DAD is still good, a good Bond film, but I'd watch TLD over DAD anyday.

[brendan007]

why are these two films being compared anyway. they are different types of bond films, like comparing FRWL to moonraker.

[DLibrasnow]

Because they are the two films starring Tim Dalton

[DanMan]

It sort of sickens me how you people just love to bash DAD and Pierce Brosnan whenever the oppurtunity arises. It's really annoying. I don't like FRWL but I don't insult it all the time. But once again, it's freedom of speech, so say what you want.

[Martini]

I agree with you, DanMan. I guess no-one here is a clairvoyant, so who dares to say what DAD will be remembered? TLD is one of my favorite films, a classic Bond. But DAD is in my opinion a very well constructed time travel through the 50 years history of Bond (and I know how difficult it is to create a subtext before the text). Maybe, people will never detect the ingenious subtext of DAD, but that fact doesn

[JackChase007]

I used to say TLD is the best Bond, and my favorite, but now I strongly disagree. For best, I'd say FRWL. Favorite? DAD by a long shot. DAD is just so much more of an entertaining movie, and actually, the more I watch TLD lately, the less I ever want to see it again. I notice things about TLD that make me realize "This is a pretty cheesy movie, actually". I enjoy the cast so much more in DAD, and as good as Dalton is, he could NEVER out-shadow Brosnan.

[Byron]

So parts of TLD were cheesy eh? Hmmm lets see which parts of DAD were cheesy :

Totally cheesy and pointless car chase.

Absolutely dreadful iceberg, parasailing sequence.

Cheesy airplane thru the light beam sequence.

Cheesy acting by Brosnan, Berry and the guy that played Graves. Was Graves some kind of Richard Branson clone?

As for Brosnan he is a lightweight actor, that should have stayed in midday cheesy television series.

[Trueman Lodge]

DAD was a slightly confusing film. The first part of the film was really good. The action looked real but the second half was too over the top. All the way through TLD and LTK it always looks like Timothy Dalton is doing the stunts (I know he is not, but TLD is not filled with CGI) whereas in DAD it looks the exact opposite. Also the Plane seen at the end of TLD is far superior to the one in DAD.

I like to see Bond actulally do the action scenes rather than being put there by some one with a computer.

[SeanValen00V]

Brosnan who I like as Bond like the others as well, has shown what a great job firstly Dalton did before him, and the filmakers behind The Living Daylights, delivered a a hugely entertaining film, thats a excellent Bond film, a excellent film on its own right, and a movie that lasts.

Now I liked Die Another Day, but there are 20 films, and the new Bond film always gets attention, but Dalton's work of The Living Daylights and Licence to Kill, which you see kinda elements of in DAD, won't be class enough to hang on for a long time, I suspect Bond 21 all around will be better, and DAD will be a decent Bond film, for those first 75 mins everyone talks about.

Brosnan is popular,
Bond is popular
A new Bond film is popular
but quality gets seen and becomes clearer over time and opinions change over time, and jesus LTD gets fans every year when I look and read around.

I enjoyed DAD alot, but The Living Daylights the first Bond movie I saw and only film I've seen 3 times at the cinema, it has everything, great story, good bondian feel, good spy stuff, great music, and Daltons performance looking newer each time.


Brosnan is still got 1 or 2 films left, and alot of us know DAD can be improved on, I like his Bond, but he deserves better, and I know the producers can do better, everyone can because the film after 75 mins could of been written by college student in class. Good story telling, even if its fun like DAD is needed, so we don't get bored of the action and the characters within action, the third act of DAD spoiled it to some, but I like all Bonds, but thats just the difference between a good film then one of the best LTD.

[DLibrasnow]

It's amazing how many Bond fans were not fans until Brosnan got the nod, and only remember seeing Brosnan 007 movies on the big screen. For those of us who were fans in the 1980s, I think we have a bit more focused perspective because we have seen how opinion changes over time.
I suspect that if the internet had been around in the early 1980s there would be a number of people saying Roger Moore is the best Bond ever - actually I remember people saying that.
Brosnan is the flavor of the moment, but Cubby Broccoli always maintained that the Bond character was greater than any actor. That was at a time when Sean Connery was the ONLY image of Bond people had (and Connery wanted to be a partner in EON), and having another actor in the role was an untested idea.
Broccoli was proven right when Roger Moore came on in 1973 (seven years after he had made that prediction).
The true test of how good a Bond Brosnan is will come after he has left the role and he is no longer the flavor of the month. Then the newbie 007 fans will be veterans and 007 fans during the reign of another actor in the role.

[iceberg]

First off, let me issue a pre-emptive statement to stave off any die-hard (no pun intended) pro-DADer already beginning to froth at the mouth: I enjoyed DAD very much...

... I just enjoyed (and continue to) The Living Daylights more. We won't go into the reasons because it would be largely futile. People are going to think whatever they want to think. Change is good, but you can't change people's opinions. Not that easily anyway.

But let me say this:

Just as LTK was underappreciated when it first came out, but then started to gain a following as time wore on, I think DAD will travel down a similar path. And don't be so sure that Bond 21 will be an improvement over DAD, folks. Remember, by foisting that second hour of DAD on us, it's clear that the Broccolis are courting the PlayStation and X-Box crowds. ANd since DAD is an obvious commercial success, who's to say they're going to stop now, especially with XXX2: THE TATTOO ARTIST WHO LOVED ME and MISSION IMPOSSIBLE 3: ETHAN HUNT'S NEW HAIRDO in the wings.

Flaws and all, at least DAD had a lot going for it (like that great first hour). Who knows, Bond 21 could be worse: a 120 minute-long CGI extravaganza with sequences that would make the ice-cliff parasailing scene in DAD look like a classic.

Shudder...:eek:

[SeanValen00V]

Originally posted by iceberg


Flaws and all, at least DAD had a lot going for it (like that great first hour).  Who knows, Bond 21 could be worse: a 120 minute-long CGI extravaganza with sequences that would make the ice-cliff parasailing scene in DAD look like a classic.

Shudder...:eek:

Hey your doing a good job of scaring me about Bond 21, I'm a optimist, I'm confident the producers can improve over DAD, there was criticism, among good words, they've listened in the past.

[DLibrasnow]

The Bond movies are all about making dollars...you think they seriously care what the fans think?

[11 11]

DLibrasnow you are right about that 1980's statement about everyone saying Roger Moore was the best , Bond and that is how it is now with Brosnan. I also agree with the in 10 years time people's opinions will change.

The reason is because I remember reading once a Bond web-site how in the 60's and early 70's Connery always won the who is the best Bond polls over Lazenby and Moore. But then how in the late 70's and 80's Roger Moore always won the polls over Dalton, Lazenby and Connery.

Now we have Brosnan winning polls over them all.

I think the conclusion is quite obvious.

People are just mindless sheep. It will be funny when most likely High Jackman is Bond say 10 years from now, and everyone and all these polls list him as so much better than Brosnan etc.

Just looking at the threads on CBN you can see that even supposed die hard Bond fans, very few actually care what the actor did, rather than just oh yea I like him etc.

Bottom line is, even though most the users on this forum disagree all the 5 Bonds were good. They are different so people can have a favorite.

Hasn't anyone else noticed that?

Some users here post Roger Moore is the worst Bond, others he was the best.

Some say Dalton was worst, other Dalton was best

Some say Lazenby was worst, other say lazenby was best

Some say Connery was worst, others he was the best

Some say Brosnan was the worst, others he was the best

Bottom line is who cares? And despite this insistance that people have NONE of them were bad. I mean some posts you read like Lazenby could not act or like Brosnan can not act or Moore was not believable??

Are these people nuts? If they think that is bad acting then they must only watch the movies of the best actors, De Neiro etc, and must never watch TV. Have you people ever seen a bad movie or a play? Hell lets not even talk about amatuer acting. Please saying Lazenby or Brosnan are bad actors is quite ridiculous.

Because very few actors in very few movies ever act as well as Lazenby and Brosnan if you really want to be truthful about it. Don't believe me go the video store and start renting random films and take notes and compare. Guess what? Then you will see bad acting.

And if Roger Moore was so unbeleivable as opposed to? Like any of the Bonds are believeable saving the world, killing 150 people with machine guns with his hand pistol, taking apart the nukes, flying planes, beating up 7 foot 400 pound men, winning fights with 8 men at once, always getting every woman, no matter what. Like every woman would sleep with any of them? And that is true because again we should all know that in the real world a man just deoes not say hey let's %^&* and get it on with the top babe around.

The point is such arguments as so and so is better is just that arguing. Why can people not see this?

There is not one single thing about any of the 5 Bonds that would make them noticeably inferior to any of the others or better. Other than just a personal taste.

[DLibrasnow]

Originally posted by 11 11
DLibrasnow  you are right about that 1980's statement about everyone saying Roger Moore was the best , Bond and that is how it is now with Brosnan. I also agree with the in 10 years time people's opinions will change.

Even though I think the current Bond could not act his way out of a cardboard box, I appreciate the opinion you gave in your post 11 11. I think peoples opinions change and I think to a great extent that old saying holds true -- that a persons favorite Bond is usually the one they saw first
(Desmond Llewelyn was famous for responding to the question as to "who is the best Bond" with the line "Whoever you saw first."

[General Koskov]

Originally posted by brendan007
why are these two films being compared anyway. they are different types of bond films, like comparing FRWL to moonraker.

This is the myth I've been trying to dispel: that there are (at least) two categories of Bond films.

There aren't. It's fair game to compare FRWL and Moonraker. They aren't so different. Same hero, some same characters, boat chases, explosions, Venizia, villain who sits in chairs all the time, with rediculously-dressed henchmen, dogs (not sure about this one)...

Anyway, the point is that if one starts to segregate Bond films, Eon could come up with a real stinker where Bond saves the Earth from being smashed apart by the Moon, and they we'd say: 'But it's a "space Bond" so it's okay that it's rediculous.

Also on my list of myths: the cinematic and literary Bonds are 'different'...

[manitou007]

I think DAD might be remembered as a sort of tribute to the fantasy Bond films of the 70's, whereas TLD might be remembered as one of the films which helped kick the series out of the campy direction that AVTAK took.

Generally, I don't think there is such a thing as a bad Bond film. Some films are better than others, but all of them have good points.

There is one question you should ask yourself though: what will be remembered: Die Another Day or xXx?

[Jriv71]

Only a week late, that's OK.
The Living Daylights is absolutely one of my favs.
So is FRWL, so is GF, so is OHMSS, so is TSWLM, so is FYEO, so is...
The point is there are 20.

20!

Make your own top 20 list. Can #17 even come close to #1 or 2? No. Does that mean it's bad? No. (Unless it's DAF.) Think about it. Did they strike out with #15 on your list. It's probably #1 on somebody else's list. (Unless it's DAF.)
My take: I loved the beginning of DAD. Loved it. The end was just how you end an action movie. Lots of action. Hell, they even threw in a helicopter sequence and a boat chase at the end of FRWL, probably because they thought the public was too stupid to follow the novel exactly. I won't nitpick. Was the ending of DAD as good as TLD? Absolutely not. But are there 20 great endings? I don't think so. What are the 5 best endings?
And the idea that Brosnan or somebody else can't act is not fair. If afetr 40 years, they've run out of ideas, it's not the actor's fault. I don't think they have necessarily, but you get the point. Eye of the Beholder.
That's the great thing about Bond. There is such a wide variety of movies to choose from, that at any time you could just sit down and watch any of them.

(Unless it's DAF.)

[Sir James]

Die Another Day IS a James Bond movie, there is no doubt about it. It explored all the aspects of the 007 character, from dark Fleming aspects, to the OTT action. It is the ideal blend of both that makes this something TLD only dreams of. Not to say TLD is Bad, I do enjoy it, and would take it over any Moore film, any day.

Its funny how this post has to come right out and slam DAD directly. It shows something odd, are the "serious" Bond fans so aware of the mass appeal of DAD that they are afraid of what that bring? Perhaps Bond fans have begun to realize that this is the better way, and the way that future Bonds will look like, and they are afraid. Otherwise, why come right out and attack DAD?

[Adam]

Originally posted by Sir James
Its funny how this post has to come right out and slam DAD directly. It shows something odd, are the "serious" Bond fans so aware of the mass appeal of DAD that they are afraid of what that bring? Perhaps Bond fans have begun to realize that this is the better way, and the way that future Bonds will look like, and they are afraid. Otherwise, why come right out and attack DAD?

Yes, they're scared, you hit the nail right on the head*
Everyone slams it because it was a pretty bad movie.

*-Note sarcasm


Anyway, I agree that The Living Daylights is better, but I don't really see the need for a comparison...why not compare Die Another Day to another movie that was equally as bad, like The Man With the Golden Gun, for example?